Manipulating women into liking you

My only question would be is it worth it to live almost depriving yourself of having sexual relations w/ people all for the sake of keeping freinds? Let happen what will happen rather than try and play it safe, I say.

I agree with that. But maybe I'm crazy! Life is too short to wonder.

I do understand not taking the leap to sleep together, but that is usually reserved in my books for someone you really know is just a friend, always will be, that's it, if there is attraction.
A sisterly/brotherly dynamic is a no-go situation, fer sure, regardless of having no relation.
A friend with a spouse/girlfriend is a no-go or a friend who is on the rocks.

Chai's question. Hmm. I'm curious about that too.
I think I am overly tough on myself and others about that whole deal, bc I did that young, overdid it, and now don't want anything to do with it.

I like things to be nourishing, however that turns out. A lifetime would be great, but we don't always get that.

How'd I get dragged into this?



It seems much was lost in Slappy's abbreviation. For starters, if you had unhealthy **** in your cart; I'd never say such a thing… and probably wouldn't be saying anything anyway. This is something I might say to an attractive woman with a cart full of fruits and vegetables and the like, while mine has a large stack of frozen pizza. You'd squint your eyes, look in my cart, laugh and slam me for the crap that is in my cart if you have a sense of humor. It's nothing more than an icebreaker; and now there's an opportunity to converse if there appears to be any chemistry. If you got indignant over something so silly and told me to buzz off, I would… but I'd leave knowing I had nothing to gain from meeting you and that I'd lost nothing in finding that out. I forget why or where I used that example, but rest assured it isn't part of some sinister script I follow.

Reading through; I think some here have missed a couple of the finer points in Slappy's strategy. For one thing; it's directed at unusually pretty girls. These are the girls who least expect the things coming out of his mouth, and are therefore most likely to find it interesting. You pretty girls out there can certainly confirm you're bored with being told so. As advice to a youngster; being the hundred thirty second person to tell a pretty girl she's pretty this week isn't likely to get you far. It matters little whether she's smart or dumb, confident or insecure… it's a simple matter of common sense.

I was once asked by a coworker "what should I say to a girl I've made eye contact with". He was shy and couldn't see himself just going over there unarmed. The answer is something, anything that comes to mind, but don't just sit there like a bump on a log or the moment is going to pass. Slappy's approach is an easy icebreaker, like the grocery cart example, that fills in that something. It's been my experience that most women are flattered if you show interest, whether they're interested or not. Since, like Slappy, I've spent a good deal of my life managing sales people; I know only to well that "No" doesn't hurt and the law of large numbers applies to everything. A single, lonely man or woman should say hello (at the very least) to every single attractive person they meet until they're no longer lonely. This will work for everyone.

Slappy also addressed a whole slew of turnoffs, while supplying his version of what works as turn-ons for him. I think the lonely reader would do well to pay very close attention the turnoffs listed, whether his turn-on system fits his/her personality or not. Sozobe makes the perfect angel to offset Slappy's devilish advice and if it's the long-term you're interested in; you should listen to her as well. I lean towards Slappy's method for meeting people but have largely lost interest in short-term results, so I no longer follow the follow-up rules he's listed. Make no mistake, however, if tonight is the night you want company; Slappy's methodology is very, very sound.

Women tend to like men, so I also concur completely with Slappy's anti-sissy advice, including the fake super-nice approach. Few women are going to go for the guy who starts by eating out of her hand (boring). It's no different for guys. Why doesn't he like me? I've done everything for him. <-that's why (boring). Sozobe; you are the exception to the rule if the super nice thing is really your thing. I suspect you just encountered overwhelming chemistry. In sales; no matter what approach you use, you will get sales. The best sales people, however, are invariably the ones who've mastered the art of the takeaway. Too good doesn't sell. Over-availability, premature pronouncements of adoration, overdoing the compliments and flowers etc. will bore more girls out of their skulls than it will attract.

Too many of you are being way too hard on Slappy, who's obviously trying to share some skills for some folks who may benefit from it. He's dead right about a lot of the mechanics of human nature, whether you want to admit it or not. Soz's point about who'll be most taken in by it should be well taken as well. But let's face it; more than a few folks could benefit from learning some social skills of attraction.

Parados offers good advice if you're as un-superficial as he seems to be. I'm not that good of a person. I don't rank woman by their appearance… it's more of a pre-req that has to be met before I'd ever be interested in the first place. Anyway; if it's a beautiful woman you seek; you can pretty much expect she's got some pre-reqs as well and tentativeness isn't likely to be rewarded. Per her past experience; a man who lacks the confidence to stand up and talk to her is likely going to be filtered out as someone who wouldn't be able to handle dating her in the first place. Dating exceptionally pretty women can be trying with all the A-holes out there.

[quote="Sozobe"I don't think I've ever, EVER, gone to a restaurant where the bill would total $150.[/quote] Come to Cedarburg and we'll remedy that. You Soz (and hubby), can eat for half price and I'll throw in the bottle of wine that drives the total to $150. You haven't lived till you've had such a dinner. The first time I fed my father there (THE cheapest man alive), he got all quiet. When I asked him what was up, he replied "I've just been sitting here wondering what I've been eating all of my life." Easily, the best compliment we've ever received. Come on up!

Nimh, Dag, there's no reason rational adults can't be friends after being romantically involved… unless one's having trouble getting over it. When it just doesn't work out well for this reason or that; I've seldom had trouble maintaining friendships, if they were worth maintaining. IMO, love's a rare pleasure so you have to take your shots when the opportunities present themselves.


(Yes, I know, we're probably both insensitive jerks for seeing the humor in that.)

Chai's question's answer: For me it was around 30… though I couldn't say I'd never revisit it. I've enjoyed being single but somehow, against my will, I've grown up and will probably settle down next time I meet a keeper. Pity they're so few and far between. Of course, I am back in Wisconsin now. :cool: Oh, and I do get to meet Brooklyn soon. :wink:

Brooklyn?

Shoot. None of my quotes worked because I was typing in MSWord. Brooklyn, as in Justababbling.:wink:

Chai, I think what I meant about the older crowd pertains to what Bill mentioned: how the backhanded compliments, being cocky, and avoiding wuss tactics really works on very attractive women. What I meant was when you're older, you're not going to walk into a public place and immediately have the vultures swooping down on you. These things I'm talking about kind of seperate you from the pack in those situations. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

And the "when does it get old" question doesn't really fit into this discussion. I'm not telling people to just sleep around. I'm just talking about initial attraction. The rest goes from there. For me, sometimes it is old, and I'm not always talking to women in bars. Sometimes I just hang with my friends. Other nights, I'll talk to everyone. Depends. I have no problem with committing to a girlfriend, I'm just very picky who that person is.

Kicky, I have that book. Those guys used methods far beyond the basics I'm pointing out. I can't even talk in their language. They would use magic tricks, give personality tests to women, ect. Thing about that book was how Neil ends up bashing the whole "society" that was developed, and how the guys who started the spin-off businesses created actually never picked women up on their own. They basically just memorized all the stuff from him and Mystery, taught it, but couldn't really pull it off themselves. Entertaining read though.

Bill, I could have sworn I read about how you said that to women, then asked them out to a "real" dinner on the spot. You definitely said something before about pickups in a grocery store, maybe I twisted your line around. But I mainly brought you up since I recall your outlook on this is similar.

oooo...you're digging a deeper hole slappy....backhanded compliments, being cocky, and avoiding wuss tactics really works on very attractive women.

So...all you very attractive women out there...what is it in your genetic make up that causes a man saying cocky and sarcastic things that causes him to be attractive to you?

I wouldn't know, having been incredibly unattractive all my life.

I sure wish I was beautiful, so men would talk to me like I was a piece of meat too.

One of these days, I'm gonna figure out how to scan a picture, and I'll post a shot of me when I was 22 or so. I would have blown that theory out of the water.

And I'm not so bad now either. I just don't make a big deal about it, since at the end of the day, it's just not that important.

Oh, I've had some really good food, especially from friends who are good cooks and when I've been traveling. (Paris, yum.) Just not that expensive.

This makes a lot more sense to me:



Self-deprecating humor works a lot better, IMO and in my experience, than the whole "play on her insecurities" thing. It's the same basic idea, in a much more interesting package. It still allows for a demonstration of humor and confidence, and invites a parry.

Back when I was being approached all the time, I heard the compliments a lot, yes, but I also heard a ton about how great the GUY was. THAT gets just as boring. Self-deprecating stuff, if done well and is actually funny (rather than just pitiful), can be much more effective.

Meanwhile, the idea that I've only gone for super-nice guys isn't true. I require a basically respectful attitude, but beyond that there is a lot of leeway. E.G. was pretty much universally despised at the co-op where we met by the women there (ask Bill's sis -- while I think she tolerated him, she was witness to how many people couldn't STAND his brand of ultra un-PC alpha male). But he would never dream of trying any of that "play on her insecurities" stuff, and knew I would crush him under the heel of my high-heeled boot if he tried -- which he liked... (The fact that I wouldn't put up with any sh!t, not the crushing, per se... )

Now there's an interesting metaphor.

It all comes down to doing something that people that you are attracted to will like and cause them to be attracted to you. (The vicious circle)

Slappy has said that already. If she doesn't like what I do then I'm not going to like her.

If what you are doing is attracting people you don't like then you need to change what you are doing. If it is attracting people you like then it works just fine.

It all goes back to being yourself and comfortable in that. Yes, you can train yourself to be more outgoing as Slappy suggests. Outgoing will probably let you meet more women but is it the kind you want? There is nothing wrong with striking up a conversation with a woman in the library that has a copy of "War and Peace." She's probably going to be attracted to someone that can discuss literature. If you like literature she is probably the one for you. On the flip side, if you like literature you probably wouldn't be comfortable talking to the blonde bombshell in the bar that wants to talk about the split up of Brad and Jen or the latest remix from Black Eyed Peas or the fact that Loreal has this really cool new 2 part mascara. Oh wait... Slappy wouldn't feel comfortable seriously talking about mascara. Oh my god. I can't believe I just went on and on about mascara. Maybe I'm gay. I need someone to help me make sure I'm not. <-----SELF DEPRECATING HUMOR (I hope it works..) :wink:

Hey there parados... <batting eyelashes>

You're right, parados. But you can still be funny, and doesn't hurt to be confident even when talking to a woman about her War and Peace book. Once you get her number, you going to call constantly, and be a clingy and needy wuss? Even if she's a relatively quiet person?

Chai, read what Bill said about why backhanded compliments work on unusually attractive women. I feel like I'm banging my head off a wall to get a simple point across. I never said it ONLY works on very attractive women. It's WHY it can work, and how very attractive women are conditioned to hearing compliments constantly.

What I'm saying Slap is that I was a very attractive woman when I was in my teens, 20's, 30's and am still a very attractive woman, now that I'm in my 40's.

I have never been conditioned to constantly hear compliments....that's what blows that theory apart.

Normally, I'm very self deprecating about my looks, because looks don't mean a hill of beans in the big picture.

I mention it only because you don't seem to realize that not all the lookers fall for what you're advising men to do.

Also, if you're going to be discussing literature with someone, there's no need to come across as confident, your intelligence will speak for itself.

Like I said before, the most attractive man in the room to me (and a lot of other women) is the one who's not talking much, is comfortable just being, and isn't acting like a show off. He speaks his mind and never feels the need to "act" in any particular way. Now that's confidence.

The more you describe your points, the more and more it sounds like little boys showing off in the playground.

Don't get me wrong Slappy, I respect you as a person (where have you heard that before), but unless you are dealing with a certain type of woman, i.e., the type that responds to bluster, you don't really know much about woman at all.

You've jumped from point A of talking to a woman to point Z of her "calling you constantly & being clingy"...maybe it's because your technique attracts women who are prone to that...I mean, one of your big points seems to be acting all in charge...well, to some women that means she's gonna let you be in charge all the way, and cling to you and call you more than you'd like....because you've given the signals you're the man who will just take charge.

You've said several time you only like to be with intelligent women....but what is intelligent to some might be, well, not intelligent to another.

The bottom line to me is, you seem to be happy with your method, great.

But for meeting someone of quality, I just don't see that...It's more like all these sparkles and rhinestones, fun, drinking, flirting, joking....but nothing real, nothing durable.

I truly believe when most people come on A2K saying they are looking for someone, they're not talking about something that will go on a few weeks or a few months max.

Ignoring a pretty woman can also work because she is not used to that. It doesn't every time but making smart ass comments doesn't work every time either. <Furtively glancing over at sozobe as I pretend to ignore her.>

Doing what works for you increases your chances because it is what works for you and you are comfortable with it. But it doesn't make it work all the time.

All women like men that are funny. Not all women have the same sense of humor. If she doesn't find you funny when you are trying to impress her she probably won't find you funny the rest of the time.

This came to mind because of the other thread (the one by Perplexed) where I listed some of the ways I have met guys, but belongs here I think:

One serious limitation I have on advice-giving in this area is that I met the guy I'm married to when I was 21. In all of the relationships I've had, meeting the guy took place in a school sort of situation (HS or college) or something else in that general milieu (i.e., a party with other college students). I know it's WAY harder to meet people after graduation, and that's something I have zero experience with... and hope to never have to experience (knock on wood).

Found the gocery store example here. It was in a thread titled "Scouting guys at the grocery store" and the intent was obvious so I complied... and kicked in some helpful advice for the ladies and gentlemen that tend to let opportunities to end their loneliness slip through their fingers out of shyness. Having been born, with a mouth 2 sizes too large, that's never been my issue... so I shared.

Chai, I do think you're inferring offense where none was intended. I too hit exclusively on very attractive woman and speculated on why different things may be more effective on them. This wasn't meant to deride anyone... just a factor to consider.

Soz, has it occurred to you that E.G.-as "an ultra un-PC alpha male" is the proverbial "Bad Boy" to your "Good Girl"? Hell, that could have been me you dated.

Who says I'm good?

...but anyway, yeah, that was actually my point. You were saying something about how I only liked good guys, and I was saying that E.G. is not so good as all that. He was flawlessly respectful and sweet to me throughout his courtship, though.

Right, Chai. No reason to come across confident. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say confidence is not attractive. You can still come across intelligent, but confidence will help you.

Part of what I said was to be yourself, NOT "act." Don't dissect every little line I've used, like you are. However, take the reasoning behind it, and apply it to your personality. If a guy is coming on here looking for advice on how to meet women, he's obviously lacking in those main areas I point out: confidence, sense of humor, and being secure with himself. Some guys need a virtual bitch slap of what he's doing wrong, and why being the super nice guy is actualy hurting him. This has NOTHING to do with the "type" of woman he's looking for.

Sounds like a few of you are patting yourself on the back because "acting like Slappy with me would never work." I'm trying to keep things basic, and you're ASSUMING you know the kind of women that I attract. Confidence, sometimes pushing cocky with a great sense of humor, along with being secure in yourself is attractive to everyone, even a guy meeting a woman who has these traits.

And these things aren't what you predicate the entire conversation on. Be yourself, but sprinkle in a sense of humor, some playful teasing(like you treat your bratty little sister), and have fun. At least I want to date someone who's a fun person to be around. If they're your stereotypical accountant-type with the personality of a bag of sand, then I wouldn't bother going beyond smalltalk anyway.

You said it yourself you're attracted to the quiet guy if he's sure of himself. Being sure of yourself is a form of confidence, isn't it? So you're not really arguing the fact that confidence is attractive. You keep sticking with...actually, I don't really know what you're arguing, other than trying to say I'm trying to teach some type of method to attract bimbos.

This isn't a f'n "method." I'm not going through a checklist of the steps you need to take from walking up to a woman down to taking her home. I'm pointing out the traits that are generally attractive to women, and using personal examples of how these things have come into play and worked.

And thanks for the little shot at me that the women I've dated who I say are intelligent may be subjective from my point of view. I thought if they knew how to spell, they were wicked smart and stuff. Guess not.

Also, I'm not preaching being a control freak. If you're familar with Sales 101, you've heard of the "assumptive close." Just a way of yes, being in control, but not telling anyone what to do. Difference there.

Parados, ignoring a hot woman can and does work. If she's the slightly bit interested in you, and you ignore her, she may compete for your attention. Her seeing you talking to her friends, other women, not paying too much attention to her can trigger a little jealousy, or at least show you're desireable.

Hmmm...well, mebbe I am weird.


I have had a few male friends where occasionally the attraction just fizzed up, quite unexpectedly, and kapow. We went back to our normal friendship afterwards, until mebbe next time.....and governed also, of course, by what other relationships we might be in etc. Lots of male friends, even though we have been very attracted to each other, are utterly out of bounds because of their relationships, or previous relationships.

I suppose, though, that I filter the people with whom I would do such a thing, and doubtless so do they in relation to likelihood of post coital extreme awkwardness.


I DID smeg up a perfectly good friendship a couple of years ago that way, which I really regret, but that was partly because the person concerned interpreted my normal friend behaviour afterwards as clinging, cos we have very different ideas about what close friendship means, which was probably always gonna smeg things up....(I have lots of friends, and I am used to a kind of rhythm re contact and such that this person did not have in his head at ALL....) Not that I am saying the affair did not change the way I related to him, it did....but less so than he imagined, and of course other things were in play.

I agree that, if the possibility that something real and lasting is in play I wouldn't let the friend thing stop me, but I would be ULTRA careful....Lol...I will be the initiator with men with whom I KNOW there is no possibility of a serious relationship, but I am very careful and very unlikely to initiate where I think there is a real chance of a deep relationship.




But mostly I think that the men and women who moan about being stuck in the friend role are people the other person was never sexually attracted to in the first place. And generally I think that is something one is at least subliminally aware of pretty much from the get go, though thereare, of course, exceptions.