islam and homosexuality

@djjd62,

Resonse: Likewise.

0 Replies

@djjd62,

Umm, I suppose I said something to you then.. too farking much for you? Mr 'be quiet about what should really be true'.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

People of all ideologies belive differently, despite claiming the same ideology. That does not prove anything. Secondly, my view is the teaching of islam, supprted by your inability to show otherwise. So disagreement to it does not change that.

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

And if you are raped, do you change your mind when a loving man would not have done that?

A loving boy might misread signals or push that bit too far, but he will listen!

To "NO!"

Which is why the infidel and the stealer of life, both do this to your loving sons, they whittle them and then force them!. That this argument ends in red with pink and equality is not then yours!.

Pain is not wearing a gown, it is wearing a shame and a fear!.

1 Reply

@nothingtodo,

Rape does not have to do with lust. It is a crime of violence, not a crime of lust.

(if you want to understand it, there are over 3.8 million google hits on the subject - it is heavily studied)

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

I will see you in Hell.
Silly women, you think they do not glow to lust?

Why not just beat you?

You live in illuminati perpetuation of navigatable intelligences.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

I am mostly on your side here EhBeth. But I have a hard time not objecting to "argument by google hits". You can make your case without invalid arguments.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I'm going to post more on the subject on the weekend - thought I'd let the lad start doing some of his own reading.

2 Replies

@Al-Fatihah,

I disagree strongly with Al-Fatihah but I will say this. He is consistent.

He believes that heterosexual sex for the wrong reason is just as bad as homosexual sex.

And he implies that if homosexuals do love each other, then homosexual sex would not be a bad thing (although he asserts that this is impossible).

I will give him some credit for fairness.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Reading?
Have you met rapists at least?
Or moreso their minds!

Have you met the loving boys and seen how they weep?

Google?
Nevermind what a billion like you think.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

I would be happy to discuss this. It really doesn't belong in this thread. I wasn't really objecting to your point, just your method of argument.

I do think that the phrase "rape is not sex" is more of a political narrative then anything scientific. But again, this has nothing to do with this discussion with Al-Fatihah.

0 Replies

@Al-Fatihah,

Al-Fatihah wrote:

Secondly, my view is the teaching of islam, supprted by your inability to show otherwise.

Quote:

ETJC begins with the understanding that women and men are equal agents of Allah in all aspects of ritual practice, regardless of their sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, age, race, class, dis/ability, HIV status, language, or any other grounds.

Dr. Amina Wadud expounds this principle as horizontal reciprocity: we are all interchangeable, and only Allah is Akbar.

http://salaamcanada.org/el-tawhid-juma-circle-mos[img][/img]ques/

Quote:

According to the Encyclopedia of Islam and the Muslim World

Whatever the legal strictures on sexual activity, the positive expression of male homeoerotic sentiment in literature was accepted, and assiduously cultivated, from the late eighth century until modern times.

First in Arabic, but later also in Persian, Turkish and Urdu, love poetry by men about boys more than competed with that about women, it overwhelmed it.

Anecdotal literature reinforces this impression of general societal acceptance of the public celebration of male-male love (which hostile Western caricatures of Islamic societies in medieval and early modern times simply exaggerate).[18]

In a tradition from the Arabian Nights, a collection of myths and folk tales, Muhammad was said to have warned his followers against staring at youth because of their beauty: "Be careful, do not gaze at beardless youth, for they have eyes more tempting than the houris."[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

the wonderful MC Jazz tells us

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8rpysTaDg1rcgiy1o1_250.png

http://mcjazzmusic.tumblr.com/

and learn from Irshad Manji

Quote:

Throughout those years, and to this day, Irshad studies Islam in the belief that what she received at the madressa was not education but indoctrination. As Irshad explains, “education unleashes the permission to think; indoctrination quashes it.” Hence the passion that Irshad feels for renewing Islam’s own tradition of ijtihad, or creative thinking.

https://www.irshadmanji.com/About-Irshad

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Response: The posts only helped to prove my point. Islam is the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah. Yet you provided nothing from the Qur'an or Sunnah saying that homosexuality is okay. So the argument is invalid.

The Qur'an does state however,

"Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81

"What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk." Qur'an 26:165.

Here, the Qur'an addresses homosexuality as being deribed from lust, as well as condemning it.

The Qur'an also states:

It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful (7:189)

Here, the Qur'an states that man's mate is a woman, thus condoning heterosexuality.

So it is clear that the teachings of islam condones heterosexual relations and condemns homosexuality.

3 Replies

@Al-Fatihah,

Al-Fatihah wrote:

So it is clear that the teachings of islam condones heterosexual relations and condemns homosexuality.

Yeah, that's clear. The rest is simply rationalization.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

It seems to me that you two aren't that far apart.

All you have to do is show Al-Fatihah a homosexual couple that loves each other, and he will agree that homosexuality is not wrong. This is not that difficult. That seems quite reasonable. It seems likely that Al-Fatihah has not had the opportunity to meet many homosexual couples.

He has basically agreed that homosexual couples and heterosexuals couples are the same provided they act based on lust instead of love. And conversely he agrees that a homosexual couple that did love each other would be doing nothing wrong. This seems to me to be a very moderate position.

He just needs to meet a loving couple. That's all.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It seems to me that you two aren't that far apart.

maxdancona wrote:

All you have to do is show Al-Fatihah a homosexual couple that loves each other, and he will agree that homosexuality is not wrong. This is not that difficult. That seems quite reasonable.

No, that wouldn't change anything. Al has defined homosexual relations as "lustful." Therefore, by definition, no homosexual couple can have a loving, non-lustful relationship.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

I know of several homosexual couples who actually agree with me as well. I even witnessed a lesbian a gay man argue over it at work, where the gay guy argued it's natural and the lesbian argued it's a choice. I even know lesbians who have crushes on me, yet claim to be lesbians. So I know first hand from homosexuals themselves, and common sense, that homosexual sex is based on lust, not love.

2 Replies

@Al-Fatihah,

You are backing off of what I thought was the reasonable part of your position.

You do agree that if there were a homosexual couple that did love each other, than it would fine for them to be together, right? That is what you seem to have been saying.

You are claiming that not even a single homosexual couple like that exists, but that is a different argument. If that really is your reasoning, then meeting a single homosexual couple with a loving relationship would change your mind.

1 Reply

@Al-Fatihah,

you have not addressed my post at all

so we'll do it section by section

starting with

How do explain away this message from the Qur'an?

1 Reply

@Al-Fatihah,

Al-Fatihah wrote:

Yet you provided nothing from the Qur'an

does the Qur'an not speak against you lying?

1 Reply

islam and homosexuality

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know