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Rioting spreading through London & to other English cities.

 
 
msolga
 
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 08:22 pm
British A2Kers, can you give us more information & your views on the alarming visions of rioting spreading throughout in London which are all over our newspapers today?
I understand there are now fresh riots in Liverpool, Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham & Leeds.

If we are to believe newspaper reports, much of the troubles have been caused by "anti-police" sentiments, youthful vandals, racism, looters & out of control, unpupervised holidaying school children, gangs, copy-cat rioters .... it is really hard to understand what is happening & why.

Can you supply any insight from your perspective?

Quote:
London burns as police battle looters
Correspondent Philip Williams and staff/ABC news
Updated August 09, 2011 11:26:11

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2830196-3x2-700x467.jpg

Rioters are battling police in the streets of London, with clashes breaking out across the British capital and more disturbances in other English cities.

A third day of rioting in London started with youths hurling missiles at police in Hackney, in the north-east of the city, with buildings and vehicles set on fire and looters targeting shops and other businesses.

As night fell the looting spread across the city to suburbs including Peckham, Clapham Junction, Notting Hill, Brixton, Croydon, Camden, Ealing, and Bethnal Green, as police struggled to gain control of the streets and prime minister David Cameron was forced to cut short his holiday to return to the capital.

Scotland Yard's Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin admitted "significant disorder" was breaking out in a number of areas of the city. He implored parents to take control of their children and urged local residents to clear the streets to help police do their job.

He said the riots, which began over the weekend after protests about the police shooting of a man in Tottenham, were examples of "gratuitous violence" and warned that CCTV footage would be used to identify rioters.

The BBC said the latest clashes broke out after police stopped and searched a man in Hackney.

Further north hundreds of rioters attacked police in Liverpool while there were reports of a police station being set on fire and more than 80 arrests in Birmingham, and mobs of youths on the rampage in Leeds.

British government officials have described the rioters as opportunistic criminals and said the violence, the worst in London for years, would not affect preparations for next summer's Olympic Games. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-08/fresh-riots-spread-across-london/2829730



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Type: Discussion • Score: 42 • Views: 41,018 • Replies: 939

 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 08:26 pm
@msolga,

Quote:
Prime Minister David Cameron is returning early from his summer holiday to deal with the continuing riots in London.

A Downing Street spokeswoman said Mr Cameron was flying back from Italy overnight to chair the government's Cobra emergency committee.

London Mayor Boris Johnson has also cut short his family holiday and will be back Tuesday lunchtime.

It comes amid a third night of violence and looting across the city.

The BBC's Andrew Neil, writing on Twitter, said the riots were the prime minister's "first real crisis", adding "now we will find out if Mr Cameron is composed of the stuff of leadership".

Labour leader Ed Miliband is returning early from his holiday in Devon because of the riots.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14444067
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 08:41 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
London riots: Timeline and map of violence

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/uk/11/london_riots/img/london_riots976.jpg

People have been left homeless after a night of riots on the streets of Tottenham. Buildings were set alight and shops looted after a peaceful demonstration turned violent. Looting spread to other areas on Sunday. Here is a timeline of what happened.

Thursday 4 August:

18:15 BST - Mark Duggan, 29, is shot dead by police at Ferry Lane, Tottenham.

The death occurs during an operation where specialist firearm officers and officers from Operation Trident, the unit which deals with gun crime in the African and Caribbean communities, are attempting to carry out an arrest.

Mr Duggan is a passenger in a minicab and is shot after an apparent exchange of fire. A police officer's radio is later found to have a bullet lodged in it.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) announces it will investigate the incident and later says it believes two shots were fired by police. It also confirms that an illegal firearm was recovered from the scene. ....<cont>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 08:45 pm
From the Guardian:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2011/8/7/1312753370731/08.08.11.-Tottenham-riot--002.jpg
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 09:04 pm
@msolga,
I just heard some "expert" (sorry, I didn't catch his name) talking on ABC radio about the division between the "haves" & "have nots" in British society as the cause of such wide-spread rioting, however the troubles started.
It is hard to know from such a long way away, but I do know that things are very tough for the poor in Britain right now ...
Anyway, I'll leave this here for the moment & hope that you A2Kers in the UK can provide us with more information, plus your perceptions of what is occurring.
It does sound very frightening.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2011 11:47 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

It does sound very frightening.


It does.

But actually and unfortunately, it has happened elsewhere (in other countries) before. With very similar reasons.

We, we 'normal' people, are surprised about the extent of "copycat" crimes (here: riots).
That happened before as well - only on a very smaller level - not by spreading the word via mobiles but just by mouth. (My own experiences from my time as probation officer and social worker with the police.)

Three days now seem to be quite long, I think. I do hope, they'll find the some tactics how to end this mess.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 12:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Three days now seem to be quite long, I think. I do hope, they'll find the some tactics how to end this mess.


"Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Nottingham and Bristol saw violence." ... reports say: very similar to what happened in France in the past.
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 12:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It was a bit scary yesterday. While driving to an errand in my car a typical british yob screamed at me "how come you paki is driving a nice car" ...

Rioting was happening just 2 miles away from where I live and it was not pleasant.

I am so glad to be leaving
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 01:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But actually and unfortunately, it has happened elsewhere (in other countries) before. With very similar reasons.

By which you'd mean (in my own words) "ghettos of unemployed young people whose futures hold little hope or opportunity for them", Walter?
I don't want to put words into your mouth, so I'd be very interested to hear more about your perception of the "very similar reasons".

Quote:
We, we 'normal' people, are surprised about the extent of "copycat" crimes (here: riots).
That happened before as well - only on a very smaller level - not by spreading the word via mobiles but just by mouth. (My own experiences from my time as probation officer and social worker with the police.)

Three days now seem to be quite long, I think. I do hope, they'll find the some tactics how to end this mess.

Amen to that!
And yes, 3 days & spreading fast is very worrying indeed.
But I hope it doesn't involve even more repression.
That might only escalate the situation.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 01:45 am
As if the MET needed another slam on them, it is claimed by some that their policing work was botched from the start....

Quote:
The Metropolitan police's embattled public order unit, CO11, once prided itself on being the world leader in containing disorder. At 3am yesterday, its exhausted officers slept in police vans lined up in Enfield town centre, bruised, exhausted and, for the second night running, entirely out-manoeuvred.

For hours they had been chasing groups of youths around Enfield, Ponders End and Edmonton, in north London, using dogs and batons to disperse anyone seen looting shops.

Any doubt that police were unable to control the violence was dispelled hours later, around 5pm yesterday, amid further outbreaks of looting in Hackney and other areas of the capital in broad daylight.

The home secretary, Theresa May, who flew home from holiday to deal with the fallout from the riots, will have asked commanders of the UK's largest police force: how did you lose control of London?

For the third day running, CO11's territorial support group (TSG), nicknamed the "Muscle of the Met", suffered the humiliation of requiring support from colleagues in neighbouring forces
.
.
.
Dr Michael Rosie, a senior lecturer in sociology at the University of Edinburgh, said: "A key lesson to be learned, as in all such instances, is that communication is fundamental. Police seemed taken by surprise by the rapid escalation in Tottenham – that suggests that they need to be more proactive in talking to, liaising with, the community."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/london-riots-met-police-tactics
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 01:51 am
@the prince,
Quote:
It was a bit scary yesterday. While driving to an errand in my car a typical british yob screamed at me "how come you paki is driving a nice car" ...

Rioting was happening just 2 miles away from where I live and it was not pleasant.

I am so glad to be leaving.

That would be terrifying, to be personally targeted like that, G.
Please take care & stay out of harm's way.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 03:02 am
@msolga,
The whole thing is making me sick.

This isn't about Duggan - that was the catalyst... what has happened since is about violence and looting.

This about a small number of thugs who have taken advantage of that situation - the looting and arson attacks are to tie up the services so that the thugs can incite more looting and attacks.

Our police officers are on the back foot - they are getting injured and we won't know as yet if people have died in the blazes. The communities are crying out to the kids who are doing this to get this to stop. The kids are the ones who are inciting this - but it's not just kids who are looting and burning now - there's no age range there and there's no colour boundaries - opportunism without any boundaries. It is spreading to other cities.

Yes, they have grievances, yes, there's a lot of people not happy about a lot of things, there is disallusion - we all know that, I don't disagree with some of their views - but this is so sad, people are scared for their lives. Opportunism and thieving all organised by the use of mobile phones - police don't have the resources to stop this happening. The police don't have the resources to lock up the perpatrators, leave alone catch all the folk who are on CCTV and can be seen looting... sheesh - mob control.


Every time I see our Home Secretary with her poncy little smile saying the most ridiculous platitudes ... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

robust policing - robust my arse - the police can't touch them without then themselves being done for something. Whatever the police do, it will come back on them. They have to put up with so much crahp and they cannot respond to protect the community, other than standing there in their gear. They need to be empowered by the government right now to allow them to bring peace and order back to the streets.

Cobra meets this morning so they'll no doubt faff around the table for a couple of hours.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr





0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 03:33 am
they just showed a video of an injured man who had fallen on the street, bleeding and dazed...

a black fella went to help him up which genuinely appears as tho it was to assist him - a large white fella then went into the backpack that the injured man was actually wearing on his back, calmly unzipped it and took out the contents - discarding what he didn't want and took the rest


this person is quite simply a criminal - this is about taking what you can any way you can with no consequences - politics and sh!t doesn't come into it - b*stard! It's disgusting. Breaking into peoples homes who have locked themselves in and just looting and destroying their homes. People are petrified - there are no police to help them, they are all out on the streets having bricks and bottles and anything to hand thrown at them, even a car trying to run a police officer down.

Violence - thuggery - to nick clothing, electronics, anything they can get their hands on etc...

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 03:41 am
@Izzie,
If the youth are not able to buy into a decent way of life they tend to be willing to burn everthing down, it has always been thus, and we in the west now have far too many of these potential arsonists standing around......it is not only the Arabs and Africans who have this problem.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 03:42 am
@Izzie,
I can clearly hear your genuine distress, Iz.
But from a long, long way away .... I'm thinking what the **** is actually going on there? And why?

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 03:45 am
@msolga,
... and you alone are not expected to offer all the answers, OK?
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 04:50 am
@msolga,
I'll be bavk... have to go and get some stuff done - but yes, it is distressing watching peoples lives being destroyed and that apparent complete disregard for the folk whom they are harming.

I am a huge advocate of the police and the services who strive to help keep order - I know there is corruption, I myself have my grievances and tho my life is a bubble and easy so speak - I do completely understand how the system has failed many people ... but I will never condone this sort of action



So sad, it's just so very sad

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 05:19 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

By which you'd mean (in my own words) "ghettos of unemployed young people whose futures hold little hope or opportunity for them", Walter?
I don't want to put words into your mouth, so I'd be very interested to hear more about your perception of the "very similar reasons".


There was indeed the killing of this Duncan (?) and the following, peaceful demonstration by his family, neighbours and friends as the start of all.

Such looting, such criminal aggression doesn't start from the one minute to the following. There's a lot of behind it (frustration, jobless, jealousy, and a lot more ...)

Well, msolga, I've been in Paris three or four years ago, talked with demonstrating students both at universities as well as at the Place Saint-Michel. And when I'd finished my work (actually within a larger police station, some research work in the French police's archive), I eye witnessed one of the largest demonstrations Paris had seen the last decades.

It's just my personal feeling (more or less sourced by the couple of years I've worked with this clientèle), but I don't think that more demonstration of power will do any good.
At least not, when you want to solve the situation for longer than just some days/weeks.


As an aside: yes, there's been a lot of "disruption" within the UK police forces, not only the MET. And the work done by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) seems to be a bit ... hastily done.
But I don't think that this has a lot to do with why those riots started, not directly at least.



When you look at some comments on various blogs (of newspapers, tv/radio stations), "close youth centres", "shoot them and then look at the possible causes" .... these 'informations' spread as well among those youth.
And I doubt, if such encourages them to stop their criminal acts.
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 05:28 am
@Izzie,
Quote:
they just showed a video of an injured man who had fallen on the street, bleeding and dazed...

a black fella went to help him up which genuinely appears as tho it was to assist him - a large white fella then went into the backpack that the injured man was actually wearing on his back, calmly unzipped it and took out the contents - discarding what he didn't want and took the rest



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNh-fTv1Gm8

No trial, no judge, no jury - throw him in the jail for the rest of his life - he does not deserve to be on the streets
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Aug, 2011 07:16 am
Check this out......these girls are not fit to breed..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424
0 Replies
 
 

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