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How old were you when you had your 1st boyfriend/girlfriend?

 
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 02:45 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

(I'd agree with shewolf, but I won't address her anymore. Smile )


hey.

You looked in my direction when you said that.. therefore it was directed at me!

*humph*
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 02:45 pm
@GracieGirl,
Gracie, I am curious about something.

You've said that Collin is the first boy to ever ask you out, and pay a lot of attention to you.
But you also said this isn't the first time you've had problems with your dad, or gotten into trouble with him, over boys.

What sort of past issues have you had with your dad over boys?
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 02:46 pm
I have to admit that once Bean gets to that age where she doesnt want to question ME because she feels embarrassed.. or what ever reason..

i hope she finds a forum like this.

one where people debate laws, rules, family dynamics etc... and not one where there are nothing but child perps and people who want to make fun of her.
i would rather she be in a group of people who take her SERIOUSLY ( even if its over the top) than another place that will feed her a bunch of B/S .
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 02:49 pm
@firefly,
Good point firefly

Also, for what ever reason when looking in relationships this was the first thread that came up, seemed so apt, and made me think, this 13 year old had a role model, someone she could confide in, an Adult, her Mother and she seemed to mostly take her advice, or else the members steered her back into that direction.

We talked about that at the beginning of this thread, 1/2 rejected and 1/2 accepted if not your Mum...

http://able2know.org/topic/136048-1

So just wondering, do you actually have a role model in your life? A female Adult you can discuss life in general with, these sorts of situations?

In addition to firefly's question...



0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  0  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 03:02 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Ragman, if you look back a bit further, we suggested seeing and I also wrote that in my last post again, that maybe she try for compromise, with her Father, have Collin over for dinner to meet her Dad,


... and if YOU look back further at MY comments, you'll see my discussion on that very topic.
Ragman
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 03:03 pm
@shewolfnm,
sigh..you're right, of course.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  4  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 03:11 pm
@Ragman,
Why you yelling at me? Smile

I said "we" .. I don't need to look back, we both thought a third party to help would be a good idea..

I am agreeing with you that debating isn't going to help Gracie, and was therefore, trying to turn the thread back to those suggestions and other suggestions , as you can see I posted after that as well, getting back on topic, and away from the debate...

0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 04:00 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

Hi Gracie,

The hot state/ cold state thing effects everybody. Absolutely everybody with a functioning brain. You can't really avoid it.

Really though, when I mention it I'm thinking less about you (though it may well apply to you) than to Collin. I think what all of us -- the grownups here and you dad -- worry about is that you'll find yourself in a situation where Collin wants to do far more than you're comfortable doing, and what will happen then.

That's partly the age divide, partly the gender divide.

I'm absolutely not saying this WILL happen. I'm saying it's a worry, and explaining some of why.


Hi sozobe!

I get what you're saying, but me and Collin arent gonna have sex, at least not right now. If Collin wants to have sex and I dont, Im not gonna do it just because he wants me to. I dont let people boss me around. I do what I want, that's kinda how I've always been. I dont think that's gonna change.
No matter how much I like Collin, Im not gonna have sex with him unlessI wanna and I think Im ready. You guys dont have to worry about that and neither does my dad.

Quote:
By the way I don't want to imply that all teenaged boys are helpless pawns of their hormones -- they're not. When I was a teenager myself I knew plenty of teenaged boys who, even when they were in a hot state, were able to exert enough control to not do anything untoward. I also knew at least one who wasn't able to. And he was the nicest guy ever when he was in a cold (calm, rational) state.

Hopefully Collin's one of the first types.


He is. Smile

Quote:
Your dad doesn't know, though, and I think your best way forward is to recognize that, and not dismiss his feelings about it. I'd also recommend that you go ahead with taking things slowly with Collin for a bit. Text, hang out at school, but don't spend a lot of time together outside of school yet. Some, just not a lot.

That will allow your dad to calm down a bit and maybe get to know Collin a little bit gradually. And if Collin's a nice guy (and he seems to be), that can help reassure your dad. When he sees an actual nice guy instead of the Older Boyfriend of his imagination.

And it allows you to get maturity points which can then be applied towards future interactions with Collin, or anyone else.


Ok, that's sounds like a good idea, but Im not sure if my dad wants to get to know Collin. I asked him about Collin coming over for dinner and he said no.




0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 04:02 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:


the best thing you can do for yourself so you can FULLY enjoy your life is to realize that EVERYTHING can happen to you. Once you know that, you stop being worried because you take appropriate precautions.
It really IS that easy Smile



Okay, I understand. You're right. Smile
0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  2  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 04:42 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:

Gracie,

Off course he wouldn't trust you and still be mad.

You're lying behind his back, so he can't trust you:)


But I didnt lie. I just didnt mention the kissing. I told him everything else.

Quote:
It's better to tell the truth if you want him to trust you, remember, talk like an Adult, one on one, and remember he was a boy once, of course he is protecting you... You will protect someone one day, your daughter or son.

It's life, sweet there isn't much you can do about it, try to find a compromise if you can...


Okay. Tell the truth, I got it. But it seems like the 'truth' is getting me into more and more trouble. If I just did what my sister does and told him I wasnt gonna date Collin but still date him anyway, then this fight with my dad would be over and I'd still get to do what I want.


Ossobuco wrote:

Quote:
Gracie, you hide your phone in school and by extension, from your father, and brag about it and remain recalcitrant re being alone with a fifteen year old (fine or bad, what do I know, or you know). All sneaky and glad. You are very adamant re your frankly ignorant point of view. Listen to your 'stupid' father.


If you think Im the only one in school who does that then you're out of you're mind. I wasn't bragging about anything. I was just telling firefly how it was. Sure, I'm 'sneaky', all teenagers are and my point of view isn't ignorant just because you dont like it or agree with it. And I dont have to listen to anyone.

You can disagree with me without being mean about it ya know. I don't get you at all. One minute, you're my friend and the next you're calling me stupid.
You claim you 'care about me' but I dont see it. If you're gonna be my friend, fine, then be my friend. If not, you and everyone else can just leave me alone.

thack45 wrote:
Quote:

Gracie, you have won me over on this forum. I was initially quite uncomfortable with a 13yo girl on this site but came to enjoy and respect some of your questions and posts.


Very Happy Wow. Thanks! Mr. Green
Even though I argue with alot of people here sometimes, I do love you guys and I love being here and Im grateful and everything for all the advice and help I get even if I dont agree with you guys sometimes. And I know there's some people that dont want me here, and it really, really sucks, so it means alot to me when you guys say that you like my questions and post and stuff. That's awesome. Very Happy Smile

Quote:
But you just cannot expect a bunch of 30, 40, 50 ... and so on aged people - possessing the mere happenstance of hindsight - to go along with everything that you feel.


You're right, I cant expect that and I shouldnt. I dont really mind when you guys don't go along with what I feel, I just wanna know why. And I think that you guys can disagree with me without being mean about it. That's not too much to ask.

Quote:
This is not to say that their advice is not... advisable. But if you don't wish to take it than you are, like others in similar situations, in some sense on your own


I guess so...
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 04:51 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:
If you're gonna be my friend, fine, then be my friend. If not, you and everyone else can just leave me alone.


I have never heard you talk like that. You are breaking my heart.
0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 04:54 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Just because you say there is no difference doesn't mean there is none, Gracie.
In fact there is a huge difference between 13 and 16 - and I know so because I have gone through this with my daughter. Even with 15 she was more mature and reasonable than with 13. Boys have an entirely different agenda altogether and someone said that already - they are driven by hormones and all they have in mind is getting to second base and have sex. No matter how sweet and innocent Collin is, if given the opportunity he will convince you that kissing alone won't satisfy either one of you.


I dont see the difference. Grown ups date people who are like, 10 years older! You guys dont think that's a big deal. And Collin's not like that and he wont convince me of anything. The only people who are worried about sex are you guys! Me and Collin havent even talked about that. He's never asked me anything about having sex.

Quote:
What you're demonstrating here with each post is defiance - you don't want to listen and you don't want to realize that just every one in here is siding with your dad. Acting in this manner doesn't show maturity at all, on the contrary it's quite childlike. This isn't bad, Gracie, as you act exactly as
someone your age acts - perfectly normal for your age group. You are just as mature as any 13 year old should be, however, you're not mature enough to date, period! At this point - if you were my daughter - I would tell you: end of discussion and what part of NO don't you understand?

I have a feeling your dad did the same.


I AM listening to you guys. I just dont agree. Everyone's siding with my dad because he's a grown up just like you guys and you automatically think he's right. I dont think you're even trying to look at stuff from my perspective CJ. All you're think is "Dad says no. He's right cause he's the boss". I dont think you're listening to me.

Im NOT childish and I'm wayy more mature than other 13 year olds and you know that. You've said so yourself! I'm mature enough to date and I will.

I understand NO just fine. Doesnt mean I'm gonna listen when I hear it.
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:10 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:


But I didnt lie. I just didnt mention the kissing. I told him everything else.



and thats fine.
Thats not a lie. If he didnt ASK.. you DONT have to tell.

but when I say dont lie, what I mean ( dont know about anyone else..) but.. i mean.. when he ASKS you directly about something.. dont lie.

but just because your dad is asking about him does not mean you HAVE to tell everything . Wait until the information is asked for... otherwise keep your mouth shut Smile
Thats not being sneaky, thats not lying.. thats just giving him exactly what he asked for and nothing else.
Your dad does not NEED to know EVERYTHING. No way. GAH! that would be.. terrible frankly..
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  6  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:11 pm
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:
I dont see the difference. Grown ups date people who are like, 10 years older!

Oh, boy.

If you were looking at your situation through the detached and dispassionate eyes of an adult, you might see what we are seeing. But you're not. We're not siding with your dad just because he's an adult. If we thought he was making bad choices and decisions, we would tell you.

You're getting some excellent advice by many people here, and if you choose to ignore it, that's certainly your choice.

Quote:
Im NOT childish and I'm wayy more mature than other 13 year olds ... I understand NO just fine. Doesnt mean I'm gonna listen when I hear it.

Actually, that sounds like quite a lot of 13 year olds. Razz
shewolfnm
 
  3  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:13 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:


Quote:
Im NOT childish and I'm wayy more mature than other 13 year olds ... I understand NO just fine. Doesnt mean I'm gonna listen when I hear it.

Actually, that sounds like quite a lot of 13 year olds. Razz


* ding ding ding*

:0)
still love ya gracie.. but...

*ding ding ding* Laughing
Roberta
 
  4  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:18 pm
Gracie, If you're gonna do what you'te gonna do, then why bring it up here? I think you were looking for justification for your actions. You didn't find it.

You lack the one thing your father and many of us have--perspective.

From my perspective, you don't sound mature.

I told you that I had problems in college being younger than all the people around me. I had to work things out. Your situation is different. You're younger than everyone around you--but you're not in college. You're much younger than I was. Two and three years are a big difference the younger you are. You don't see it. And I suspect that you won't see it.

I'm not going to rehash everything that has already been said. I'm still your friend. I hope things work out well for you with this.



0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:36 pm
I have a 12 year old daughter. She socializes with boys only in group settings and prefers it that way.
0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 05:37 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:


GracieGirl wrote:
Quote:
I suspect your best shot is to own up to what you're really doing and stand up for it to your dad.


Easier said than done, dude. And I'm not doing 'anything' really. And what am I supposed to say? "Look Dad, I'm gonna make out with Collin all I want, so you need to like it or get over it?"

"Dad, I understand that you're trying to protect me, and I appreciate that. But I think you need to ask yourself a question: As I struggle with the challenges of being a teenager, do you want an open line of communication between us on which we can talk about problems like rational humans? Or do you want to drive a wedge between you and me in a futile attempt to drive a wedge between Colin and me?
Because, let's face it, it is a futile attempt. You can yell at me, you can ground me when I'm home, but while you work and I go to school, you have no control over what I'm doing there. When I'm at school, I will do with Colin what I think is right. The only realistic way for you to influence that is by persuasion. I urge you to use it. You can no longer intimidate me with your yelling and your threats. But I promise you that I will always listen to your advice. We'll get along better, and you still can do your job as a father to guide me."


Ahh, yeah! Thats a better argument. Maybe he'll listen to me if I say something like that. Smile

GracieGirl wrote:
Yeah right, that soo won't get me killed. Rolling Eyes

Depends on what you mean by "killed". If you go that route, there will definitely be yelling. There may well be broken glass and porcelain in the kitchen. And if your father is the hitting type, you may also end up with a slap in your face. Is this scenario possible? I think so. Would its outcome be worth the trouble? Only you can decide that.
[/quote]

Well, yelling yeah. But none of that other stuff. No broken glass and my dad NEVER hits me. He grabs me and stuff but he's never hit me. He's not like that when he gets mad. He just yells alot and sometimes walks away and ignores me until he's not mad anymore. "My dads gonna kill me" is just a saying. Exaggeration Smile He wouldnt hurt me.
0 Replies
 
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 06:19 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:


That's where you're wrong, Gracie. Things like social experience and age do matter--and that's what your father is making such a flap about. If Collin were 13, your father would be less concerned about the nature of the relationship and what was likely to go on between the two of you. Those 2 years make a big difference, both in biological development and social development, and that's especially true for a boy in terms of his sexual development. There is no way around the fact that that age gap matters, in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, at your age, no much how much you choose to deny it. For you to say it just doesn't matter, shows just how immature, and naive, you are being--if you had those two extra years of living under your belt, and you were 15, you would better understand why the age gap, and the gender gap, matters--for one thing, you would know and understand boys better, and you'd hopefully have more experience socializing with them in groups before pairing off alone with them.

The problem is that the girls you are comparing yourself to, and that you want to emulate and fit in with, are also 2 years older than you are--and they are at a different place in their social development than you are. Just because they are your classmates, or friends, doesn't mean you're entitled to do everything they are allowed to do apart from schoolwork--you are considerably younger than they are, and that's a fact you have to face and learn to live with. Your father isn't being "over protective" he's acting like the average parent of a 13 year old. Most 13 year old girls are not going on unsupervised dates with boys, let alone boys who are 2 years older than they are, and most 13 year old girls are not not allowed to spend time alone with a particular boyfriend doing "kissing and stuff". So, you're expecting your father to agree to something that most fathers would probably not agree to for a daughter your age. You're the one being unreasonable about that, not your dad.
You are also responding to peer pressure, that's what trying to "fit in" is all about. And you're caving into that peer pressure, whether you realize it or not, and ignoring all words of caution, even from the people here, about what you are doing. That's not so good, Gracie, in terms of what it says about your judgment--your judgment is still very much on a 13 year old level, and that's why your father has to lay down some rules, and insist you go along with them. Just because something "feels good" doesn't mean you should be doing it, particularly at your age. You are less aware of, and less concerned about, consequences, than you will be, even 2 years from now. Your father has to be protective--he has to protect you, or try to protect you, from errors in judgment you might make now, and not even be aware of--that's his job as a parent. You can't call all the shots, and just do what you want, you are not on equal footing with your father. Whether or not you think that's "fair" is beside the point--it's not a situation that's meant to be "fair"--parents have rights, and powers, and legal obligations, that their children don't have. Your independence is limited at this point in your life--and your father has every reason, and right, to impose those limits--even on things that "feel good" to you, or that help you to "fit in" with your older classmates.


Ok. So, maybe Im wrong. Maybe the age gap does matter alittle but I dont think it matters much because I already hang out with guys that are 2 yrs older. All me and Collin are doing is hanging out and sometimes we kiss. Thats it. What consequences should I be concerned about?

Quote:
You knew your father didn't want you to get involved with dating before Collin began showing an interest in you and kissed you. But, you didn't stop Collin when he tried to kiss you, did you--even though it appears to have happened in school, which makes it even more questionable. Why didn't you stop Collin, and tell him you had to think about what was going on? That's the problem with being 13, Gracie, at your age impulse and emotion can take over and affect judgment. You knowingly got yourself into a situation you knew your father didn't want you in yet. First you defied him, then you tried to convince him, always a bad sequence to follow with dads, Gracie. He'll react to the defiance first, which makes him less likely to listen to your convincing arguments.


I didnt stop Collin because I didnt want to. And I didnt think we were doing anything wrong. I wasn't exactly thinking about my dad when it happened...

Quote:
Have you told Collin that your father really doesn't want you involved with him as a boyfriend? If Collin is really such a decent kid, he should be somewhat concerned with getting you to do something that your father clearly doesn't want you to do. He shouldn't want to get you into trouble, and he shouldn't want to encourage you to just flaunt your father's authority, not if he's a decent kid who has some respect for his own parents and their authority over him. How much of this situation have you actually discussed with Collin?

I haven't told Collin that my dad doesnt want me to date yet. I dont want him to think I'm a little kid. He knows Im 13. Everyone does. Me and my sister are the youngest people at our high school. Even younger than the freshmans. People noticed last year. But I dont look that young and I act just like my friends do. I dont act like 1m 13 so he doesnt see me as a "13 year old." I dont want that to change.

Quote:
Your father isn't just the dad of one 13 year old girl, he's the father of two of them. That's why I asked you where your twin sister stands on the whole issue of dating and boyfriends. Whatever rules your dad lays down for you, he lays down for her too, right? Do the three of you sit down together to discuss this whole issue? When does your father feel you will both be old enough to date and pair off with boyfriends?


Lissa dates whoever she wants whenever she wants. She just broke up with a guy who was 16 and I thought she had sex but she didnt. She did some stuff though. She thinks its stupid that Im arguing with dad. She thinks I should just tell him what he wants to hear. Maybe I should, but it doesnt feel right. And I still dont feel like Im doing anything wrong, so why should I have to hide it, ya know?

[/quote]This isn't about taking sides, Gracie. I understand your side and I fully appreciate your feelings. I was once a 13 year old girl, and I had those feelings too. But I can understand the adult, and parental, perspective on this much better than you can, partly because I'm not as emotionally involved in the situation as you are, and, obviously, because I am also an adult and I can understand your father's feelings as well. So, whatever I say to you, takes both sides into account, and I hope it will broaden your own understanding, even a little. [/quote]

Ok. Fair enough I guess.
GracieGirl
 
  1  
Sun 11 Dec, 2011 07:36 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

firefly wrote:
You knew your father didn't want you to get involved with dating before Collin began showing an interest in you and kissed you. But, you didn't stop Collin when he tried to kiss you, did you--even though it appears to have happened in school, which makes it even more questionable. Why didn't you stop Collin, and tell him you had to think about what was going on? That's the problem with being 13, Gracie, at your age impulse and emotion can take over and affect judgment.


Well, I don't think that's quite fair.

The whole "stopping him from kissing you" thing. She likes him, and has for a long time, and he asks her out (yay!) and then kisses her (yay!) -- these are things she's happy about, and I think that's fine. I don't think that in and of itself it's anything she has to feel bad about. It also doesn't sound like it was something where impulse and emotion were really the main factors -- she wanted to kiss him before the kiss, she wanted to kiss him during the kiss, she wanted to kiss him after the kiss. Not something she regretted.


Exactly. Mr. Green

Quote:
What she's asked is where to go from here, since her dad is not happy?

Hopefully, Gracie, you guys will find away to talk about this since this won't be the last time it comes up....!

Any progress since we heard from you last?


Progress? Not really...

shewolfnm wrote:
Quote:
Im actually NOT on your dads side...

Thank you, Thank you, THANK YOU! Mr. Green

Quote:
except that the only few things he has to go on right now are A) you lied, B) 15 and 13 IS a big difference in who has developed in what area, C) you fail to realize that anything can happen to you.. there for you ARE at risk.


Well, A) I didn't lie, B) Maybe it is a difference but I still dont think its that big of a difference, C) Well, I didnt really realize before but I see that now. --At risk for what?

Quote:
like i said before.. dont take the idea that something WONT happen to you because you think that the something ( what ever it is) only happens to bad people, or lose girls or people who dont know something...
everything possible.. can happen to anyone living.. PERIOD. its not a reflection of bad or good, its a possibility of life.


Ok. I get it. Smile

Quote:
You CAN end up doing something you may not want to. Why? Because you physically CAN. And you need to understand that. REALLY need to understand.
It is NOT a bad thing to consider the possibility of having sex one day. Just knowing it could happen does not make you a slut, does not make you easy and DOES NOT mean you WILL.. but what it DOES do is remind you where and when to take precaution.
maturity is the ability to understand that anything can happen and having the intelligence to know where the proper precautions need to be AT ALL TIMES no matter what.


Ok. I get that too. Anything can happen and I should be prepared. I know Im gonna have sex someday, I just dont see it happening anytime soon.

Quote:
A mature teen has condoms even though they may not want sex because they KNOW it can happen. Doesnt make them bad.. just makes them smart.
A mature teen does not lie to their parents. They know their parents have the experience they dont and know it could be valuable information..even if they dont want it. they dont look down on their parents thinking they DONT understand... Nothing was different when your dad was a kid from now. Nothing. Does not mean you have to agree with him or think he is correct about everything, but maturity means you dont discard his ideas or dismiss how HE feels about something.


I cant get condoms. Im 13, who would sell them to me? And isnt it the boy's job to get condoms?
I didn't lie to my dad and it doesnt feel like he understands...

Quote:
condoms + truth - arrogance that says " it wont happen to me" = Mature teen


very very very simple concept.

and frankly.. you are pretty far along on that equation my dear.


(sigh)

Fine, but Im trying. Sad

Thomas wrote:
Quote:
Another thing that's not fair is the unspoken assumption---by firefly and others in this this thread---that her dad's "no" should be the end of the story. The reality is that teenagers have no moral duty to always make their parents happy. Sometimes there's a conflict between what they want and what their parents want. When such conflicts occur, sometimes it makes sense for the teenagers to stick to their guns and fight out the conflict, and sometimes it makes sense to avoid the conflict by obeying the parents. Indeed, picking the right fights is a key part of being a mature human of any age. It is unfair to suggest that Gracie is immature simply for wanting what she wants, and for putting up a fight in order to get it.


Thanks Thomas!! Exactly! You're the only one who gets that. Smile Smile
 

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