42
   

Rioting spreading through London & to other English cities.

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 01:15 pm
@McTag,
The second speaker is a cop however and feel free to talk yourself into prison oh by the way it is a crime on the US Federal level and in most states to lied to the police however they are free to lied to you all they care to.

Second off hands I can think of a numbers of people who was never found guilty of the crime they was being investigated for but instead serve time for lying to the police so if they had kept their mouth shut they would had never been convicted of any crime.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 01:15 pm
@Izzie,
Quote:
A lot of our problem here is about GREED. You cannot compare that to what is happening in countries like Syria and Libya - those folk are not fighting for some negative GREED, they are fighting for their lives, their aspirations.
So I have heard but no one has come up with a good arguement for this position. In all cases what we are seeing is that those on the bottom are refusing to stay quiet about what those on the top are doing to them, they are demanding more......and the only arguement I have heard for why this is not the same thing why I can not compare them is because the different rebels are not the same. I have already made the argument (so far not refuted) that they are the same because the rebels position in the respective societies are the same, that the only reason the British rebels are better off than the Libyan/Egypian/Syrian et al rebels is that the country is overall more wealthy.

Are you under the impression that the Middle Eastern rebels will be fine if only they can get the rule of law and and Constitution, that this is about system and not them demanding their share of the bounty?? Look at Egypt which is making big moves to install law and democracy and yet almost as soon as Murbarak is gone they are back in the square protesting because expected improvements to their standard of living have not happened yet, they want their better life now which is defined as having more stuff.

Are you under the impression that the British rebels are not oppressed? Watching Cameron these days should disabuse you of this notion, but if not look at the class structure, look at the lack of movement between the classes in the UK. As I have mentioned before you dont need a great deal of movement but those at the bottom need to feel like there is some justification for hoping that they can move up. We have that in American which accounts for why the Corporate class continually gets away with their plundering, because while the chances are tiny those who are being robbed hope to one day be in the corporate class, or their kids will. But when you have no hope of over being the robber being robbed is straight oppression, it is much harder to take, and this is where your throw away class is...they have nothing but a check from the government, which can be cut at any time and now is being cut, and they have no hope of ever having anything.

It is when the hope runs out, it is when the anger over runs the fear that we see the oppressed rise up in revolt, we see in in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Tunisa, Jordan, .....and London. Cameron is trying to put more fear in place which is a good dictator move, it tends to work.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 01:28 pm
It might be the first time in these young people's lives that they didn't feel like a cog in a machine.
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 02:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

..and the only arguement I have heard for why this is not the same thing why I can not compare them is because the different rebels are not the same. I have already made the argument (so far not refuted)


Don't you understand English?

Quote:
Are you under the impression that the British rebels are not oppressed?


They're not rebels you ******* idiot.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 03:48 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
That man is a lawyer. I was referring to human beings.
Tell us, Mr. McTag: Are u as intelligent
and well spoken as either of those lecturers??????

Do u mean to imply that the lawyer is a SUPERhuman being??

Did u even take the time
to listen to either of the lectures, before u offered your comment??

Inquiring minds want to know.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 03:51 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
It might be the first time in these young people's lives that they didn't feel like a cog in a machine.
Spendius, are u rioting??
Did u get anything good ?????





David
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 03:52 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
No Dave, I think he was saying that lawyers are aresholes, but you believe what you like.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:22 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
The second speaker is a cop however and feel free to talk yourself into prison oh by the way it is a crime on the US Federal level and in most states to lied to the police however they are free to lied to you all they care to.

Second off hands I can think of a numbers of people who was never found guilty of the crime they was being investigated for but instead serve time for lying to the police so if they had kept their mouth shut they would had never been convicted of any crime.
Bill, candor moves me to say
that u have rendered a very valuable service
to our fellow denizens of this forum.
Those were BEAUTIFUL, beautifully rendered lectures.

I consider myself to be a fairly decent lecturer,
but I don 't believe that I 'd have done so good a job as the Law Professor did.

KUDOS, to u Bill! KUDOS!!!!!

I thought that was a very ADMIRABLE JOB
in FINDING those lectures. Will u reveal how u found them
and how u posted them (to a computer-ignorant person, such as myself???)

A few years ago, I saw a true TV show, concerning confessions.
It involved a very old disappearance of a US Naval officer
on board his ship, many decades in the past. The (confessed)
murderer had subsequently become an attorney (an exceptionally stupid one).

The police asked him to come to the station (ostensibly)
to help them in an unrelated matter. Then thay began
to question him qua the disappearance of the naval officer,
in the distant past, from the ship on which thay both served.

Thay had absolutely NO evidence.
Even the ship itself no longer existed.
Yet, thay got that fool to discuss it at length and to CONFESS.
His stupidity was astonishing. All he needed to do was SAY NOTHING.

Maybe he had a guilty conscience and a secret lust for punishment. I dunno.





David

OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:33 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
No Dave, I think he was saying that lawyers are aresholes,
but you believe what you like.
Let's c:
I believe that Ares was the Greek counterpart
of the Roman god of war, Mars. I dunno how that relates to holes.
Maybe thay made holes with their respective swords.

Lawyers act as warriors for their clients, both offensive & defensive.

Did u see the video lectures???
Thay comprised very well rendered legal advice.

If the English police catch u
with the clothing from the naked Englishmen,
u r well advised not to confess about it.





David
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:36 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You pick my up for a typo when you write like that? You're wrong, ares wasn't the Greek god of war it was Ares, but an arse is always an arse.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:43 pm

Goodness, its been a while since we 've heard from Rebecca.

I hope that she is still OK.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:44 pm
@izzythepush,
Did u get a good price for the clothes ??

or are u just going to supplement your wardrobe ?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Spendius, are u rioting??
Did u get anything good ?????


I don't need anything they have in the shops.

When I got home from the pub, which was in high old swinging mood for a birfday with free hot-pot, sardine style, there was a female presenting a series of sporting highlights in which not one female was taking part. Then the review of tomorrow's papers had a Reverend Sally Hitchiner, complete with dog collar, eyelashes and comforting bulges in her cardigan, commenting upon our new "Back to Basics" approach pioneered by John Major before he was caught shagging the Minister of Agriculture.

The recent orgy of anarchy has not been mentioned anywhere I have been all day. Nor that the cops need more pampering. It's a TV event in the main. And not bad considering. I'll give it 4.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:47 pm
@izzythepush,
I 'm just glad that I don 't have
any weeping, naked men on MY conscience.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:51 pm
@spendius,

Quote:
Spendius, are u rioting??
Did u get anything good ?????
spendius wrote:
I don't need anything they have in the shops.
I 've heard that thay have some good tailors there.





David
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Are you under the impression that the British rebels are not oppressed?


I have read... and reread and rereread your post... and I just feel that you are not living in the same as world as I am. Confused

I mean, I know I live in a happy possibly-naive bubble... but your bubble is so dark and black and gosh, it must be like being in a permanent nightmare wondering each day when the world is going to end - do you really seriously equate what has gone on in London and around England, to what is going on in Libya?

Hawkeye, really, I don't get that at all. You believe those people are fighting for their lives and families and having to go the Western World calling for help simply because they want more money, or wealth, as you put it? You equate that to the riots in London? You equate our council estates to Benghazi, Tripoli, Gharyan, Brega . Seriously???? Shocked



I do agree about the bottom of the pit having no hope - as I said to you before I understand a level of anger and hopelessness that I don't think you could possibly understand unless you have lived with that (you may have lived with that, I wouldn't know) - but I do know that personally within my family. I understand no hope from a young person to the point of wishing to be dead - and I understand that there are young people out there who feel they are the dregs of society, that they are the worthless and have been thrown away and not cared about by anyone - so please don't believe that I am that naive - because I know that first hand.

Do I equate that and those feelings to what is happening to the people in Libya or Syria? No! Does that mean I don't feel sympathetic and empathetic towards how those young people feel in our country, even tho my life is not like that? No!

Does it make it less of burden what situation you are in when you feel like that down and out? Probably not, not to those who feel that way. Would anyone of our so called British Rebels be able to live for 5 minutes on the streets of Libya and Syria. I. shouldn't. think. so.

Good lawd man, REALLY?

They may feel oppressed (as a word), those people here who feel they have no hope - but I truly believe that their "no hope" is not the same as the "no hope" that has caused the rebels to fight in Libya and Syria.

In the UK we do have housing, we do have benefits, we do have an NHS, we do have clothes and food and hospitals and schools, and and and and and and and ...you know exactly what kind of a society we live in - we have those forms of "wealth" - we do not have a dictatorship / government /ruling body killing us if we disagree with what they say - as is happening in Syria and Libya - we don't.
We don't have tanks bombarding the hell out of our citizens for stealing a pack of gum or 12 bottles of water - heck, we had police who stood on the streets in their thousands, the majority unarmed - to try and keep peace - not set up a warzone.

Your comparisons are not the same. I do not and will not believe that you can compare the two.

We may feel our government has a stranglehold over us - but then we don't live in Wonderland do we and we haven't claimed to - and I don't know any country that is perfect, let alone the USA after the shennanigans over the last week with your voting for bills - but we do have a democracy and we are doing the best to address it through addressing the corruption within the government/media etc, as best we can.

We do not have "rebels" on our streets willing to die for their looting spree - however, we have communities coming together after a rioting spree where 5 people died; after idiots torched places for "the fun of it" because they could, who have pushed over wheely bins and set fire to them and smashed windows and taken phones and electrical goods and so forth, gangs joining together - honour amongst thieves!!! BUT NOT "rebels" in the street fighting to live, to keep their families from being raped and murdered because they speak out, who are to trying overthrow the dicatorships in their countries.

Many of those gangs who were involved I would hazard a guess to say that they had illegal guns on them. I didn't see them using them to shoot our officers. I do see the rebels in Libya who are fighting for their lives tho and people dying every day.

I believe you show a lack of respect to what our forces who are sent to these countries do and the reasons they do it. That surprises me as your wife is in the military. The job they are doing would NOT be done on the streets of the USA when you have riots.

Oh, I'm too tired right now to even make a decent argument.

I think you are wrong and have refuted your argument. It simply is beyond me.

We have a voting system in the UK - just as you do in the US - and tho it isn't perfect, it's still a democracy.

I simply cannot agree with you that in the UK we have 'rebels' that equate to the rebels in Libya, Syria etc.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:53 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I've been too busy following Nigel's career to pay much attention.
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0018/56/CB/56CB5247AAE88A8EDA2474_Large.jpg
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'm just glad that I don 't have
any weeping, naked men on MY conscience.


What on earth have you and your NRA buddies been up to?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:56 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I've been too busy following Nigel's career to pay much attention.
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0018/56/CB/56CB5247AAE88A8EDA2474_Large.jpg
I don 't know who Nigel is,
but after u followed him,
I hope that u did not beat him up and strip him.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2011 04:58 pm
@Izzie,
You're so sweet you know, reading all of Hawkeye's post and giving a brilliant point by point riposte. It won't do any good, he won't be told, he's like some fuckwit messiah.
 

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