So my sister is getting married, but...

Squinny, your sister needs a serious talking. This does not sound good at all.

Maybe collect some of the stories from the various "he hit me!" threads here for her to read. All the classic signs are there and the actions you are describing fall into that list of warning signs.

Have you met his parents? Do his parents give you the impression that there is or has been abuse in their family? Is this his first marriage? Has anyone done a background check on him?

Pings for sure.

My quandary would not be whether to apologize but whether to tell her all my qualms. I'll probably align with ehBeth's view on that, just telling her that you are here for her, but he seems like a potential explosive sort. Dunno, re whether to come out against him much less if it would do any good. Aside from the aisle command (yikes) there's the gun thing relative to him in particular.

Already I'm thinking about women's shelters and how to escape situations.. which some people on a2k are very wise about.

Trying to figure out what I'd do if my niece were in this fix, but... she wouldn't be.

(((squinney)))

Haven't met his parents. They are estranged - well his dad is anyways. Mom is apparently just strange. They do not get along. This will be his second marriage. Two young adult children from the first marriage. Daughter isn't thrilled. I don't know all the dynamics, but have heard that she is close to her Mom. Not sure how the son feels about it. Sister and groom said son was really excited and happy for them when they told him. Story is that first wife cheated on him and that is why he is insecure. That may be the case, but doesn't excuse the rest.

I don't want to blow things out of proportion. I'm sure they do have good times. We've had good outings and gatherings where I was included. I'm SURE she wouldn't put up with physical abuse. She's a scrapper and survivor.

roger, so often you take the words right out of my mouth.


this guy sure gets insulted a lot, doesn't he?

I've seen women in particular put up with all kinds of **** just to 'march down the aisle'. Sounds to me like your sister, 40, never married, is tuning out the bullying nature of his demands to take that walk but we all know that he will only become more demanding and more bullying as time goes on. It's your sister that needs to wake up but if she chooses to go through with it, prepare for the day when it'll be on you to pick up the pieces.

Personally, I would take issue with my sister accepting his talking to me that way. Issuing threats and warnings? Imagine how he must talk to her???? And the stuff she doesn't tell you.

I hope that she has lived with guys....if she is trying to live with a guy for the first time at 40 her odds of being able to make the transition are not good.

It seems to me
that u need to privately acknowledge this to be a struggle,
a battle to save your sister from a super-control freak,
who is after her money. He has already laid the groundwork
for the isolation process: "these people have insulted me; who 's side
are u on ? You r with me or against me."

U can try to undermine that by humoring him.
If u do not respect the state of his mental health,
and if u see him as a clear and present danger to your family,
then u can employ guile in the defense of your family.

In this case, that means an effusive super-apology,
with assurances that u meant only to delight him with amusement.
Support that with respectful adulation and NO humor.
Tell him the hat is terrific and admire his taste in selecting it.
When he complains of more insults from others, take HIS side.
Don 't laff when u do it.
He will wish to isolate her anyway, but u give him less justification.
Perhaps he will fear u less, in consequence.

U might consider putting out the word
in your family, that no one shoud use humor in his presence.


Its scary to wonder how much mental pathology
is below the waterline on this iceberg of heavy-duty control.

If your sister asks your opinion,
take your opportunity to tell her the truth
of what u think, and the evidentiary reasons for it,
if u believe that she is open to reason.

If your sister leaves him,
it might be safer to not give him to believe
that any member of your family influenced her departure.

Good Luck



David

should have said also that the problem might be mutual...guys who have been bachelors for decades rarely can manage to live with a woman....they are too set in their ways.

To use Rockhead's words,

Ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping....

"He told her that when they are together they are together and for her to not stay at his side, go down another aisle without him, meant she didn't really mentally think of them as together and that when she did that he worried about where she might be."



Scarey super ping.

No kidding!

Talk about having someone on a psychological leash...

nobody is on a leash who does not want to be....Trying to make them want something different usually does not work.

History includes controlfreak husbands having kept their wives
in slavery and in solitary confinement, within their own homes,
their windows having been boarded up and doors locked from
the outside for YEARS, by said freak.

Perhaps it is a worthwhile effort
to try to avoid that ?

tho, alas, u may well be right, that it proves futile

I kinda got the ping thing going too Squinney.

Walking down an aisle in Walmart, by his side, so they are therefore "together"..... errrrrrrrrm....... and she wishes to walk down the aisle in matrimony with this chap. Gosh. Braver woman than I!!!!!

Being brutally blunt... I think the never been married bit may be clouding her judgement - I would love to be completely wrong there tho. Everyone goes into and lives their marriage in different ways. Everyone has their "own way" in marriage. What you will or won't tolerate; what is or isn't acceptable; and people change in marriage, circumstances change, and thru the years compromise comes into the play...... or divorce if that doesn't work.

Thing is.... these pings are before they are married.... not wedding jitter nerves, they are 40+ and maybe kinda set in their ways. Sis wants to be married. He's been married before and if, as you believe, his wife cheated on him - then he may have trust issues. But seriously, those are his issues and his previous relationship with your sister doesn't sound too trusting/compromising etc... if she cannot walk in a supermarket without being by his side. Of course, many folk are like that - but your sister does seem to question this quirk too...or put up with it - and put you in the position of having to do what the chap says. What if you wanted to take her off for a coffee whilst he shops for boxer shorts and he says "no". It sounds a little extreme, rather than a quirk.

I dunno Squinney - I guess I'm differering from some who are saying step back and let her go ahead silently.... I think I would have to say something if it were my sister - your relationship with her has been your whole life and you could say it in such a way that would not be offiensive or derogatory to her - and also let her know you would support her with any decisions she makes - but also let know that this sort of "controlling quirk" that he displays, and the things he has said to you, and your PaPa - are wee red flags blowing in the wind.

If sister really loves the fella and wants to get married and all the caboodle... then she will reassure you that she understands what you are saying and give reasonable, understandable explanations (can't think of another word there) - well, she won't get all pissy if she feels safe and secure in what she is doing and feels certain this marriage will work. If she goes off on one - and gets pissy and angry.... I'd say the gal was a little scared and her own red flags might already be there.

It is a tough line there.... you don't want to upset before her wedding - but also, you don't want her to go through with a wedding for the wrong reasons. Divorce is a much tougher and heartbreaking route than backing out of a wedding.

What would worry me - for example - imagine being at the wedding and a few chaps - Bear included, wish to whisk her round the dance floor. Or.... the "hen nite" (batchelorette party I think you call it)..... or in a couple years, her going out to quilting club - you know what I'm saying - is she going to be able to have her own sense of identity - or is she going to be tied to the kitchen sink unless he is with her. Of course, many women choose to stay at home by their mans side - nothing wrong with that - but this chaps "quirks" coming across as veiled threats with "but I have never hit a woman".... really pings my pinger gal.

Certainly, even stateside, different cultures - I could not live my friends life in Texas where what hubby says goes, and in their house, no-one has the right to an opinion, and if they do, they will be shouted down. Each to their own.

Just talking, carefully, to your sister, may allay your worries... but your worries are there already, and Bear's would be too... let her know you will always be there for her, but, and only my opinion, I would try and talk to her and see if you think she is going through the motions because she wishes to be married. It doesn't need to be blown out of proportion - you're looking out for your kid sister so you know how to talk with her. It sounds bigger, possibly disproportionate, on here (A2K) coz there's a whole world of differing opinions and experiences and we're all biased in our way. But you know your sister, and what you may think is right or wrong, may not be what she thinks is right or wrong. Just needs to be weighed up. Don't ever regret not talking to her and biting your tongue tho. If she gets hurt..... yep, it's her hurt.... but you'll hurt too. Talk to her methinks.

Also, if kids are involved from a previous marriage, she may get a rough ride from the daughter by the sounds of it, how will hubby react to that - or will she have to do what the daughter tells her to do too. That's a whole other rollercoaster to go into marriage with.



Very good luck Squinney - hope you let us know how things go. x

I agree, Hawkeye, that no one is on a leash without wanting to be. Not always the case, as with slavery, but in relationships of choice I understand where you are coming from with that statement.

Nodding along in agreement here, too. "With me or against me..." yep. I can see an effusive apology... (gag) but yes. your reasoning makes sense.

Getting the word out on no humor would be tough. We are a laughing family. We joke. We love one another through thick and thin. We don't desert family. Putting the word out might actually cause others to doubt the authenticity of the relationship (they have never met him and know nothing outside of what sister has told them long distance) and may lead some to not attend. That would be more hurtful to sister than I can imagine.

"...it might be safer to not give him to believe
that any member of your family influenced her departure." Agree, again.

Good luck? Oh, thanks, David. Can't you just come handle this for me?

much of David's post here makes good sense to me.

He has started to isolate her, will likely to continue to do so regardless of what you do - but you might be able to keep a bit of an eye on things if he doesn't see you as a direct threat.

Thanks, Izzie. I tried to broach it all carefully yesterday even before I was clued into him being upset with me. She does reassure me that she loves him, that he loves her, that they are happy, that they have worked through so much, that she is aware of there being issues but that they are working through them... That's when I dropped it.

I had also asked daughter over lunch how she and her boyfriend are doing. Are they still going to church? He goes with his family every week, does she go with him always? sometimes? Knowing she isn't especially religious, I wondered how accepting he was of her views. She said she goes sometimes. depends on her work schedule and looked confused about me questioning if he accepts her... She kinda laughed and said "well, yeah," as if that should be obvious and for it to be otherwise would be strange to her.

Later, after dropping daughter off, sister and I were talking and I commented on how the younger generation has a whole different attitude about acceptance and how daughter wouldn't dream of changing to "fit' a relationship but that sister and I would/ have / do adjust our personalities and "self" to foster relationships. I didn't purposely make that point. The connection was just made and started coming out of my mouth without thinking. That was when she started assuring me that all was well and I caught myself chewing the heck out of the inside of my cheek as I drove.

Hopefully she knows what you mean, without having to really acknowledge it.

Frankly, I think anyone who doesn't drop someone who isn't ready to do some SERIOUS work (and likely not even then) after that aisle remark is in deep doody, in my view.


Blessings and fortune on them.

Ping to the eleventh power.

If he is trying to isolate her, he may also be trying to get her to think that your family is somehow doing not only him wrong, but her wrong. In accordance with David's idea, it might be a good idea to be, well, very positive with her. I'm not suggesting not to tell her the truth, but rather to be super-supportive, more supportive than usual.

If she feels he's the only source of support, and that family is overly judgmental, or too hard to deal with, she'll keep going back to him, and it will continue to feel like the new normal to her. She wants to show that she's grown-up, independent and making good choices. Even if you think the choice is a lousy one, she needs some assurance of her autonomy. Hope that makes sense.