Feminism (as seen by the GOP)

Let's face it. Anything with a label such as race, feminism, BLM, and others are brought with differences of opinion. We are all aware that bigotry and inequality are alive and well, and always will be. Let's just keep fighting the good fight. We have seen progress, and that's what matters. A small percentage will always be small minded, bigoted, and irrational. There's no cure for that.

Sure Cicerone, but this is a thread on Feminism. There is a legitimate push back on feminism, because prominent feminists are pushing policies and ideology that is ineffective and sometimes harmful.

Many of the goals of feminism are things that I agree with, equal pay, ending rape and sexual assault, abortion rights, etc. These aren't the problem.

The problem is the overarching narrative that is being pushed, of men who are always oppressive and women who are always victims. This narrative is anti-intellectual and corrosive.

Look at the current election where Madeline Albright said women who voted for against Hillary are going to Hell, and any criticism of Hillary Clinton is labeled sexism.

And look at the reason many prominent feminists hate Dan Savage, who is a strong advocate for civil rights and sexual freedom.

My personal experience was in a custody hearing where a feminist lawyer basically gave me a woman studies course on why men shouldn't be considered equal to women when raising children. This included the claim that I never changed the diapers of my children. She was dead wrong about this, not surprising because she based this claim solely on my gender.

During negotiations I ended up paying a significant sum of money for said lawyer to drop allow shared custody. After we agreed on the extortion amount she warned me not to make it sound like I was exchanging money for custody saying "judges don't like the idea that men are paying for custody". I replied... "what do you mean? That is exactly what we are doing here". She glared, but we signed the deal.

I don't know a man who has been through a custody hearing that doesn't have a legitimate beef with feminism.

I have no problem with feminists who actually believe in equality.

I am a female. Not a feminist. My husband respects me. I have met and been friends with straight "feminists" Tbh? Women need to back off on the term. She was a girl who dated, and if a man opened the car door for her, she found it degrading. I could not figure out her stance on men. They couldnt do right without her having an issue with everything. Sometimes it can go too far off the rails. As for the GOP, there is no "obvious" discrimination. A woman that is pro GOP will not speak up about discrimmination. I do know the "southern attitude" of men toward women. I decline to attribute that to political leanings as much as cultural oppression. I lived it. I didnt have the GOP dictating it tho. It was just, "the way it was". That the beliefs of the GOP and suppression coincide is , well a product of rural lifelong culture.

"Was Ayn Rand a feminist?" That would be an interesting thread. She has heroic alpha females in her books, that's for sure.

Ayn Rand was a woman?

News to me!

Too funny! See? Thats satire! Lol!

You want to eliminate Caitlyn Jenner?

Max is right. You're stereotyping and he's just pointing it out.

Being a part of a gender- or sexuality- oriented demographic doesn't require allegiance to a certain voting block.

It might have something to do with this.

I think what baffles me about the political aspect of feminism is when a woman sees how Donald Trump relates to women almost completely based on her appearance, it should shut down any woman from voting for him.

Immediately.

Women are meat for pleasure to Donald Trump. A woman's skin should crawl and an intuitive knowledge should warn her against him.

When my female associates at work promote him, I immed realize everything I thought I knew about them was meaningless.

Just because some feminist have carried it too far and are way extreme doesn't mean the concept which started the movement is not still relevant as women still do not get paid equal pay for equal work and other issues such as that.

On changing diapers, my husband had to teach me how to do the first one, after that, I was pretty much on my own. I admit that more fathers are participating than in the past, but still, on more than an average basis, women still are the main caretakers of children whether married or not. I do know that child custody issues needs to change. I understand why it started, I think way back in times past, if a couple divorced which was rare and a scandal, the children belonged to men just like everything else. However, now it seems women have to do something just horrendous in order for men to get custody. Child custody should be decided on a case by case basis and on what is best for the children between the couple. My nephew has been going through a terrible time with his son, the mother of his son is out of control in a lot of ways, but he still can't get custody.

As for opening doors, seems a frivolous issue to me, I admit though that it does seem as if women still expect men to pay all the money on dates, but if men want to put up with it, it is their own fault.

I live in the south as well, I think the poster who brought it up, generalizes it too much. It is more a case of who you hang around with. Some groups like those who attend the Trump rallies are backwards in a lot of ways so to speak, but there are plenty of men respectful of women and visa versa.

Revelette. This part of you post made me cringe... and I appreciate the attempt you are making.

But when you say "I admit that more fathers are participating than in the past", you are completely missing the mark.

Imagine if someone said "I admit that more women are participating in business leadership now then in the past, men are still the main caretakers of business..."

Do you see the problem here?

I am a father who was at least an equal partner in parenting with my wife since the day my children were born. I changed diapers at least as much as she did, and I spent as much time as she spent. I suspect that this is more common then you think (and would be even more common if feminism were really about gender equality).

I went through custody hearings where the lawyer gave us a woman's studies course about how men are only interested in children because it give them "power". She sat there in front of me and said, based only on my gender, that men didn't change diapers or spend time with children. These were pure lies.

(For the record, I ended up giving my ex-wife several thousands dollars extra in exchange for their side dropping their opposition to shared custody. The feminist lawyer warned that I shouldn't give the judge the impression that I was paying to have custody of my daughter because "judges don't look kindly on that." I was pretty upset, I said "that's exactly what you are making me do". My lawyer told me that yes it is extortion, but that I should take the deal and shut up because as a man I was getting off easy.)

Oddly enough, we have 50% custody on paper, I spend much more time than that with my daughter because my ex-wife often has something to do and leaves my daughter with me on her weekends. I don't mind this at all because my daughter is pretty incredible and my daughter doesn't mind it either.

But the feminist idea that fathers aren't equal parents really angers me.

You should read about Karen DeCrow, one of my heroes. She led NOW at one time, but then fell into disfavor with feminists for suggesting that preventing men from sharing custody wasn't a feminist issue.

So no, I am not against feminists, but I am against what I see as a harmful political ideology that is well known as "feminism" in popular culture today. When feminism is truly about equality, I am all for it.

No it simply a fact, women are working more than in the past and more men are participating in the day to day care taking of children than in the past, but it is still more women who do it than men, at least from what I have seen and continue to see. Today a good deal of father's are not even in their children's life out of their own choice and it is hard to get a dime out of them. Make of it what you will.

Revelette, I want to ask you to seriously consider the contradiction in your reasoning, rather than just having an ideological argument. This is an issue that is important to me.

I want to ask you to consider what would happen to your argument if the gender roles were reversed... but I don't have to, you are probably already taking the opposite side of the argument when women (rather than men) are being kept out of an important responsibility.

Consider this



In this case you and I agree (tell me if I am wrong) that women should be given every opportunity to take on this traditionally male responsibility. And they should be given social support to overcome the societal stereotypes that keep women from having this role.

Why should parenting be any less of a responsibility or a privilege as corporate management?

Lets encourage and support people who want to take responsibility in breaking gender stereotypes. We should likely give fathers resources and encouragement and celebrate fathers. To get more women on corporate boards, we give them resources and encouragement... and we celebrate their successes. To get more father's with their children, we should do the same thing.

Why is insulting men an acceptable thing? No one suggests that insulting women is a way to get them equality as business leaders, or scientists or politicians. I find it quite offensive when women's failures are highlighted to justify gender stereotypes. I find it equally offensive when you highlight men's failures to justify denying men rights as parents. It makes no sense to tell a father who is asking to be treated as a parent that they can't because some other men don't want it.

Equality is equality. Challenging gender roles mean challenging gender roles.

Treating the gender stereotypes that prevent men from being equal as parents as somehow different then those that prevent women from being business leaders is hypocrisy.

I am not attacking you personally, Revelette... but I find your post an example of the hypocritical side of modern feminist. Many modern feminist seem to think that some gender stereotypes should be embraced. I find that troubling.

Progress for women continues in all areas of skills. The biggest hurdle now is equal pay for equal work. Most boards are aware of this discrepancy, and are working to correct it. They must correct it, because legal suits are common in companies that refuse to correct this problem.

It should crawl, but the fact of the matter is that many women are attracted to wealth. From some perspectives, I don't blame them.

Listen, I am for Fathers to participate in their children's lives, children need their father's as much as they need their mothers. However, statistics have shown there is a fatherless crises in the homes in the US, either from a divorce or the parents never married in the first place. If a man wants to stay at home with the children, I think that would be great, never said or implied it wouldn't be. I think you are too sensitive on the subject and seeing insults were none were intended.







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My father died when I was two years old. My mother had two more children with another man, and we lost our mother, because she favored here new children. I was left to my own devices since I was two. It's amazing that I managed to stay alive, because we lived close to the Sacramento River which we used to visit often, and played on the banks. We always heard stories of kids drowning.

Here's a recent report of a 24 year old man.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article27873496.html