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Feminism (as seen by the GOP)

 
 
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 08:50 pm
Are feminists men hating, militant, lesbians like the GOP portray them?

I seem to think the GOP hate more men (gays) than feminists.

Let's discuss this issue at length.

I consider myself a male feminist and I am appalled by the abhorrent sexism of the GOP.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 9,228 • Replies: 226

 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 09:10 pm
@TheCobbler,
Sure, I will take this. I am politically progressive, pro-LGBT rights, pro gay-marriage and pro-choice.

And I am upset I am upset by the rhetoric and politics of the current generation of feminists. What feminism has become is a ideological narrative, a mythology, that is applied to every situation without regard to the facts. And this narrative can't be questioned, any legitimate attempt is met with the harshest of personal attack.

I can give many examples.

- The woman who videotaped herself for a day and claims to be harassed when Black men say "hello" to her.
- The abandonment and denial of male survivors of sexual abuse.
- The ridiculous attempt to rewrite and reinterpret consensual sexual behavior, and the choice to put politics above sound policy in addressing sexual assault.
- The rejection and manipulation of science for flawed political goals.
- The rewriting of history to support the narrative that men are responsible for all of the evil in the world in spite of the fact that women owned slaves and promoted bigotry on their own.
- Opposition for men to be considered equal as parents in custody rights and raising children.

Yes, you can be pro-woman's rights and in favor of equality and still reject the ideological excesses of today's self-described feminists.

I consider my self a progressive anti-feminist. Factually there are many areas where I agree with many self-described feminists, but the level of ideological nonsense coming from feminists makes the term "anti-feminist" a comfortable place for me to be.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 09:21 pm
I like what Christina Hoff Summers has to say.... she uses the term "equity feminist" (as opposed to "gender feminist") to explain a feminism that really is about equality between men, women and any other gender (rather than an ideological narrative about evil men and oppressed women).

Karen DeCrow, the former leader of NOW who was attacked by many in the feminist mainstream when she dared to suggest that fathers were actually parents, is a personal hero of mine.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 09:45 pm
@TheCobbler,
By the way, I love the "trigger warning" tag on this thread. The mere idea that someone could question feminism apparently sets some people off.

In my way of thinking, such Sacred beliefs need to be questioned.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:05 pm
@maxdancona,
I've always been aware of women inequality, because as a minority, I have seen the same thing. When I was in a position to hire associates, I gave women equal opportunities. I was the first manager at Florsheim Shoe who hired a woman auditor. I was the first Asian to work in management at Florsheim Shoes.
When voting, I leaned towards women.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agree that there is gender inequality that disadvantages women. This isn't the part of feminism that I oppose.

I have raised two boys with dark skin, and one very White girl (all great kids who are doing well). I can tell you that my boys had a more difficult problem facing discrimination than my daughter ever has.

I don't usually vote based on gender, and I am supporting Bernie because I believe he is the best candidate. I voted enthusiastically for Elizabeth Warren, and I hope I get the chance to vote for her in a presidential race.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
My husbands Aunt used to sell Florsheim shoes in Raleigh, North Carolina. She worked for a nice shoe store (I'm trying to remember the name) in downtown both men and women's shoes and she really knew shoes. She would set aside shoes for my husband because he wears a 10 B and narrow widths are difficult to find. I just checked the Florsheim site and it looks like they only offer medium and wide now.

They are hard to find around here, which surprises me since so many people here work in D.C. Anyway, they made very nice shoes for men, the Florsheim site looks as though they are going for a more casual look. But, who wears wing tips anymore?
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:41 pm
The GOP (tea party) invoke Ayn Rand's name as if she were a man... Any explanation for that anomaly?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 11:30 pm
@glitterbag,
The company went belly up many years ago, and the brothers bought back their namesake company. Last I heard, they lived in NYC.
When I worked for the company, their shoes were made in Chicago. Many years after I left the company, they started making their shoes in China. The women's division was called Thayer McNeil. I still have Florsheim shoes, and they still look new, because I rarely wear them any more. I buy and wear Rockports. I still keep in touch with an associate who now lives near St Louis.
That's over 50 years.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 01:43 am
Karl Lagerfeld supports Hillary Clinton
http://pagesix.com/2016/03/08/karl-lagerfeld-supports-hillary-clinton/
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 07:55 am
Being a gay man I have met many lesbians in my lifetime. I have never met the type of women the GOP describe.

I remember a lesbian woman Jackie, she had a crewcut and the body of a football player. She had the most infectious huge laugh, drove a pick-up truck and kept a shotgun under her bed.

She also happened to be my building manager. Every landlord I have ever had has always waited 'til I moved out before they would do most repairs.

One day she and I were casually talking and I told her I hated the walls in my apartment. They were so grungy and horsehair plaster was always falling through the ceiling tiles.

It was no more than a week later she showed up with paint, plaster and stayed over a week and painted every room and plastered and sealed the ceiling tiles. I had a really nice time talking with her and she will always hold a special place in my heart for her kindness.

This is typical of my lesbian friends and the GOP anger me with their innuendo and sexist hate. I wish they would all just get voted out of office.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 08:11 am
@TheCobbler,
What about this woman?


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 08:28 am
@maxdancona,
You are throwing around a lot of terms here Cobbler. I am not sure what you are arguing. Let's see, we have

- GOP
- Feminist
- Lesbian
- Gays
- Women

There are several problems with your ranting... mainly that you are conflating all of these terms to create a simplistic, angry warped view of the world. There are lots of women who are Republicans. There are Republican women who consider themselves feminists. There are Lesbians who are not feminists.

If this is a thread to rant about how much you personally hate the Republican party, then rant away, but it won't be a very interesting thread.

It would be interesting to have a discussion about the political boxes we put people in and how we are becoming a more and more polarized society where people label and hate each other rather than looking for common ground.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 08:46 am
@maxdancona,
Is seems the common thread is that the GOP is sexist and homophobic...

That is one label that sticks.

And not all men are chauvinists, some men are feminists.

You seem more like the GOP than anything else..
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 08:52 am
@maxdancona,
Fox News put out so much propaganda about Barrack Obama that this is what they created. I know, I voted for McCain/Pailin the first time around. I MUST HAVE BEEN OUT OF MY MIND VOTING FOR THEM!!!! The second time around I voted for President Obama.

At one point Fox News called Obama "the gangster from Chicago".

She is ill informed by the conservative right wing of liars and thieves.
THIS is what Fox news does to caring conscientiously minded people (like you).
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 08:55 am
@maxdancona,
Do you have a problem with lesbian feminist women being cast in a good light?

It seems so... get help.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 09:50 am
@TheCobbler,
You are confusing all of your labels. You can't lump people behind your politically charged terms... people are individuals.

* I have no problem with lesbians being cast in a good light. Like you this group includes people I know and like.

* The term feminism is often used for a political ideology that I find troublesome.

* And I would like you to accept that there are
- lesbians who aren't feminists.
- feminists who are chauvinists,
- non-chauvinists who aren't feminists,
- women who are Republicans
- and even Republicans who are lesbians.

All I am saying is that maybe you accept that people as people. We are all different. Just because we fit into one of your target groups doesn't mean that we fit into your stereotype.

Putting people into these little boxes of scorn isn't helpful.

TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 10:29 am
SAUDI ARABIA: PANEL OF SCIENTISTS ADMITS WOMEN ARE MAMMALS, YET ‘NOT HUMAN’
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/saudi-arabia-panel-of-scientists-admits-women-are-mammals-yet-not-human/

This is one among many reasons why feminism still has its vital place in society and why I choose to be a male feminist!
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 10:34 am
@maxdancona,
Stereotypes are often used to degrade people but they are also used to unite people of a certain group. black power, gay pride, and yes, feminism.

You seem to want to dissolve these groups, in doing so you weaken their collective numbers. It is nice to pretend that stereotypes are not necessary but when the GOP and their "tea party" hate is dissolved these stereotypes will be less necessary.

The only group I would love to see dissolved is the GOP.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Mar, 2016 12:11 pm
@TheCobbler,
Why can't we unite around ideals and principles, rather than uniting around ideologies?

I will unite around freedom and equality for women as well as men. I will unite around LGBT rights, and civil rights. The current movement for law enforcement justice I fully support.

The "feminist" label comes with baggage that I choose not to take on.

There is lots of ideas that are considered "feminist" ideas that I fully agree with. I believe that women have the right to choose and the right to have access to good healthcare services including abortion. I agree strongly that women should be paid the same as men for equal work. I am as strong a supporter of LGBT rights including the right to marry as anyone.

But there is enough of "feminism" that I don't agree with for me to eschew the label. I don't accept that fathers aren't parents.. and the "feminist" arguments being used in courts and legislatures to prevent fathers from getting custody are infuriating. And I don't accept the new puritanical sexual mores that are being shoved on society in the name of feminism. And I hate the ridiculous idea that any consideration of how gender stereotypes hurt men is somehow anti-woman... as if you can't support both men's and woman's rights at the same time.

Do you know why many prominent feminists hate Dan Savage (of "It Get's Better" fame)?
 

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