So my sister is getting married, but...

Unfortunately, there are thousands of Cjhsa's 40 miles southeast of us.

I think he said he lives in Michigan.

Respectfully, Squinney, I am uncertain as to the significance
of a (possibly) forthcoming wedding, if the bad guy has had
factual possession of her in that thay have shared the same
house (and presumably, the same bed every nite) for the last 2 years.

Taking a step back for perspective,
is this possible marriage only adding a technical legal imprimatur
to what has been an accomplished fact for years, now ?

I called her Saturday evening and asked if she wanted to meet around lunch on Sunday and have a "girl day." She said she would have to see re: taking his grandson out on the river to fish. If his daughter didn't call to arrange it / follow up, then yes.

So, she called me around 11am and said we were on. I told her I would be there around 12:45. When I arrived his truck was gone, house locked up, no answer. ... ****!

I called her. Whew! They were about three minutes away on their way back from having lunch. He was cordial on arrival. Unlocked the door quickly since in our phone call I had requested use of their facilities before we went out. We talked for ten minutes, normal stuff, everything upbeat.

When we got out I told her I was concerned, I love her, I don't want her to find herself in a position of not being able to leave, she needs to save her money... yet, I understand wanting to spend some since she hasn't had any for years to spend on herself. She agreed with everything. Said she is staying where she is to save money for a bit, already put aside for moving monies, doesn't feel physically threatened. We had a good talk and seem to be on the same page. She did say that when she got off the phone and told him I had called and we were going for a girls day on Sunday he said "She only invited you?" She said "Yes, it's a girls day." He said "So, she called and invited you to lunch, but not me?" She said, "Yes. It's a girls day." He said that wasn't right and she told him if her sister calls and wants to go to lunch or out for the day she's gonna go and he could just get over it. it doesn't mean he's being rejected or anything like that and it is perfectly normal for people to go out and do things with family members, friends or whoever on their own... we aren't attached at the hip. He said then he'd go to the beach to see his brother. She told him good, go, have fun. Ended the conversation by telling him that his objections were bullshit.

She seems to have a grasp on allowing herself to be herself and not change to fit him, or worry about if she does or says something if it will be acceptable to him. (He constantly tells her "You should have said it this way and then I wouldn't have been upset.) She has seen what was going on and is just going to be / act like herself and not worry about it. If he changes and accepts her as she is good. If not...

David - There is no common law in NC. Mental common law, perhaps. But, not legal.

Agreed with squinney. I don't think common law kicks in that fast anywhere, even where they have it (not sure though).

People often live together for a stretch before they decide to get married. "I will live with you" does NOT equal "I will marry you." I lived with my husband for 2.5 years before we got engaged (and married him 1.5 years later, for a total of 4 years of unmarried cohabitation). He asked me to marry him at about the right time -- I probably wouldn't have said yes before that, though I'm happy we ended up together.

Point is -- living together is a big step but getting married is a whole 'nother level. Squinney's sister's boyfriend has no particular claim on her. He certainly doesn't already HAVE her (not that he would if they get married, either).

Squinney -- sounds encouraging. The main thing I worry about at this point is the carrot of the settlement money. That is, if your sister lays out what her boyfriend needs to do to stick around, I can imagine him doing it -- just as long as he needs to. Once the wedding happens and he has a claim to the settlement money, I can imagine things going downhill fast once he doesn't have the same need to behave himself.

Agreed that that is a concern, soz. It isn't that much money. Certainly enough to comfortably get her out on her own in a rental with utilities deposits, first and last months rent and maybe a month or so past that even if she wasn't working.

One of the things that made her back off the wedding was him saying (knowing about the settlement) that he didn't want to enter into marriage with any debts - clean slate. He had purchased a living room set, dining table, bedroom set package last year with one year no interest or payments. He asked her what she could pay towards it if for some reason he was to not have income for a while. (he works construction and is finishing one job) She said an amount she would have left over after rent and utilities from her paycheck and he said "Could you do that every month? Cause once you pay that you have made a committment. That's your word. I want your word that you could pay that much every month." She said that's not how it works. They would tell him the minimum monthly payment and if more is paid one month, fine, but that doesn't mean you have to pay that every month. He said he knew what he was talking about. Two hour discussion followed. Wedding was called off.

To that extent I think it is about the money, but in fairness, she has not been working consistantly and he has been paying for everything. Granted her not working in part was due to him stressing her about wanting her home when he got home and not liking that she was in contact with guys as co-workers and customers, etc. Still, she allowed it. (shrug)

She seems to have a good grasp of what is happening. She's aware of her own relationship patterns and her need to break that. I know how long and painful growth can be, so I told her I'd be here, I love her and that "Hey, if he changes... If you find that he does accept you being you and matures (for lack of better word) into the relationship, then great! I don't dislike him. I just want her to be happy and in a healthy, thriving relationship rather than one that brings her down.

Yes, Bear meant that he thinks she will tell him what we talked about. Not last night or today, but perhaps at some point when they are having an argument or disagreement and it will be said, "Well, even my sister said..." or something along that line. I asked her yesterday to please not do that because it would only damage my relationship with him if they decide to marry later AND it would be used against her as a way to isolate her from me while they are getting along AND it would feed into his need to be all knowing about everything she does and says. She said she absolutely would not repeat and she knew/ understood all of that.

Ha! Talked to her this morning and he DID ask her last night what we talked about. She said we talked about regular stuff, mostly about what we were seeing in the stores, how the kids were doing, that kinda stuff and left it at that.

Did someone mention getting Brooke's input?

Squinney -- that's a classic line of an abuser telling his victim that she's the one who is responsible for his outbursts. Total and complete bullshit, of course, but once they both accept that logic it's all downhill from there.

as little as one year or a child or a "settled intent" in some jurisdictions

Weird that these control freaks tend to exhibit the same patterns of behavior before they become violent abusers.

BBB

Seems like it needs to be mutual where the time limit is short though -- as in, both people make some sort of statement of wanting to be married to the other.

Anyway, moot since NC doesn't have common-law marriage...

I can see him cleaning up his act short-term and then immediately regressing once the marriage happens.

Glad you're still talking to her, squinney... sounds like you're giving her some really good advice.

What 'd Carl Jung have to say about that ?

Squinney ...... a glimpse into my mind, as a victim: (long, but PLEASE read)

I loved this man with all of me. Real mutual love. No head games. At night when he held me in his arms and said “I love you” ….I would fall into such a peaceful sleep…..knowing it was true. I never dreamed love could be like that. So pure. Everyone was happy for us. We became engaged. I couldn’t wait to spend the rest of my life feeling this mans love. And loving him back.

Days turned into weeks.
Weeks turned into differences.
Differences turned into disagreements
Disagreements turned into fights.
Fights turned into confusing attacks.
Confusing attacks turned into attempts to understand.
Attempts to understand turned into self righteous slams.
Slams turned into attempts at self defense.
Self defense turned into a multitude of insults and even greater beatings.
Insults turned into a deep enveloping fog
Fog turned into being called crazy.

And all of that ……..turned into silence.

I believe in the power within. The power to overcome. The power to live your life in the manner that you wish. Happiness. Serenity . I also believe that sometimes that power can be taken away. Without you even realizing what is happening. I believe love has so much power over us at times…that we can become removed from ourselves. Many times an abusive relationship starts out with a love unlike anything ever felt before. The abuser may take great care to see that this happens.

That love becomes the well from which an abuser draws his power from. The more he feeds you his love, the stronger his power. As he turns on you…he can even make you feel that, yes.....it must be my fault. After all….things were so good in the beginning. Almost fairy tale like. And why wouldn’t I think that……I mean, he keeps feeding the thoughts into my head that “IF” I had not done that…. He would not have done what he did.

I started to feel like, yes……it was my fault. I was ashamed. Therefore, I was silent. I would have died if anyone found out what a bad person I must have been. And I must have been bad for causing this man to hurt me. He never hurt anyone before me. Or had he? I only know what I was told, after all.

Confusion.

And more confusion.

I no longer was able to think for myself. To go out with friends. Go see family. God help me if another man so much as looked at me. I said to myself .....Why don’t I leave? Is there some way that I can change him? That I can make it right again? What’s wrong with me? I wanted to go back in time. I wanted to find what we used to have. I missed the man I fell in love with.

The beatings were making me numb. I had learned many things. Not just how to be silent. But how to coil up into a ball…to protect my kidneys. My ribs. My stomach. With each beating, he needed to regain his power. I must have said something. Or done something, again. He’ll stop in a minute. And if he doesn’t ……he will kill me. Then I will be set free. Perhaps that is the only way.

Therefore…..I really didn’t care……anymore. Death could not be worse than my life. So I prayed for death.

I, as a victim, would do everything in my power to NOT let anyone know. It becomes a deep seeded way of thinking. A need. No one can know. If they find out……they will know I am bad. Then no one will believe in me. I believed not in myself, anymore. But maybe…..I could feel “their” belief in me. It was something to hold onto, at least.

Mark, as an abuser……. Took great care to beat me on parts of my body that I could cover up. And the times he did not…..I would not go anywhere. If it meant calling in sick to work….so be it. He took great care to keep me away from anyone that was a threat to him. Every guy that walked the street was a threat. I didn't dare speak to another man. It wasn't worth his anger, if I did. Family...a threat.

I am sorry the above is so long. I just hope you can see what it is that I am trying to show you. Make no mistake.....if I hadn't gotten so good at hiding what was happening to me....my dad would have killed him. Literally. Victims can be extremely good at this.

The things that this man is saying to your sister…..are all classic warning signs. If he has not abused her physically, .... he already is mentally. If he gets tried of that and needs something “stronger” to keep her “in line”, I fear greatly for her.

Squinney……..I have read your posts, long enough on this forum, to know that she has a very wonderful sister, in you. I believe you can help her. Even if she doesn’t leave this man. Do all you have to do……to stay in contact.

If she were to read a book on abuse……she may see this man she loves, inside that book. And herself. Sometimes that is world shattering to a victim in denial. To see their life illuminated on the pages in a way that she has felt. Only without the denial. The blame. The mind blocking. And while it may make her feel sick…..it also brings forth validation. One of the best books that comes to my mind is a book by Lundy Bancroft called “Why Does He Do That?: Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men.” Of course, any book of that nature would need a good hiding place within the home.

I feel sick for her. And for you. I know you love her. I know you feel helpless at times.

Hold onto your strength. And keep your eyes open. And talk softly to her. It's just about all you've got.......for now.

What happened ?

Did u escape ?




U r a very good writer.





David

Ah, Brook. I'm so glad you showed up. Thank you!

She isn't one to cower. She would be overpowered by him physically, but she would make sure he was hurt, too. I don't want it to get to that point.

It's more the mind games and control that I worry about at this time. BTW, I really don't think he knows he's even doing this. He isn't likely planning things out, or thinking "If I say this then she'll feel obligated or guilty or..." He isn't that bright. Not that he's stupid, just not bright enough to go through all of that mentally.

From your experience is it just somehow engrained?

2 years here.

There seems to be a manual abusive people all get issued with.

It even has scripts.


It seems kind of weird...but I suppose they are dealing with similar pathology.

Their paradigm appears to derive from a common Jungian archetype

Or not.