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Rioting spreading through London & to other English cities.

 
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:06 am
@izzythepush,
Are you watching the rabble in the House of Commons?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr





hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:07 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:



Mysteryman needs to be reminded that this country is a sovereign nation, not the 51st State. Our politicians make the decisions, thank you very much. We do not need troops shooting people on our streets.
we will keep your comments with in the contex of the Sun polling that has a huge majority of you Brits wanting the military called in, and over 30% wanting live rounds fired on the scum.....
Izzie
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:19 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I found this article yesterday.
I truly hope that the British army is given shoot to kill orders against these punks and rioters.


Hello J - long time no see Very Happy

I was one of those who questioned why the Army weren't being brought in on Sun/Mon as our police were not in the control and I found it terrifying just watching it in the safety of my home 200 miles away. It was awful.

Even now, seeing this is just dreadful...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuqeQaEatiI&feature=player_embedded

However, now, having spoken to an RAFcopper, I am glad the army wasn't brought in. Guns, without permits/licence are illegal in this country - I would like our country to remain like this. As opposed as I am to capital punishment, I would also hate for bullets to be flying around and even one innocent person being killed.

Of course, for a lot of folk right now, the catalyst to this rioting was the shooting of Mark Duggan. Until the evidence has come together and the IPCC reports on this - we do not and will not know whether there was wrong-doing on the part of the police marksman.

However, the fact that there was an illegal weapon - whether used or not - was present, ended up with a man being shot.

I am listening to lots of arguments for and against the argument of arming our police or even possibly, the Army, at the moment. Obviously, I have spent a lot of time on an American forum and have lived in the USA - listening to the Brits talk about our country being allowed guns as the US allows - well, so far, I'm seeing a majority of people (ordinary folk) who still do not want legal guns on our streets and do not wish for the army to be called in.

I'm sure as time goes on this will be discussed further amongst the general public. If violence erupts again, perhaps public opinion will change. People are very angry with the level of violence - we all need to calm down now.

Hopefully - HOPEFULLY - this violence will now have ended. I surely hope so...

0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:20 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

we will keep your comments with in the contex of the Sun polling that has a huge majority of you Brits wanting the military called in, and over 30% wanting live rounds fired on the scum.....



ragtime!
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:26 am
@Izzie,
Izzie wrote:




ragtime!
but are they wrong? Maybe the country has moved more to the right than you are aware? This move has been a theme in Europe of late....as well as in America.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:31 am
@hawkeye10,
The Sun is as reliable as Fox News
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:32 am
@Izzie,
Izzie wrote:

Are you watching the rabble in the House of Commons?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Watching some of it, but I'm doing a lot of laundry. The Kid's off to Poland on Friday
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:34 am
Instead of "shoot to kill" other methods are being considered:

Quote:
U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said Thursday that Scotland Yard and intelligence agencies are considering a ban on social media for those known to be plotting violence.

"We are working with the Police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality," Cameron said in a speech before the House of Commons.

Source: PCMag.com, August 11, 2011
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:39 am
@hawkeye10,
In my opinion, the public is very angry and as we have never known the Army on our streets, we really would not know how this would affect our country.

I can only say what I feel, and from what I've read and hear, the general concensus would not wish for the Army to be on the streets or using live ammo.

As I stated - if violence erupted again, I don't know. Perhaps people would cry out for the Army.

As much as I despise our politicians - I admit that I would not like to make these decisions. That may make me a lemming, or weak, or - but I wouldn't like to make the call on things I don't know enough about. I don't know about the psychology of having troops on the street - but I was brought up seeing troops on the streets of NI and that did not instill calm in me, but caused more fear as it was long-term. Again, I was hundreds of miles away from that.


I will repeat tho that I do think Joe Public is not prepared to tolerate this violence etc. I think the public will try to ensure this will not continue.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:43 am
@Izzie,
If they put troops on the street, I'll start making molotov cocktails.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 09:55 am
@izzythepush,
I don't mean that philosophical anarchists are violent, and I guess I miswrote that, but that, assuming the report re the hospital has any truth (I didn't read the article), the push at the Birmingham hospital seems especially deliberate/planned and the target is particularly worrying to me, making me wonder about what I consider a different breed, violent anarchists. My knowledge of anarchy in philosophy or in action is scant, so I guess I'll be quiet about it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 10:00 am
@izzythepush,
Well, when a country's army is shooting at its very own citizens ...
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 10:21 am
Would it stop the rioting if there were free showings of Pygmalion? Henry Higgins teaching elocution (The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.) might be helpful?
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 10:23 am
It does not appear that the lawbreakers can be easily categorized, which makes coming up with overgeneralized explanations, or root causes, for the rioting somewhat pointless. Diverse groups and types of people seem to have become involved for various reasons.
Quote:
For the first time, Mr. Cameron said police commanders had acknowledged that they had misjudged the situation at first and deployed too few officers.

“Initially the police treated the situation too much as a public order issue, rather than essentially one of crime,” he told the summoned lawmakers, blaming a wide social breakdown for the violence.

“This is not about poverty, it’s about culture,” he said, “a culture that glorifies violence, shows disrespect to authority, and says everything about rights but nothing about responsibilities." ...

While many Britons had initially blamed the violence on unemployed youth, one surprise was the presence in courts of young men and women with regular jobs among the riot suspects lined up in police wagons outside courthouses in London and other cities. That raised questions about why they had been caught up in the kind of mayhem that has traditionally drawn on an underclass of alienated young people, with no jobs and few prospects.

Many of those who were remanded for trial appeared to come from just those kinds of backgrounds — evidence, as some commentators saw it, that the root causes of the disorders lay in social deprivation and despair. But those who stood before the courts for bail hearings in London, many of them still in their jeans and hooded sweatshirts, included a graphic designer, a postal employee, a dental assistant, a teaching aide, a forklift driver and a youth worker.

One 19-year-old woman was listed on court documents as living in a converted farmhouse in a leafy, upmarket area of rural Kent that is part of what Londoners call the stockbroker belt. A 22-year-old woman gave her address as an upscale block of flats in a gentrified neighborhood of Hackney, one of the worst-hit riot areas in London. Local residents said that many of the residents of the apartments, which are valued at about $500,000, belonged to a community of affluent, middle-class people with jobs in London’s news media and art world.

“There are pockets of our society that are not just broken but, frankly, sick,” Mr. Cameron said on Wednesday. “The sight of those young people running down streets, smashing windows, taking property, looting, laughing as they go, the problem of that is a complete lack of responsibility, a lack of proper parenting, a lack of proper upbringing, a lack of proper ethics, a lack of proper morals,” he continued. “That is what we need to change. There is no one trigger that can change these things. It’s about parenting, it’s about discipline in schools, it’s about making sure we have a welfare system that does not reward idleness. It is all of those things.”

For now, the political sparring has taken a back seat to more immediate concerns, especially the signs of rising tensions between ethnic groups in neighborhoods under siege. Earlier in the week, Turkish groups in Hackney and other London neighborhoods began arming themselves with aluminum baseball bats and other weapons to protect their homes and businesses. In the neighborhood of Southall, a crowd of Sikhs gathered at a temple where their spiritual leader vowed to fight back against any groups that threatened the temple or Sikh neighborhoods.

Similar vows were made by Muslim groups in a wide array of mixed-race communities in London and in at least two other cities with large Muslim populations — Birmingham and Manchester.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/world/europe/12britain.html?pagewanted=3&hpp/

For this to escalate into open ethnic and racial conflict would only make an already horrible situation worse.

0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  6  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 10:40 am
@msolga,
Daivid Cameron, the pink one, has called this society "sick" because of the riots.

He's pointing at the little rioter figure, looting/feeding at the trough.

Meanwhile, at the big end of the same trough, industrial fat cats, city bankers and financiers are feeding as usual, along with politicians (the expenses scandal) and News of the World management (cronies of Cameron) and Police.

Message: the City enriches itself and robs us blind, and disregards morality if not the Law. When the underclass try to help themselves in not too dissimilar terms, the prime minister expresses the ourrage which was conspicuous by its absence earlier.

True dat, a picture being worth 1000 words.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 10:59 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

... When the underclass try to help themselves in not too dissimilar terms, the prime minister expresses the ourrage which was conspicuous by its absence earlier...



It is in "dissimilar terms," since a not small percentage of the "underclass" does not always have the education, social mores of the non-underclass. I will leave out breeding; however, that too is a real concept in a society that has a Monarchy. Please use standard semantics.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 11:06 am
@Foofie,
What would be helpful, would be if you shut your ignorant mouth.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 11:15 am
@ossobuco,
I wasn't accusing you of anything pet. The Daily Mail has a track record of cherry picking stories that serve their political agenda. I've not heard this story anywhere else, on either the BBC or C4.Neither have I read about it in the Guardian. I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 11:16 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

Daivid Cameron, the pink one,


A new nickname methinks.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2011 11:22 am
@izzythepush,
Thanks. I still think I misspoke, in that for the first time I started to consider if that one instance (if true) it might be actual violent anarchy. It's a fact that I'm pretty anarchy ignorant - I've had friends who in the past had mentioned being philosophic anarchists and none of them are or were violent at all, so I'm not talking broad brush.

Ah, well, I'm escaping the intensity of this for a bit and following....
golf.
0 Replies
 
 

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