Sick of being turned down by wife

Let me give you an example. I know a couple who have been married for a number of years and have three children. She is no longer interested in sex and he is. They have an agreement. He discreetly spends an occasional evening with his mistress. She discreetly looks the other way. They are perfectly happy with the situation and are a couple in every other sense of the word.

He is a good father and they share many interests. They enjoy each other's company and have no reason to separate or divorce. The mistress is also apparently satisfied with the situation. In this situation, I don't see how anyone is being hurt. It wouldn't be ok with me, but it works for them.

ebrown mentioned it earlier on, which is what I was refering too.

I agree, but I know I'd be devistated if my man asked me if I minded if he had an affair, but I know not everyone is cut the same way I am.
As long as no one is getting hurt, to eath their own, but I can imagine that a lot of women would be very hurt by the suggestion.

I prefer this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0MmfRSjyo&mode=related&search=

Jake - Glad you checked back in.

Is your wife home with the kids? Working outsside of the home? What is your schedule?

From my own experience, if she is home with the kids all day, answering to their needs, and then you come home and want her to satisfy your "needs"... She may be feeling like an empty shell. At one point every "demand" for someone elses needs to be met felt like a piece of me being picked off little by little until none of "Me" was going to exist anymore. I didn't resent the kids for this or in any way feel negatively about meeting their needs cause I knew that was part of my responsibility AND they gave back so much in return (a smile, reaching up to hold my hand as we walked, cute things they would say or do, running to greet me if I'd only been out of the room for a few minutes. etc).

But, ones spouse is another adult that shouldn't require so much care for their "needs." They are supposed to be self-sufficient in their daily lives. Do you leave your clothes on the floor beside the bed? Walk away from the table after a meal? Leave whiskers in the sink? Flush? Or, do you make the assumption that's part of her job since she's home?

Do you dis-proportionally "Need" her? Not just with physical care like mentioned above, but does she also listen to your day at work? Who said what and how your projects are going? Do you have a dominant personality as far as who carries the conversation? Does she get to vent, or are you giving short solution answers to her venting that make her feel like the conversation has been shut off?

If so, she may be feeling eaten up with demands for meeting everyone elses needs. In that case, sex isn't a weapon, it's a survival tool. Giving away yet another "piece" of herself may feel like that "piece" won't be filled back in or reciprocated with having one of her needs met.

I think others kinda touched on this with their "get away" ideas. But, if there's an imbalance of needs being met, it will have to be a long term behavioral change and better communication between both of you, rather than just a weekend of trying to get back in touch.

Just a thought.

And an excellent thought, at that, Squinney.

Amen.

Double Amen!

And another amen from me, too. Squinney, that was the best explanation yet.

I couldn't agree more Freeduck!

Re: perfect

"Intimacy once in a while" could be a problem. Have you tried being intimate more often and letting sex flow from that?

I've been there. What you describe was what probably lead to my 16 year marriage ending.

Yeah, that was a good post by squinney. What I'd add is that especially with kids those ages the primary caretaker can get "touched out." Too much touching from needy kids all day can make touching from needy partners a bit much to bear. (That happens with male primary caretakers too, believe it or not.)

That said, it isn't fair for her to make the determination that it shouldn't be a problem. If you (jake) think it's a problem, it's a problem, full stop. That doesn't mean that you then get to dictate what does happen and she has to go along with it, of course, it just means that a workable compromise needs to be reached. And counseling is a good way to do that.

I agree that at this point the most you can do is to go ahead and schedule counseling for yourself. It will give you good methods for approaching the situation and convey to your wife that a) you have a problem and b) you want to find the solution to it.

What Squinney explained so well may be the situation, but it also might not be. We don't know that.

The wife seems to have lost interest in sexual relations with jakeman. Or has she lost interest entirely, with anyone ever? Maybe she feels that she has given and given and given. Maybe she is somewhat depressed. Whether she is turned off to jake or men generally, counselling would seem to help them both. Maybe they even need sex therapy, which I don't myself know much about, but I gather it can be helpful.

Quite a problem, with all the children. I guess, that short of being able to talk it out with his wife, and given that she won't go to counselling, I would, were I jake, consult an attorney about separation.... before I mentioned separation to her. You need to know how that would work, jake. I'd also get some counselling myself, to deal with it all.



Oh, and use protection in any future sexual encounters..

Re: perfect


Brilliant, DrewDad!

<applause>

Along the lines of what DrewDad said. No sex. Ok. What about everything else that is sexual besides the old in and out?

Do yall spend couple time together? Do you kiss? Hold hands, snuggle, stuff like that?

When you initiate kissing her, does she pull away?

If that's the case, and you've tried all that, and the two of you have looked over your schedule (who's doing what when, time when the kids are out, making TIME for sex that is no pressure). ..well, yes, I would say that going to get professional advice alone if you must.

No whining, begging, feeling sorry for yourself. Do something so she can't do anything but pay attention to how important this is to you.

And for god's sake, don't have any more kids.

again
Well hello everyone again,
thanks to all the excellent advice, especially squinney. I have tried all of the things suggested on numerous occasions.
Most women post about how tired the kids make you. I'll accept that. My problem wasnt that I got home and started chasing her around with the kinky feather, I'd take a quickie whenever she wanted. I"ve tried the romance, flowers, dinner, being so sweet it was sickening,....it just didnt work.
I dont know what I was looking for by whining on a forum board but i did get several suggestions. First, the mistress affair sounds so wonderful on paper, but I just dont see the gals lining up outside the minivan.
yes, she does pull away when i try to kiss her good. When I try to tell her that intimacy is important in a marriage, she tels me to stop being the woman in the marriage, that I"m whining.
I'm gonna try and understand that she might be exhausted from having the kids all day and i'll just wait her out. I'm just too horny for my own good.
Yes Drew Dad, we can have a play with words and let things flow from that...bravo, intimacy, sex, passion and any other dirty words you want to throw in. When your married and you look into the eyes of the one you love, call it what you want, you want a feeling that is more than a Jerry Springer zing in need of applause. Thats what i'm talking about and I dont care what it is you want to call it.

Re: again
Hi jakeman,

Thanks for additional details. I still like the idea of counseling. I'm not sure that "waiting it out" is practical, in the sense of whether it's realistic to just put this all on the back burner without building up a lot of resentment that will be destructive to your marriage.

Again, I understand how this could be difficult for her too but I don't think it's reasonable for her to just declare that it's not a problem, refuse to go to counseling, and tell you that you're whining if you try to resolve it yourself.

A couple of random observations -- do you call it "intimacy," with her? I think you can and should separate "intimacy" from "sex." She may well want to be intimate in a talking-just-to-each-other, physical closeness, spending time together way, WITHOUT the sex. In addition to what was quoted earlier from Kate Beckinsale, I think that men tend (generalization with exceptions) to use sex to become intimate, while women tend to be in the mood for sex after they feel intimate. Shorthand -- for men, sex first then closeness. For women, closeness first then sex.

I think, from what you said, that it's possible if you get some intimacy going WITHOUT sex -- explicitly keep sex off the table, say that you understand she's not always in the mood for that but you'd like to be closer to her than you have been -- she might be amenable to more. But she might not be of course.

Maybe you can also use the "waiting it out" idea to try to improve things. Say something like you're tired of begging, and that you won't bring it up or make a move on her for .... (pick a time interval you think wouldn't drive you crazy. a month?) And say that at the end of that time interval, you want to revisit the issue and really talk to her about it, and that you won't accept the label of "whining" for your legitimate concerns.

Sozobe makes an excellent suggestion and I think it's worth a try. Her post reminded me of how it use to bug me that my men only became intimate with me when they wanted sex and that ended up turning me off after a while.
I remember thinking "boy, I wish we could just snuggle once in a while without the sex." That was important to me, but I never even thought to mention it at the time. Now I wish I had.

Jake - You're still with us. That's good.

(I'm gonna look at minivans driven by a man in a whole new way, now. Gee, thanks!)

You aren't whining here. It can take a lot of courage to post to the world about your relationship, leaving yourself vulnerable to attack or taking of sides. I applaud you for being here instead of out in the van.

If your wife thinks you are whining and being a woman I'd say I was probably pretty close in my previous post to how she's feeling. She's listening to and meeting the needs of the kids all day, and then hearing more "do this for me, do this for me" from you at night. It very well may not be just about being exhausted, it sounds like it really is about feeling eaten up with everyone elses needs.

Re you "being a woman," when does she get to be a woman? She has to be strong, take the lead, be the chief executive all day "manning" the house. Just when she thinks she can hit the links like other CEO's, the controlling stockholder shows up demanding an emergency meeting.

You say you've tried the things suggested, but as we know in the corporate world, there's a lot of politics going on. When you try to kiss her and she pulls away, it may be because she knows where you're trying to lead her. Sending flowers, taking her to dinner, being sickeningly sweet? She's probably picking up on those things being manipulative towards... yep, meeting YOUR needs.

Sorry, but you're gonna have to be sincere. Can she go to her Mom or sisters house for a week? I'd make arrangements for her to get away alone if at all possible. Or, if you get away together take a book with you. Pretend she's just a friend. Let her have her space without feeling in any way like it's supposed to be a romantic getaway for YOU to get sex.

If you can't arrange for her to have some space, start walking in from work and taking charge of the house for her. Tell her to go to her room, take a bath, read or whatever and that you are gonna feed, bath and put the kids to bed. When you are finished with the kids and have cleaned up the kitchen, watch tv or come post here and let her have the bedroom. The next night, send her out with a girlfriend, to a movie or whatever suits her fancy. When she gets home, ask if she enjoyed herself. Kiss her on the forehead, and go to bed. The next night come up with something else that you know she would like to do.

Let her know she's a woman that you love, respect, appreciate and admire NOT for what she does for you and the kids, but for who she is inside. My guess is that when she starts feeling like a woman, she'll find her romantic side again. But, only if you are sincere. We tend to know the difference. Hence, what Drewdad and others said about being intimate without having sex. If she's picking up on an expectation of sex for you at the end of the intimacy, it may feel manipulative.

(Please don't take this as a "bad guy, good woman" post. I'm just letting you know what may be going on in her mind so that if you are inclined to try to save your marriage you at least have an idea of where to start. As someone else mentioned, you are the one here seeking advice, so these are suggestions for what you can do only because we can't address her.)