Help me restore my marriage? Bisexual here

Quote:

I admire her as a human. I like her face. She is so pretty. I love her hair. She just has silky and short hair, which I dreamt from my childhood onwards. Her care for me. Her respect for me. Her height makes me proud to stand beside her. All these things might sound silly to you. Totally I like her as a person.

Her tastes in life: That was a hard task for me to get that list so far. But i guess this is what I know:
She likes to work hard. She loves my mom. She likes family stories. She is a good friend of my mom and she loves to hear all those stories. She si a good listener. She likes watching movies. She loves Sweets. She is mad about chocolates. To be frank I think I know very little about whatl she likes. I guess I need to work on that.

All emphases mine.

Good grief.

I understand I'm being rough, but this is textbook "I know my family wouldn't approve of me clubbing and shagging everyone in sight until I'm 40, so this is who I've come up with to appease them, and she's served her purpose pretty well."

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Nick29 wrote:

Only thing is she is not used to expose herslef, and be subdued and she just needs a little soemone like to walk her through the true colors of life. A life where one can see and feel the enjoyment and its beauty. I think I'm there for her to be everything.

What if she turns out to just be subdued by character? Would you still love her and want to spend your life with her?

I mean, if she really is a night butterfly just waiting to be kissed awake, then of course it will be wonderful if in you she finds the man to wake her to the sensations of that life.

But if she simply is more introvert, more quiet or more of a homebody by nature (and thats a real enough chance), then feeling like she's failing your teachings by being so isn't going to do her self-esteem any good..

So you'll want to ask yourself that question beforehand. Would you love her still even if she doesnt shape out according to your teaching plan? Because it's not nice to set her up for failure...

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nimh's saying what I'm thinking much much more nicely...

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In most of Europe too sozobe Laughing

To have an equal relationship it takes two people of equal
strength, equal values and a balanced emotional well being.
That would be the ideal version, but in reading through
this sub category, you have to admit, sozobe, that an equal
partnership is not all that common, and in Nick's case it
is resp. was imbalanced from the start.

So, in order to gain a balance, to thrive for an equal partnership, both partners need to learn from each other/teach each other.

Not everyone has the perfect relationship, sozobe, regardless if the live in the United States or not. Frankly, I've seen
in the US more marriages that are imbalanced than in other
parts of the world.

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Totally agreed about learning from each other/ teaching each other.

Nick doesn't seem to be indicating that he feels he has anything to learn from her.

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Quote:

I will study her and find out all that she likes. Will amke her to lead a more self esteeme life and lead a life of her intrests and eventually our intrests.

sozobe, that's what Nick said on page 7. He's willing to
study her and find what makes her tick, thus learning what
her likes and dislikes are. He needs to evoke interest first,
as he claimed earlier that she shows very little interest
in anything.

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(Oh and the America/ England/ Australia thing was just that I'm in America and Nick is in England or Australia but I forget which... heh...)

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CalamityJane wrote:

So, in order to gain a balance, to thrive for an equal partnership, both partners need to learn from each other/teach each other.

And Nick is eager to be taught what exactly by his wife?

The way he talks about your idea now is with the enthusiasm of My Fair Lady's Henry Higgins, and like Higgins', his enthusiasm is all about himself.

Any man setting out to not just teach his wife skills and insights that she will teach him as well, but to discover her, open her to (his) world, shape her, make her, train her and teach her - all one direction - is in for a lot of hurt - most of it hers.

Any woman in marriage deserves to be loved for whom she is already, not just for what her husband hopes she might become, if he succeeds in teaching her well.

That is the part that is painfully missing in your posts, Nick, to be brutally honest, and the reason why I'm no less concerned for her now that you discovered a mission to teach her and be her everything than back when you weren't sure you even wanted to be with her at all.

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What he says could be fine, I'm willing to be convinced. The overall context though is that he married this woman some time ago and still -- now -- says "To be frank I think I know very little about whatl she likes."

This is all fixable, sure, but in sum total -- the "naturally" affairs, the attempts to justify doing it just one more time before stopping, the list chock full of "me"s when I asked him to say what he loves about her WITHOUT using "me" or "I" -- the impression I have is that he picked her because she would do, not because there is anything inherent about her.

There are some pending questions though that could change my perspective, we'll see how he responds.

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There, nimh said it more nicely again.

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nimh wrote:

And Nick is eager to be taught what exactly by his wife?

Nimh, every person has something to offer. It might not correlate
with your ideas, but nonetheless I would never assume that Nick's
wife is completely incompetent.

Yes, she deserves to be loved and cherished, and that's exactly
why Nick has started this thread. He's asking for advise to change
his present ways, and to do better. He wants this union to succeed
and is willing to do everything.

Now, I cannot predict the future - neither can you nimh - but if Nick
is willing to give his best to make his wife happy, who are we to
doubt him? If it doesn't work out down the road, so be it. At least he's
tried. I've known perfect happy couples who didn't make it to their
second anniversary - you just never know.

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Hi Folks,

I just happened to finish my call. It was a real intresting call, I guess probably after we left apart. I felt her. I was happy till now, cant explain but i'm happy. For a moment this time I didnt tell her about my nightouts. but i almost gave her the clue that past 4 weeks we felt tht disconnect and its time we talk to each other and understand exactly where we want to be. And nimmh and sojo for a change this time I played a trick on her this time just to get to know what all she likes. I told her some of my freidns were asking me how much I know about u? what u like and i ahd to put a blank face up. ia sked her many questions this time. You know what she said she likes to listen to intresting talks and she said after a long time she si feeling some sense of emotion deep inside. So here comes some more addition to the list of her likes. One intreasting that i observed, I was quite comfortable than earlier when i spoke something with her about SEX. I realised even she was opening up. This is just a beginning...but this is very exciting..and i guess all that dust that clogged in my mind was washed to a vaery great extent after talking with you folks...Much to my fear the impossible seem to be possible now. She asked me the stuff that she has to get from her place. I told a few and then I asked her to get the 10 DVDs that i know she liked most. She said if there is space she will get and i told her back. make that as the first priority, if thats missing form the list of things, take of my list too.

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Calamity Jane you saved my life with ur wonderfull advice. Thanks Much.
Sojobe with your straight forward questions you challenged my mind, which was then going into the ruining side.
nimh and phoenix you put me right there.chumly you were the first to raise my hope. Thanks to amny others.
This is just out of happiness of my first brick of rebuilding wall. Now I got more stronger to opt our form the planned weeeknd club party. Long way to go..but yes I will be there in all my senses.

And yes what else am i missing out something here any basic thing.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Chumly, your example with the French wife/mistress can't
be compared to Nick's situation.

To stay with your example, the mistress obviously knows about the wife, and vice versa as well. Both choose to look the other way.

Nick's wife doesn't have this option. She is an innocent girl whose first sexual experience happened to be with someone who neglected to tell her about his sexual preferences. When he married her, she rightfully would assume, that Nick is committed to her and honor a monogamous relationship. If he wanted an open marriage, he should have discussed this with her beforehand.

That is not what I said or meant. It can often go much deeper than the simplistic view. The mistress may or may not know about the wife, but often enough not "vice versa as well". In particular not in the overtly conscience sense. I know it may be hard to explain but it's not uncommon.

Chumly wrote:

these values may not apply to everyone at all times. For example the French are famous for having mistresses, the wife knows but does not know (if you know what I mean). She may well be devastated if it was brought directly to her unavoidable attention, but be quite fine otherwise.

Also I am not at all convinced the wife in this case is a ignorant as Nick29 makes her out to be, in denial perhaps, like a French wife perhaps.

I assert that anyone who claims that self-deception is not an integral part of human relationships is fooling themselves (good pun don't you think?) In this context I am not using self-deception as either having bad or good connotations and nor am I condemning or condoning Nick29 & wife.

Again though, I am not placing value judgment on Nick29 or wife, but yes I do see many similarities.

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CalamityJane wrote:

nimh wrote:

And Nick is eager to be taught what exactly by his wife?

Nimh, every person has something to offer. It might not correlate
with your ideas, but nonetheless I would never assume that Nick's
wife is completely incompetent.

Well, of course, do'h - you must have totally misread Soz and me, there. I personally assume that she probably has lots to offer and teach to Nick - and that if Nick has so far not found out about it, it doesn't necessarily say much about her.

That's why my doubts were mainly about whether Nick was able to see it or look for it, since the posts he wrote after your advice were all about what he could show and teach her - and I'm telling you, a man imagining himself to be her saviour and educator is the last thing a girl with low self-esteem needs.

Thats why Soz and I saw all kinds of warning signs coming up, right then; personally I'm even more concerned about the girl now than when Nick was still doubting to even continue with her. Sometimes the solution that feels best to you or to your self-image is not the one that's best for the other person.

But Nick, you're on your way and you're determined, so all we can do now is wish you luck and urge you on to please, be honest - to her but also to yourself. I hope it will work out well and that CJ's hopes will show themselves to be founded.

Keep in touch, perhaps?

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You know the French thing is more romantic stereotype than reality right, Chumly?

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nimh wrote:

...I'm telling you, a man imagining himself to be her saviour and educator is the last thing a girl with low self-esteem needs.

Thats why Soz and I saw all kinds of warning signs coming up, right then; personally I'm even more concerned about the girl now than when Nick was still doubting to even continue with her. Sometimes the solution that feels best to you or to your self-image is not the one that's best for the other person.

But Nick, you're on your way and you're determined, so all we can do now is wish you luck and urge you on to please, be honest - to her but also to yourself...

You're absolutely right, Nimh. <shaking head>

What a train wreck. Crying or Very sad

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Well nimh, I guess I am not as negatively inclined as you.
I have more confidence in Nick that we wants his marriage
to work.

Why would he come here, register, and ask for advise in
how to save his marriage, if his intentions weren't there?

Sorry, that he did not take yours and sozobe's advise,
but not everyone is thinking in terms like you.

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CJ, I'm absolutely convinced that Nick wants his marriage to work.

Unfortunately, I just don't see how that is possible. It's a fraud.

And I don't think the answer is turning a marriage into a classic "parent-child" relationship as you suggested, as much as I'm sure that appeals to Nick! He is so confused, poor guy. I'm afraid we're just making it worse.

If his "wife" knew who he really is, I doubt very seriously that she would stay. I also doubt that his family would be happy. So he continues to lie (by omission) and pretend that he is what they want him to be. Naturally, he is conflicted.

Eventually, either the guilt will get to him, or he will slip up. But the truth WILL come out. The longer he waits, the bigger the explosion will be.

I feel sorry for him, his "wife" and his family. This is a tough situation. But pretending to be something he is not...is NOT the answer. His wife deserves to know the truth and make up her own mind whether she can live with this. He owes her that much, and he should respect her enough to tell her.

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Oh we never said he didnt have good intentions, CJ. Good intentions by themselves do not avoid pitfalls (even ego-centred people have good intentions!), so its up to the listeners to point them out.

And with most pitfalls I suppose, you have to have seen people fall in them to realise they're there.

Quote:

And I don't think the answer is turning a marriage into a classic "parent-child" relationship as you suggested, as much as I'm sure that appeals to Nick! He is so confused, poor guy. I'm afraid we're just making it worse.

My feelings exactly .. Sad

My honest feeling is that I can see exactly why a scenario of CJ's type would appeal to him - and how it's liable to mess her up (no offence).

Instead of having to confront the difficult questions about himself and his relationship that he started this thread with, he gets to be this wonderful guy again, who's going to edify her. But it's a form of escapism, and one that seems to be more about calming his panic or soothing his ego than about giving her a fair deal.

Sorry Nick - and I really promise you that I'll shut up after this ;-) - but this is my take:

She needs to hear the truth; make an independent decision; and be aware that she deserves someone who really goes for her.

She does not need someone who will blur the truth to her, stay with her while at least partly yearning for something else, and solve that dilemma of his by looking upon her as a kind of project, which he hopes can still be molded in such a way that she'll be enjoyable enough to him.

Good luck!

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Help me restore my marriage? Bisexual here

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