How old were you when you had your 1st boyfriend/girlfriend?

@gustavratzenhofer,

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I was 39 when I had my first girlfriend. She was 87. It was beautiful and lasted until she died at the age of .... hell, I guess she was 87. Seemed longer than that.

Well at least you had that fleeting moment of pure joy, Gus.
As they say, better to have loved ... etc.

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@Thomas,

I see a role for listening.

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@Thomas,

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With apologies for repeating myself, her father's role is to keep her safe; her own role is to assert her liberty

Her father's role is more than just to keep her safe.

And I disagree with you that her role is to "assert her liberty".

13 year old's are very limited in true "liberty"--they are not free to do just as they wish, nor will railing against adult authority change that very much. Their choices in many areas are limited, both by law as well as individual parental authority. To encourage a 13 year old to "assert her liberty" is a little like telling her to bang her head on a wall. One can express one's individuality in variety of ways, but that is quite different than an assertion of "liberty".
Gracie is not yet an independent person, an adult, she cannot play by her own rules. Learning that helps someone her age to develop better internal controls, and helps her learn how to deal with frustrations, and to delay gratifications, and to compromise, and to negotiate, and to learn a host of other positive things as well.

The major developmental tasks of adolescence are individuation and separation, which are part of identity formation--and this is a continuous process--at 13, Gracie has barely dipped a toe into those waters. Rebellion may, or may not, reflect a healthy expression of that process, although it is generally expected in adolecents to some extent as they sort through values and options. But to encourage rebellion, merely for the sake of rebellion, because that's what you think an adolescent should be doing, is simply to encourage needless conflict without particularly aiding in identity formation, or much else.

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I cannot advise her father on how to play his role. But I can advise Gracie on how to play hers. And I see no need to discourage her from playing it.

So, how are you telling Gracie to "play her role"? Just keep defying her father? What exactly are you telling her to do?

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I've never really had a "true" girlfriend, it's kinda complicated, but there is this girl I've been in love with since I was 16, I'm 18 now and we still see each other but were merely just friends DX

I also recently had a "boyfriend" for about 3 weeks but that didn't really work out too well v,v

I still have more soul searching to do I guess XD

EDIT---I didn't realize this post had 12 pages o.o
Oops XD

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@shewolfnm,

shewolfnm wrote:

Kids will do what they wish with or without parents approval and to assume that they would acclimate otherwise is silly .

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Gracie, use a condom. No matter what. Do NOT get lost in the idea that sex = love. It doesnt.
Dont be ashamed of yourself. Its ok to feel like you want sex and its ok to feel like you are in the best love of your life. Just dont lose yourself in it.
Know that once the other stuff starts ( beyond kissing) it can end JUST as quickly. Boys DO only have one thing on their minds and its not their fault. Its just how humans are.
Boys? Honey .. its sex. Im sorry.. but thats about 90% of a young mans brain. No insult intended... its just truth.

Later on in life that hormone calms down and they can get away from that drive they have.. but right now, do not be fooled or misguided thinking that there is anything else as important or as strong of a drive as sex is.

I get what you're saying but I don't wanna have sex. That's not what this is about. I don't wanna date Collin just so I can have sex with him and I dont think he's dating me for that either.

I mean, I'm not gonna lie, I DO think about it sometimes and I wonder what it would be like or feel like. But still, I don't wanna do it NOW. Besides, sex is kinda gross, don't you think? And its scary and I know it hurts (for girls atleast). I know I'm not ready. And I wouldnt let Collin talk me into anything,(I know that's what you're worried about).

And I dont think I love Collin. I think I could if we dated longer. He's perfect. Smile

And I really really like him but I think love's supposed to feel different, like wayy better. Maybe if I loved Collin, then Id wanna have sex. Or maybe not. I dont know. But thats not important anyways.

If all Collin thinks about is sex, then he sure is good at hiding it from me. He hasnt even asked me or talked to me about having sex and he never does anything else but kiss me. And its not even those sloppy, wet kisses that grown ups do, its just little pecks and stuff. We havent even made out yet, really.
I know he's not a virgin though and I know that he knows that I am one, but I dont think he cares. He hasnt mentioned it. We dont even talk about that stuff.

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Your dad is worried that sex will take you to places you are not yet mature enough to handle. Not that I am saying you are 'immature'.. that is just how we develop. Most people can not rationalize sex on a strong enough level until about the early 20's. Its just how it is. Sort of like you wont see an 8 year old girl with boobs... we dont start to get them until our teens. Its something that we can not HELP, it just happens.

Your dad knows this and he is worried that you will get emotionally scared, or manipulated into something you may not want to do, or think you have to do because you are in 'love'. Thats what happens to teenagers dear. nothing we can do about it.
He wants to tell you no to it all knowing that.. in just a little while, you WILL be able to navigate through emotions and behaviors and actually do things that you enjoy instead of being blinded by the short sighted extreme emotions of a teenager.

Im not having sex and I dont want to. Dad has NOTHING to worry about.
Ya know, I think thats what his deal is. He thinks Im gonna wanna have sex just because I have a boyfriend.That's stupid. Dating Collin isnt even about that. Just because we're teenagers doesnt mean that everything's sex, sex, sex. Just because he was obsessed with sex when he was a teenager doesnt mean I am.

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but.. again.. you wont understand that until later and in my opinion only... you should just have all of the tools you need to stay safe.
Condoms. Do NOT have sex with out it. Period. And you can have sex often.. thats ok. Be ready to deal with the ultimate break up and possible gossip after. THATS just how kids are.
Use a condom.
Did i say that? condom? OH YEAH! i did.
oral sex CAN give you infections. I would advise against it.. but.. again, no one can make you do anything they think you shouldnt.

Condoms! Right, got it! But if my dad ever, EVER catches me with a condom, you'll be hearing about my funeral on the news. Condoms=sex Shewolf. My dad would freak.

Oral sex? Seriously? Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!! Noooo Way! Never! Dont worry.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/throwing-up.gif

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Dont . lie.
If you are ever caught by your dad... DONT lie. just...trust me on that one..

Okay, and thanks shewolf. You're awesome. Smile

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@BillRM,

Well put me back on ignore, shut up and go away. I dont like you and I dont care what you think. How about you mind your own business? Rolling Eyes

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

If you are already that closed minded on this issue, why bother soliciting advice/opinions/experiences from anyone here?

Im sorry. Im really not trying to be 'closed minded' but its really annoying or I dont know, disappointing, when all I hear is "Gracie you're wrong" "Gracie you're immature" "You're being naive" Blah blah blah. I just get snappy sometimes.

I thought you guys would get what I was saying and you'd be on my side. You're my friends, not my dads. And I wasnt expecting all of the insults. And yes, 'naive' and 'immature' are insulting and you guys know that. I dont think Im being naive or immature at all. And I hate it when you guys say that. Im not insulting you just because I dont agree with you.

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You are deliberately challenging your father's ability to lay down rules for you, and that's only going to provoke further conflict and attempts on his part to control and restrict you even more. Your life isn't your own yet--your father has every legitimate right to exercise his authority in this matter and other matters as well. Proving you can defy him will only wind up making your home-life more miserable. I honesty thought you had more common sense than that.

Oh look! Another insult. Thanks for that firefly. Rolling Eyes

Im not 'challenging' him just to hurt him or get him angry firefly. Its because he's not being fair. There's no reason for him to be so overprotective. Me and Collin arent doing ANYTHING wrong. We kiss, so what? He's making it a bigger deal than it is. He doesnt know everything and he isnt right all the time.

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In a month, Collin may be interested in another girl, but you will still have to live with your father. You are being somewhat short-sighted. Think about that.

That's mean. And you're just saying that to hurt me and to prove your stupid point. You cant know that. Collin cares about me and he isnt gonna ditch me in a month for another girl. You dont even know him.
And I'm not gonna have to live with my dad.
When Its time for me to start college (in 2yrs) Im soo outta here. He's too annoying. Im not a freaking robot thats suppose to obey his every command. Im a teenager. Sometimes he just needs to back off. I just wanna do what I want sometimes.

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At what age has your father said it will be all right for you to begin dating? Why does he want you to wait until then? You have a twin sister the same age as you, how is she handling the issue of dating?

He said 16 and I think thats too old. I'll be in college by then.

My sister just broke up with her boyfriend a few weeks ago. She's dating, its just that my dad doesnt know about it.

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@GracieGirl,

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We havent even made out yet, really.

Making out is pashing, huh:) But, from there for a boy who is not a virgin, it's touching, fore-play, oral...

Don't go there girlfriend. Smile

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I know he's not a virgin though and I know that he knows that I am one, but I dont think he cares. He hasnt mentioned it. We dont even talk about that stuff.

Statutory rape... Has this been mentioned yet? Do you know what would happen if you had sex with Collin say in 6 months time? Collin would be charged with statutory rape with a minor, heavy duty, jaol, for minors, a boys home, a criminal record, no hope of a decent job.

If you don't think you "love" him, then it's just the desire in my opinion to have what your sister has, what your brother had, being rebelious, wanting to win, do what you want...But, you are doing it at a cost, to someone else, Collin, he has to keep it in his pants ...

Do you think your Father knows that too? I do.. And he would call the Police, you are his Princess.

Gracie, we ALL wanted to do what we wanted, get stuffed Dad. You will understand when you mature and yes, there is a huge difference from 13 to 18, phew , thanks Dad for all the protection, I didn't realise what guys were like...

There is also hard love.. That is when people, "try" to make you see via words that may get you upset, why? Because those are the words you listen to, and hear, not anything else.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
With apologies for repeating myself, her father's role is to keep her safe; her own role is to assert her liberty

Her father's role is more than just to keep her safe.

And I disagree with you that her role is to "assert her liberty".

Fair enough. We disagree.

firefly wrote:

So, how are you telling Gracie to "play her role"? Just keep defying her father? What exactly are you telling her to do?

If Collin is important enough to her to merit the conflict with her father, and if there's no other way, yes. In that case I advise her to keep defying her father. If Collin is not important enough to her, I advise her to end the relationship, though I think she made it pretty clear that Collin is important to her. And of course, the possibility exists that her father is open to persuasion, which is preferable to open conflict. We'll get to that if she's interested. But to taking defiance off the table as a viable option isn't the first thing to do. It is the last thing to do. At least that's my opinion. I know your opinion is different, and you're welcome to it.

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@GracieGirl,

GracieGirl wrote:

He said 16 and I think thats too old. I'll be in college by then.

My sister just broke up with her boyfriend a few weeks ago. She's dating, its just that my dad doesnt know about it.

Have you asked your dad why it's sixteen for you and thirteen for your brother? Your father is a jurist. Perhaps he could be persuaded, or at least embarrassed into giving ground, by having to explain his discrimination.

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@FOUND SOUL,

FOUND SOUL wrote:

Statutory rape... Has this been mentioned yet? Do you know what would happen if you had sex with Collin say in 6 months time? Collin would be charged with statutory rape with a minor, heavy duty, jaol, for minors, a boys home, a criminal record, no hope of a decent job.

Gracie Girl says she doesn't want sex, and California has no law against kissing. Just to be sure though, let's look at what California's statutory rape law actually says about Collin and Gracie:

In Section 261.5 of the California Penal Code, California's legislature wrote:

(a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this section, a "minor" is a person under the age of 18 years and an "adult" is a person who is at least 18 years of age.

(b) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is not more than three years older or three years younger than the perpetrator, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Source

So if Gracie and Colin were to be caught having sex, they would both be guilty of statutorily raping each other, which is a misdemeanor by both. I doubt that Gracie's father would be quick to turn in his own daughter. According to the website sexlaws.org, a number of professionals would by law have to report you if your relationship turned sexual and they knew it. If convicted, you would not be registered as sex offenders, but the misdemeanor would likely come up in a background check. That last point is according to one California misdemeanor attorney's website.

Summing up, while the specifics of found soul's claims are exaggerated, there would be a real concern here if Gracie ever changed her mind about having sex.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

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So if Gracie and Colin were to be caught having sex, they would both be guilty of statutorily raping each other, which is a misdemeanor by both.

No, that is inaccurate. You are ignorant regarding how California law defines sexual intercourse.

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"Sexual intercourse" is the act of a penis penetrating
a vagina, no matter how slight.

Gracie would not be guilty of anything, but Collin could be charged.

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Q: What is the legal age of consent to have sexual intercourse in California?
1. A: 18 years old. This means sexual contact with a minor under the age of 18 is illegal in the state of California even if the minor says it is consensual.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Q: What is the California statutory rape law?
A: The California statutory rape law is titled "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse" Section 261.5 California Penal code.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Q: Is it legal for two minors to have sexual intercourse? Top of page
A: No. Sexual contact while under the age of 18 is not legal. Depending on the age of the parties involved and whether or not there are repeat violations involved, it would either go to juvenile court or, under certain situations a juvenile court judge may recommend the case be moved to adult court. If the violation is under 261.5 it is misdemeanor offense.
http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape#Q2

And the charge might not be at a misdemeanor level. It could be a felony. But a misdemeanor charge is nothing to be taken lightly.

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Unlawful Sexual Intercourse

Unlawful sexual intercourse is differentiated from sexual assault in that it always involves a minor under the age of 17 years old. In California, a minor under the age of 17 is not able to give legal consent for sexual intercourse, regardless of whether he or she is a willing participant. An individual who has sexual contact with a minor under the age of 17 can be prosecuted for unlawful sexual intercourse, and if the perpetrator is three years older than the minor, the crime is considered a felony.
http://www.ehow.com/about_6623976_definition-california-law-sexual-assault.html

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I doubt that Gracie's father would be quick to turn in his own daughter

His daughter would not be guilty of anything...But, he might be quick to turn in her boyfriend...because when the 13 year old is the daughter of a California prosecutor.....

Look, we are talking about a 13 year old who is getting herself involved with a 15 year old boy who is already sexually active, and who, according to Gracie, has already had sexual intercourse.
This really isn't a good situation for her to be in, at all, and I can't blame her father for wanting to nix this sitution.

Gracie is trying to "fit in" with 15 and 16 year old girls, and that's a good part of the problem.
According to Gracie, all these girls ever talk about is their boyfriends, and what they do with their boyfriends.
Gracie needs some new friends.
If that's all these girls talk about, Gracie really doesn't "fit in" with them, and having a boyfriend, that she can talk about, really won't help her to "fit in" with them, since she is still considerably younger and less socially experienced than they are, nor should she be trying to "fit in" to a social scene that is not a good fit for someone her age. I'd wonder why she even wants to hang out with friends who do nothing but talk about boyfriends, surely there are people at her school who have a few other things on their minds, not all 15 or 16 year old girls are quite that vacuous.

I think Gracie might need to get involved in more activities, both in school and outside of school, to help her make some other friends, possibly some closer to her age, and to help her expand her social experience.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

No, that is inaccurate. You are ignorant regarding how California law defines sexual intercourse.

I just quoted to you the law that you said I was ignorant of. If you don't want to accept what its words say, that's your problem, not mine. I will spell it out for you nevertheless: If Collin's penis were to penetrate Gracie's vagina, that would be sexual intercourse, and they would both be participating in it. Because they are both minors, they would both be liable under the California Penal Code, section 261.5, subsection (b). If you know a California statute that distinguishes between the male and the female participant in the unlawful sexual intercourse, please cite it to me.

But if, as Gracie says, she is interested in no more than kissing, these considerations are mute anyway. Kissing is legal in California.

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I think we all forget here, that Gracie's father has objections to dating a boy that is 2 years older than his daughter. We should respect that and we should support him. It doesn't help whatsoever if we side with Gracie and tell her it's okay to see her boyfriend behind Dad's back. For us adults that's irresponsible behavior. We need to support her father and his reasoning
behind it, period! It's not acceptable to give her any other ideas and reassurances she indeed can date.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

I think we all forget here, that Gracie's father has objections to dating a boy that is 2 years older than his daughter. We should respect that and we should support him.

Why? What has the father done to merit our support?

Calamity Jane wrote:

It doesn't help whatsoever if we side with Gracie and tell her it's okay to see her boyfriend behind Dad's back.

Then you must be happy that none of us is telling her that. Those of us who support Gracie in continuing to date, also tell her to be open about it.

Calamity Jane wrote:

It's not acceptable to give her any other ideas and reassurances she indeed can date.

Fine! Don't accept it if we do, then.

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Oh wow "what has the father done to merit our support?"

Thomas, you seem to forget that you're dealing with a minor here and as such we have a collective responsibility not to encourage her to do things, a minor is not only legally prohibited from doing but also prohibited by her parent.

Your behavior of encouraging her to date behind her fathers back is irresponsible and plain wrong!

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@GracieGirl,

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Collin cares about me and he isnt gonna ditch me in a month for another girl.

When a boy tells you he likes you, that is not a pledge of undying commitment.
And I am not saying that to be mean, Gracie, that's a fact of life. Most early teen relationships don't last that long.

A boy's interest in a girl can be fleeting, just as a girl's interest in a boy can be fleeting. That's why people date--meaning to go out with a lot of different people--because adolescence is a time when you get to know different kinds of people and find out the sorts of things you like or don't like in a relationship partner. And most people really start to do that at 15 or 16, because they know themselves a little better at that point. So, your dad really isn't all that off the mark in his thinking.

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but its really annoying or I dont know, disappointing, when all I hear is "Gracie you're wrong" "Gracie you're immature" "You're being naive" Blah blah blah. I just get snappy sometimes.

But you're raising these issues at a Web site where most of the members are adults. They tend to have an adult perspective on these matters which might differ significantly from yours.
There are Web sites devoted exclusively to early teens where you might find thinking more compatible to your own, and possibly gain some helpful advice on how to deal with the sort of conflicts regarding dating that you are having with your father.

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Im not a freaking robot thats suppose to obey his every command. Im a teenager. Sometimes he just needs to back off. I just wanna do what I want sometimes.

Just saying, "I'm a teenager" is not some sort of badge of entitlement. Yes, you're a teenager, but so is an 18 year old, and those 5 years constitute a world of difference in terms of maturity. And there are significant differences between a 13 year old and the 15 or 16 year old girls you compare yourself to--and your father has said you can date when you are at their age.
I suppose in some areas your dad does back off, but in other areas, he might feel more strongly about, he'll hold his ground.
Of course you just "wanna do what I want sometimes", we all feel that way sometimes. But we can't aways do that, for a variety of reasons. I can't always do what I want either, I have other obligations, there might be unwanted consequences, I could get myself into difficulties I really would rather avoid.

If you want more independence and leeway from your dad, prove to him that you are responsible-- that you are reasonable, that your judgment is sound, that he can trust you. After you do those things, he may be considerably more receptive to allowing you to do more things.
Right now, I think, you are doing quite the opposite. And the more you defy him on this score, the less likely he will be to trust you, or your judgment.

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When Its time for me to start college (in 2yrs) Im soo outta here.

Good, when you go off to college, you can spread your wings. But, until then, you are living under your father's roof, and he is going to set limits on what he will or won't permit. It's not meant to be a "fair" situation, you and your father aren't on equal footing.

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@GracieGirl,

no honey no!!!! sex ISNT gross.....
seriously it isnt.

but, that is a great example again .
when i use the word maturity , it isnt an insult.. it is a description of where you are at when learning something.

i can say you are immature in the way s of trigonometry and be 100% correct.
Why? you dont KNOW it yet.

and with sex.. you are 'immature' to it. Why? because you dont know it yet Smile

no. teeagers lives are not all about sex. Thank GOODNESS or people would screw themselves blind before the age of 20. though.. as a nurse I have had to help young boys remove their penis from some reallllllllyyy strange things. Neutral

but.. what I am saying about the condoms ... is to have one.Or have ACCESS to one. Use google and find the closest planned parenthood. They GIVE them out for free.
Knowing WHERE you can get one does not mean you want sex.
and yes.. having one around WOULD freak out your dad. WHOA ****! the world would crash. I agree....

and I believe you when you say that you do not want sex right now and you wont do it.

but what about 6 mos from now? 2 mos?
You know things change. You didnt like this boy like you do RIGHT NOW 4 mos ago...
sooo? why not just KNOW where you can protect yourself?
having sex isnt gross. It will be gross until you have experienced it because you do not know about it and that is ok.

but know...know..know.. you will change. You grow, you mature , you learn and you love.
Part of that growth is to know HOW to take care of yourself. And taking precautions to something doesnt mean you will do it.. but it DOES mean that if you do, you are safe...

just DO it..
find the planned parent hood.

dont make me come after you.
I will hide condoms all over your room. I will embarrass you. TRY ME ! Wink

but beyond that ...your dad is really adamant about you not seeing this guy. I dont know that you can change his mind right now because.. well.. you lied to him. SO he has a hard time believing anything you say.
In fact, at this point.. ANY discussion you have with him will result in an argument. You can bet on that.

so now what.. Neutral

tell him?
meh.. you could.
In fact you could just.. straight out tell him... " hey dad. im still seeing colin. I like him. We are not having sex. I dont want sex. Ithink its gross. but I like colin. and I dont want to have to lie to you.. so here it is. Im telling you now and it wont change"

then you can just brace yourself for the scream fest.. but.. at least you told him so now he cant call you a liar.

or
you can sneak around and get punished in ways that will stop you from seeing colin.

....?

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@Thomas,

Quote:

If Collin's penis were to penetrate Gracie's vagina, that would be sexual intercourse, and they would both be participating in it.

No, Thomas, the law applies to to the male--Collin doesn't have a vagina and Gracie doesn't have a penis--she cannot penetrate him in the way that sexual intercourse is defined under California law. She might be participating, but she is not the one violating that particular law regarding Unlawful Intercourse.

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If you know a California statute that distinguishes between the male and the female participant in the unlawful sexual intercourse, please cite it to me.

I already cited you the definition of sexual intercourse under California law--it does not define unlawful sexual intercourse in the way that you do--it distinguishes the one doing the penetrating from the other participant.

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@CalamityJane,

When my own father was Gracie's age, he didn't just date in defiance of his father. He took a stick and beat his father up once. My grandfather, see, was in a habit of beating his wife and his daughter. Beating him up was the only way for my then-13-year-old father to stop him. And, mind you, that's not a one-off anecdote. In this thread alone, I know of at least one person whose father has treated him or her worse than my grandfather treated his family.

Now, I'm not saying that Gracie's father is in that category. But cases like my father's and that other a2ker's destroy your putative rule that parents automatically deserve the solidarity of other grownups. If you think it's irresponsible to reject this rule, so be it. I reject it anyway.

1 Reply

How old were you when you had your 1st boyfriend/girlfriend?

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