Manipulating women into liking you

No shewolf, I didn't get laid....

So last night I'm naked with this girl, and she gives me another great example of what I'm talking about. I said something, jokingly making fun of her(forget what), followed with "I just say the sweetest things to you." Her reply: "most guys try too hard to be sweet."

Nimh, there's a fine line between being a control freak and taking control of certain situations. It's more like a sales technique, called the "suggestive sale." Instead of asking, "so do you want to buy the car?" you ask "so when did you want to take delivery of your new vehicle, later today, or tomorrow?" If you constantly just tell the woman what you and her are going to do, then it will become annoying. But used in a subtle way can help.

Flushd...you're probably right. But that's why I mentioned asking for the email as a last resort. That's not threatening. If she won't give you an email, she's not interested.

On that note, if you do open up a girl by getting just her email, make sure you keep it to only a couple emails before moving on to the phone. You don't want to become a penpal.

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Slappy, may I have several of your discarded girlfriends? I have a couple of minutes to kill this morning.

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Don't you mean, "I have a couple mutes to kill this morning?"

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Slappy

What do you recommend for guys who do not want to do the bar scene to meet women? Not necessarily out of shyness, but because, well, you don't want to meet the type of person who enjoys going to bars, because you don't.

Of course you can say, "Well, go to places that involve the type of stuff you like to do, and meet the woman there"

but, different environments would not necessarily be conducive to rolling into a room laughing, engaging someone in quick one liners, etc.

Whatever works for you, great....but I wonder about all the great women you're missing out on because of you blythe attitude.

If I were single, younger, and still beautiful and someone approached me like you do, I'd think they were a conceited (not confident) idiot. I'd be thinking "you think it's gonna be THAT easy? tossing that BS around?" Now that's sober, I guess if I had a few drinks, I wouldn't be thinking that clearly. Some ladies might then find you funny. If I was drunk, I'd find you obnoxious. Then again, I'd never want to meet a man in a bar.

Hey, I still like you Slappy, but I'm one of those (and vice versa) that would never be each others types)

So, what's the toned down version, for non party animals?

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I think that's my cue.

First, I'll say what I do agree with -- confidence. I think that Slappy and I agree that the most important thing to do to make people like you is to like yourself (for good reason). If you don't, see what you can do about changing the things you don't like.

Now, I'll go into the things I disagree with, and why. (I told you there would be a long version!)

Slappy wrote:

I've gone through it. Been that wimpy, frustrated guy in college who was surrounded by gorgeous women every day, but only as "friends." With the exception of my one cute girlfriend back then, I just got lucky. And I mean that literally. Since then, I've realized there are things you can do to change your interactions with women from purely luck, to stacking the odds better in your favor that you'll go home with a phone number, or better yet a real life, breathing female!

One of the biggest problems I have there is the problem of causation. You take a skinny, insecure, frustrated young guy and he's not getting girls. OK. Then you beef him up, make him more secure, and give him all these lines... WHICH of those aspects caused the change in luck? I'd say the beefing and the security, and then the rest is in spite of rather than because of the kind of approach/ lines we're talking about.

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Even though I hate that bastard, Tom Cruise in Top Gun is a great example of confidence. Follows the woman into the bathroom, tells her another time "I'm coming over so you can make me dinner." BACK TO THIS. In a nutshell, HE is in control of the situation. Take the lead. Instead of "would you like to go out sometime?" say "Hey, Wednesday I'm going to head over to XXX, you should come along. Ok, I'll pick you up at 8."

Absolutely not. Gag me with a spoon. This is where you self-select for the emotionally unstable gals. The ones who never got enough love from their father, or whatever. Women who have a shred of self-respect, themselves, will NOT like this.

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I've been told multiple times(not word for word every time obviously), "I like how you just don't give a damn," or "I can't figure you out."

And how do those gals feel about their fathers? [looks over glasses, shrink-style]

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Keep her on her toes. Without being insulting, tease her. "You've got the cutest little overbite when you smile." Sends a mixed signal. You're giving a backhanded compliment, but at the same time making her feel a little insecure. "You have nice nails...those are fake, right?" Keep the "you're beautiful" comments to yourself for now. If she's really attractive, she hears that constantly as a pickup line, and you're just coming across as one of "those guys." Those weak insecure guys women can't stand.

Instead, those obnoxious guys that weak insecure women love. If I actually think I look pretty damn good, no WAY would I choose to spend time with a guy who says things like that.

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If she asks you these questions, bust her on it. "What do you do for work" "Oh, I work the drive-thru at Taco Bell, but I really don't want to talk about it. Once women find this out it seems they just want to use me for my money...or free tacos." "I'm a disposable lighter repairman." "I'm a Calvin Klein underwear model...but I want you to know that I'm a person, not just a piece of meat."

See, there's a middle ground, dude. You can be silly and funny without being a total boor. You can talk about your job in a goofy way -- and still talk about your actual job. All of that evasion will make a sane, secure women suspicious -- with reason.

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What are the things a "nice guy" does?
-Compliment the woman. "You look really good today." "You're beautiful." "You're so intelligent, why don't you have a boyfriend?"
-Brings flowers on the first date.
-Calls constantly.
-Caters to her. "So what do YOU want to do? Where do YOU want to go?"
-Takes her to a nice dinner, even though it's a first date, and you barely know each other.

The only one "wrong" there is "calls constantly", and even then I guess it depends on your definition. Obviously, you don't want to go overboard, but I've had all of those things happen with a guy I liked a lot (married one of 'em).

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So don't waste your time on all the stupid "nice guy" tactics. For one, it's a waste of your time & money, and secondly, you drop any mystery you could possibly have, you're throwing all your cards on the table and saying "I'm here to buy your time and attention!" Once you do that she's thinking, "ok, who's next?"

Again, this may be completely true for a certain type. I've said throughout that if you're going for a certain type, this is the way to get her. Just, this type is in addition to the insecure and emotionally unstable stuff, shallow and needy. You really want her?

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Second girl, nice guy would have said, "ok, good night," then she would have kept using him for free dinner and just being his friend.

I'm choosing this one randomly, it's mentioned a lot. What's wrong with being friends? I don't necessarily mean you, because I think you have a lot of female friends, but the theoretical guy we're addressing here. Having a cool friend can be HUGE for the ultimate goal of finding a great girl. That is the single biggest way for partners to meet -- through mutual friends. It might not work out with her, no, but she might know someone who is just perfect...

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Women aren't attracted to men based on logic, but on emotion.

The emotionally unstable ones are. No, I know what you're saying. I think I even agree with that, I just think that the appeal to emotions should be different if you're going for someone more long-term.

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Maybe you did the right things that had her feeling drawn to you, but once you realize you like her, you revert to your wussy ways. Start being too needy and clingy. Do this too soon, and good-bye woman.

Depends on so much. My husband and I moved crazy-fast... if his behavior was looked at in a vacuum it'd look like he was being needy and clingy, but it was totally mutual. We still can't believe how fast we went -- fer chrissakes, we hardly knew each other! -- but there ya go. We did.

If he'd held back according to some external code, I dunno what would've happened.

Slappy -- I would love to see you experiment with being more straightforward but still funny. It doesn't have to be either/ or. Think DrewDad or patiodog -- they're funny, but their essential niceness comes through. Yours does too, here, but I think you can showcase it more and get even further than you do now -- and with saner women.

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When I first saw this thread, my immediate reaction was rueful dismay, but I was pleasantly surprised. I may not agree with every detail that Slappy put out there, but I do believe that he has the gist. At the risk of over-generalizing, most women do respond to quiet (not overbearing) confidence and humour. And most men seem to crave a manual or checklist; a textbook approach makes them feel more comfortable.

But just to add a twist ~ any given woman will respond differently to the same guy at different times of their cycle. Hormones. Especially in the highly-charged bar scene. This might help explain why a woman will drop you after a week of what you thought were good times. Or conversely, why a woman who wouldn't look at you 2 weeks ago now finds you fascinating. Give it a little time to even out.

Looking forward to the non-bar version.

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Tico wrote:

When I first saw this thread, my immediate reaction was rueful dismay, but I was pleasantly surprised. I may not agree with every detail that Slappy put out there, but I do believe that he has the gist. At the risk of over-generalizing, most women do respond to quiet (not overbearing) confidence and humour. And most men seem to crave a manual or checklist; a textbook approach makes them feel more comfortable.

But just to add a twist ~ any given woman will respond differently to the same guy at different times of their cycle. Hormones. Especially in the highly-charged bar scene. This might help explain why a woman will drop you after a week of what you thought were good times. Or conversely, why a woman who wouldn't look at you 2 weeks ago now finds you fascinating. Give it a little time to even out.

Looking forward to the non-bar version.

Oh yeah, you've got it Tico.

you know what...that hardy har har humor gets old REALLY quick, especially in a place like a bar...

First off, a bar is loud, and it goes like this...

Guy says something funny...
woman: What!?

guy says it again....
woman: WHERE did you want me to sit?!.....

guy: oh forget it.

Plus, honestly, you're not really getting what the person's really like, not if it's a noisy club atmosphere.

Also...and this goes for both sexes...What kind of phycho are you picking up that either (a) is going for this line of crap, and thinks getting teased is funny...or (b) talks to you like he's all in charge and saying stuff that is making fun of you. Most of it is just the influence of alcohol, bright lights, light music.

I too see potential of a lot of what slappy says, in that you really shouldn't be worried about what you might look like trying to talk to someone, hey, we're all human.

I know it's just a choice of words, but I kinda cringe when I hear the word confident.
I wouldn't personally describe his approach as confident, I'd say it was cocky. Being TOO sure of yourself in a big turnoff. Makes me think there's no substance there, and it's all bluff.

To be honest, what I find really sexy is a man who might be sitting alone, surrounded by people, but in no way looks uncomfortable with that. He's got the confidence to be his own man. Even there you got to watch he doesn't cross the line to sullen. If you started talking to that guy, and he starts going on how he's so into is art, and suffering for it, and starts criticizing others for being so dull...that's bad.

If the same man starts talking to you, notices the book you're reading or that you're wearing a unique piece of jewelry and comments on it, asking you if there's a story behind that interesting necklace, and listens, then volunteers a little about himself....and is comfortable....that's confidence.

Confidence isn't being brash and loud, it's knowing who you are, and being that person.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Nimh, there's a fine line between being a control freak and taking control of certain situations.

Nah, no control freak was ever involved. Just guys like ... you, I suppose, who thought it was kinda strong-looking to take control of the situation and say to her, "you wanna meet? well, ok, i'll come thursday evening". Like I said, she's a lady, she wants to be treated courteously. I bet she isnt the only one.

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sozobe wrote:

You take a skinny, insecure, frustrated young guy

Hey! Whats all this with the equating "skinny" with "insecure and frustrated"? There's plenty of beefy-looking guys (not to mention the overweight ones!) that are frustrated and insecure too yanno! Razz

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Tico wrote:

But just to add a twist ~ any given woman will respond differently to the same guy at different times of their cycle.

... or of their life, even.

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It's not equating...! Slappy was using himself as the basis of all of this advice, and that's what he's said about himself. I'm just questioning which of the self-improvement projects he underwent resulted in his better luck. (Hint, I don't think it was the Tom-Cruise-in-Top-Gun-is-my-hero stuff...)

Skinny guys have their own thing going on... ;-) (I've always gravitated towards the tall, thin, not-too-beefy ones.) (Though I have nothing against the buff ones...)

Meanwhile, yeah, "courteous", that's it in a nutshell. Not fawning, not sycophantic, but just basic courtesy...

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Hey, I'm tall, thin and not too beefy ... <winks>

Oh wait, you're married and stuff. Oh well... :wink:

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Soz

Are most women who had problems w/ thier father going to be insecure?

Also, aren't all people insecure on some level, no matter how small?

You did bring up a good point about what kind of women go to bars looking for men and such, I guess it's a preference thing.

I do remember, however, Slappy using a bit of a disclaimer saying something along the lines of: "If you're looking for something long term, this is by no means the way to go"

That's not a direct quote, but I think it's the gist.

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I've got a question that I think ties into this whole meeting girls in clubs thing....

Mostly for the guys, I have this question...around what age do you feel a man starts to come across as someone who's just too old to be there?

Back in the day, I'd see men at bars who to me at the time were "really old", like over 35 Laughing

, or God forbid 40! Surprised

Even if they were there with someone age appropriate (like within 5 years of his age) both of them would look kinda out of place.

It would be even worse when you saw some "old guy" picking up a woman let's say 22 to 25...ugh, gross! The absolute worst was when a girl about 18 would be playing up to some guy who obviously had money to spend, but was over 50.

Now, don't get all -well......that's what they both want......the guy is either married or newly divorced and thinks he's so with it...and ends up just looking so sad and pathetic.

On the girls end, well, let's just say they aren't someone you'd want to bring home to meet the folks.

No guy out there wants to think he's going to end up being this generations version of the dude who still wears his shirt open to his chest, covered with gold chains...but when I think about men who, right now just want to get a shot of leg, I sense they really aren't acquiring any maturity to eventually meet someone of quality that will be around for years.

If you're someone who doesn't ever want to marry, fine. But even then, if you keep up the club stuff, eventually either you'll be too old, or you'll end up frequenting places where everyone is the same age as you, but the wimenz are getting a little shop worn, and you begin to see why no one has "taken them away" from all this.

If you are looking for someone who you're open to the possibility of getting beyond the "your place or mine" there's just gotta be a little more substance.

Anyway, at what age do you think you'll start looking like a dork, and, well, do you plan on looking like one? What's your plan B?

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Chai Tea wrote:

Slappy

What do you recommend for guys who do not want to do the bar scene to meet women? Not necessarily out of shyness, but because, well, you don't want to meet the type of person who enjoys going to bars, because you don't.

Of course you can say, "Well, go to places that involve the type of stuff you like to do, and meet the woman there"

but, different environments would not necessarily be conducive to rolling into a room laughing, engaging someone in quick one liners, etc.

Whatever works for you, great....but I wonder about all the great women you're missing out on because of you blythe attitude.

If I were single, younger, and still beautiful and someone approached me like you do, I'd think they were a conceited (not confident) idiot. I'd be thinking "you think it's gonna be THAT easy? tossing that BS around?" Now that's sober, I guess if I had a few drinks, I wouldn't be thinking that clearly. Some ladies might then find you funny. If I was drunk, I'd find you obnoxious. Then again, I'd never want to meet a man in a bar.

Hey, I still like you Slappy, but I'm one of those (and vice versa) that would never be each others types)

So, what's the toned down version, for non party animals?

See one problem here is I'm using specific examples of where bold, cocky statements have worked. Because some guys will react, "but that won't work for ME," and women will say "that would never work ON me." And I feel you all think that kind of stuff is all that comes out of my mouth.

The funny thing is though, I've purposely said things where I truly thought I'd get laughed at just to see how far I can push, and ended up getting a positive reaction.

Now, maybe if I came up and said one of those EXACT things to YOU, you'd laugh at me and roll your eyes. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen. At the same time, you have to read people, and respond accordingly. Like the part where I wrote about constantly pushing a little further when flirting. At the same time you have to be able to take a step back. Some guys don't know when to stop. Obviously my whole conversation with a woman isn't just jokes and never giving her serious answers. There IS a line between being confident, somewhat cocky, and an overbearing pompous ass.

And even though I can get along with most everybody, if I really wanted to, I can engage a woman who's not my typical type, and pretend I'm not who I really am. But instead I act myself more so than the guy who tries to be too sweet too soon, and weed out women I know I won't enjoy being with. And believe it or not, most of the women I date are pretty intelligent. I really don't get along with stupid females.

As far as where...doesn't matter. I use bars as an example because I've met most women either there, at a party, or just through another friend. Again, read the person and situation. Don't be obnoxiously loud if it's a quiet place. I don't think I need to talk about that. No matter where you are, you can still bring something up about the environment you're in. I read how Occom Bill would go up to women at a grocery store, look down in her carriage, smile and say, "don't you know that kind of stuff will kill you?" It's not an overly cocky line, but walking up to a stranger takes confidence and being secure, and something like that shows you've got a sense of humor.

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Carbon, and I say in my long post, "Again, this may be completely true for a certain type. I've said throughout that if you're going for a certain type, this is the way to get her."

Slappy, I don't particularly doubt intelligence; it's just that, as you say yourself, this method plays on insecurities. Secure ones won't have patience for that kind of thing, IMO.

I really think you're setting up a dichotomy that doesn't have to be there. You can be yourself in the sense of making really dumb, tasteless jokes and saying what you think, without that extra level of "you've got the cutest little overbite when you smile" purposeful manipulation.

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If OCCOM bill or anyone else said something like that...I'd tell him to mind his own damn business.

Really, I cannot even begin to imagine what a woman could say to a stupid thing like that. She's either forced into making excuses for her life, or agreeing with him and looking stupid, or asking him if his name is Haywood Yabuzzoff.

Or is the fantasy converation supposed to be....ohhhhh, gee you noticed I eat like ****!.....gee that so nice of you to point that out to me....hey, how about if you tell me all about how I'm supposed to eat, since you seem to be so confident and in charge....

That's not trying to get to know someone....The first impression the woman has is that "he's some arrogant SOB" and he would have to do A LOT to make up for the initial encounter, and baby, I ain't got that kind of time.

Slappy, I know you're not like whatever you're saying all the time....

But honestly, I think you're not bringing up examples on how to start a conversation in places other than a bar, is because that's where you do most of you stuff as far a women.

If you really want to help guys, give them examples they can relate to.

But I do strongly think the WORST thing you can say to ANYONE, male or female, whether is about sex or just wanting to pass the next few minutes while waiting in line, is to say something that negates the other person...like what they are eating, wearing, etc. That's too personal.

Slappy, you're a good guy...I know that.

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sozobe wrote:

One of the biggest problems I have there is the problem of causation. You take a skinny, insecure, frustrated young guy and he's not getting girls. OK. Then you beef him up, make him more secure, and give him all these lines... WHICH of those aspects caused the change in luck? I'd say the beefing and the security, and then the rest is in spite of rather than because of the kind of approach/ lines we're talking about.

You think getting bigger was the main reason my dating life has changed so dramatically? NO way. Yes, it helped give me confidence, but that's one small part of it. If I could go back and listen to a conversation of me talking to a girl I just met, I would bitch slap myself so hard. It was the way I carried myself, and that came from confidence. Not to sound too cheesy, but that can only come from the attitude you have about yourself. And I think I already pointed out, I'M NOT GIVING ADVICE on what lines to say!!! I'm using examples of what I have said. The point is how you say it, and WHY acting a certain way works!

sozobe wrote:

Absolutely not. Gag me with a spoon. This is where you self-select for the emotionally unstable gals. The ones who never got enough love from their father, or whatever. Women who have a shred of self-respect, themselves, will NOT like this.

And how do those gals feel about their fathers? [looks over glasses, shrink-style].

Let's see. I've never once dated a "stripper" type girl with an ustable upbringing. The two girls I'm seeing now are both very close with their family. My last girlfriend was very close with her family(fathers included). Yea...nobody with any insane mental problems, other than a few medications here and there. I've dated some extremely intelligent women, actually.

sozobe wrote:

Instead, those obnoxious guys that weak insecure women love. If I actually think I look pretty damn good, no WAY would I choose to spend time with a guy who says things like that.

So you have zero sense of humor? If I said in a way you knew I was just playing with you, "wow Soz, that's a really nice skirt! Yeaaaah, I think you're the fifth woman I've seen wearing it today," you would get pissed? Well if that's the case, it's my way of weeding out those kinds of women. I don't flat out insult them, I'm teasing. If you're looking for a woman with no sense of humor, then don't joke around.

sozobe wrote:

See, there's a middle ground, dude. You can be silly and funny without being a total boor. You can talk about your job in a goofy way -- and still talk about your actual job. All of that evasion will make a sane, secure women suspicious -- with reason.

You're right. I'm not saying I don't give in and tell her about my job. I'll just respond sometimes off the bat with something like that as a joke. Telling a woman I'm an undewear model is funny since I'm obviously not. Either way I try not to talk about work too much unless we have something in common there.

sozobe wrote:

he only one "wrong" there is "calls constantly", and even then I guess it depends on your definition. Obviously, you don't want to go overboard, but I've had all of those things happen with a guy I liked a lot (married one of 'em).

Again, that's fine, and you may not hurt anything by bringing flowers. But there's a good chance you WILL. So why not leave that stuff for after you know things are working out, instead of right away? I've brought flowers right away, and seen it work, and saw it not work. A woman shouldn't expect anything like that though, and if she does well than she sucks.

sozobe wrote:

Again, this may be completely true for a certain type. I've said throughout that if you're going for a certain type, this is the way to get her. Just, this type is in addition to the insecure and emotionally unstable stuff, shallow and needy. You really want her?

Same as above. You were responding to me saying don't waste your time on flowers, expensive dinners right away, ect.

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Second girl, nice guy would have said, "ok, good night," then she would have kept using him for free dinner and just being his friend.

sozobe wrote:

I'm choosing this one randomly, it's mentioned a lot. What's wrong with being friends? I don't necessarily mean you, because I think you have a lot of female friends, but the theoretical guy we're addressing here. Having a cool friend can be HUGE for the ultimate goal of finding a great girl. That is the single biggest way for partners to meet -- through mutual friends. It might not work out with her, no, but she might know someone who is just perfect...

Because we're not talking about how to meet female friends, we're talking about attraction. If you're interested in a woman for dating purposes, you don't want to cross into "let's be friends" category.

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Women aren't attracted to men based on logic, but on emotion.

sozobe wrote:

The emotionally unstable ones are. No, I know what you're saying. I think I even agree with that, I just think that the appeal to emotions should be different if you're going for someone more long-term.

Both. What causes the initial ATTRACTION is emotion, not logic. If it was logic, than you would never look at a guy and think, "I'd like to meet him," you'd think "well if I can really get to know him, then after I analyze his personality and how well we mesh, maybe I'll allow myself to become physically attracted." And yes, as much as you hate to admit it, there are things a guy can purposely do to help push as many attraction buttons as possible.

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Maybe you did the right things that had her feeling drawn to you, but once you realize you like her, you revert to your wussy ways. Start being too needy and clingy. Do this too soon, and good-bye woman.

sozobe wrote:

Depends on so much. My husband and I moved crazy-fast... if his behavior was looked at in a vacuum it'd look like he was being needy and clingy, but it was totally mutual. We still can't believe how fast we went -- fer chrissakes, we hardly knew each other! -- but there ya go. We did.

If he'd held back according to some external code, I dunno what would've happened.

Slappy -- I would love to see you experiment with being more straightforward but still funny. It doesn't have to be either/ or. Think DrewDad or patiodog -- they're funny, but their essential niceness comes through. Yours does too, here, but I think you can showcase it more and get even further than you do now -- and with saner women.

If the feelings are obviously mutual, and both want to pursue a long term relationship, then doing the "nice guy" stuff obviously isn't bad. But most women you meet, you're not going to have that connection with right away. And if you're not getting those signals back from her, acting like that wussy guy is weak.

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Chai Tea wrote:

If OCCOM bill or anyone else said something like that...I'd tell him to mind his own damn business.

Really, I cannot even begin to imagine what a woman could say to a stupid thing like that. She's either forced into making excuses for her life, or agreeing with him and looking stupid, or asking him if his name is Haywood Yabuzzoff.

Or is the fantasy converation supposed to be....ohhhhh, gee you noticed I eat like ****!.....gee that so nice of you to point that out to me....hey, how about if you tell me all about how I'm supposed to eat, since you seem to be so confident and in charge....

That's not trying to get to know someone....The first impression the woman has is that "he's some arrogant SOB" and he would have to do A LOT to make up for the initial encounter, and baby, I ain't got that kind of time.

Slappy, I know you're not like whatever you're saying all the time....

But honestly, I think you're not bringing up examples on how to start a conversation in places other than a bar, is because that's where you do most of you stuff as far a women.

If you really want to help guys, give them examples they can relate to.

But I do strongly think the WORST thing you can say to ANYONE, male or female, whether is about sex or just wanting to pass the next few minutes while waiting in line, is to say something that negates the other person...like what they are eating, wearing, etc. That's too personal..

See, if you would be offended by stuff like that even if you knew I was joking, we wouldn't get along anything other than friends. And that's fine, and I wouldn't want to change gears, and act like a total sweetheart to win over a woman with a sense of humor and personality that doesn't fit mine. I COULD, but why go through that just to get laid? Been there done that.

You see, when a guy like myself or Bill says something like that, part of the reason is to find out which women are fun to be around, and do so quickly. If she gets pissed, so what? Move on.

You keep sticking with the bar example. What's the difference if she's standing at a quiet bar, a sporting event, or a party? What did I say is the best way to approach? Not to use a line, but to say hello, or make a comment on something that was going on in that moment.

I'm not talking about a certain "type" of woman. You find me one attractive woman that is attracted to "insecure, and no sense of humor."

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Slappy, I didn't say just beefing, I said, " I'd say the beefing and the security, and then the rest is in spite of rather than because of the kind of approach/ lines we're talking about." I think FOR YOU, beefing up had a lot to do with being more confident. And I think confidence (like you) is the single biggest one.

The point there is in the second part of the sentence; "and then the rest is in spite of rather than because of the kind of approach/ lines we're talking about." I think if, as a confident guy, you ignore all of these rules and just, ya know, interact with women, you'll get a lot further than you think.

It's like, this girl wants to lose weight. She starts exercising every day, and stops eating her daily pack of oreos, and goes to hypnosis. She loses weight. She starts telling people who want to lose weight, "You've got to try hypnosis! It worked for me!"

To me, the whole line/ method/ attitude business is the hypnosis. While confidence is the exercise.

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Manipulating women into liking you

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