At least it achieves nothing.
Making up scenarios that fit a purpose but are unlikely situations is not honest. Therefore it's cheating...
Well, let's say:
Montana moves to a big city where there are plenty of handsome men.
What are the chances she falls in love with the smartest, richest, more educated one, marry him and and lives happy then after till death do they part?
Francis wrote:Well, let's say:
Montana moves to a big city where there are plenty of handsome men.
What are the chances she falls in love with the smartest, richest, more educated one, marry him and and lives happy then after till death do they part?
No chance - unless she makes the choice to meet him first.
So, back to your scenario I modified:
What are the chances she falls in love with the gay guy marry him and and lives happy then after till death do they part?
Francis wrote:So, back to your scenario I modified:
What are the chances she falls in love with the gay guy marry him and and lives happy then after till death do they part?
Your question begs for more than one answer; however I will give it a go.
She could certainly choose to fall in love with a gay guy.
It is highly doubtful they will both choose to marry given that he is gay.
"Happy then after till death do they part" - then becomes moot.
baddog1 wrote:CalamityJane wrote:I disagree!
You're certainly entitled to disagree; however consider this:
You move to a new (small) town and there are only 3 men that you will come into any meaningful contact with each day.
Man #1 is physically attractive to you, well kept, educated, respectful, respected and is considerate to all.
Man #2 is not attractive to you, bathes perhaps once every week or two, loudly considers women to be only good for sex and steals from anyone he can.
Man # 3 is average looking, kind of quiet, yet you hear about & verify that he is an active pedophile.
Would you consider that all 3 men have an equal opportunity for you to fall in love with them?
What if I don't fall in love with either of them? You don't seem to grasp
that love or should I say infatuation is something that happens without
choice. There are so many factors in this - hormones, pheromones,
smell, etc. that trigger a reaction from us why we find this person attractive and not the other. Choice is none of them, however, you do
have a choice if you want to act on your feelings or not.
So you can see that your scenario achieve no purpose at all.
You are trying to evade the real questions of life in order that they match your beliefs.
Fortunately, there's people out there that are much more sound and logic...
CalamityJane wrote:baddog1 wrote:CalamityJane wrote:I disagree!
You're certainly entitled to disagree; however consider this:
You move to a new (small) town and there are only 3 men that you will come into any meaningful contact with each day.
Man #1 is physically attractive to you, well kept, educated, respectful, respected and is considerate to all.
Man #2 is not attractive to you, bathes perhaps once every week or two, loudly considers women to be only good for sex and steals from anyone he can.
Man # 3 is average looking, kind of quiet, yet you hear about & verify that he is an active pedophile.
Would you consider that all 3 men have an equal opportunity for you to fall in love with them?
What if I don't fall in love with either of them? You don't seem to grasp
that love or should I say infatuation is something that happens without
choice. There are so many factors in this - hormones, pheromones,
smell, etc. that trigger a reaction from us why we find this person attractive and not the other. Choice is none of them, however, you do
have a choice if you want to act on your feelings or not.
Choice has everything to do with this subject. The 'feeling' factors that you describe (hormones, phermones et al) will
NEVER happen unless/until you
make the choice to put yourself into a position for those feelings to begin.
Which is exactly why those who are committed to their marriage - should
make the choice - not to put themselves in a position for the hormones/phermones to trigger in the first place.
Well, I disagree, strongly actually.
When it comes to feelings, infatuation, attraction - those feelings are uncontrollably there, you can't make a choice not to fall in love, you
simply can't. The feelings are there.
As I said: you can make a choice to act on them or not, but you cannot
control the feeling of infatuation, and believe me, it happens when you
least expect it.
Francis wrote:So you can see that your scenario achieve no purpose at all.
You are trying to evade the real questions of life in order that they match your beliefs.
Fortunately, there's people out there that are much more sound and logic...
My scenario serves the purpose very well. It produces a situation that is small enough so as not to get side-tracked by incidental issues and provides for 3 different possibilities. By admission - Montana claims (and others concur) that they "have never fallen in and out of love by choice". There were no other parameters included - just a basic belief that choice has nothing to do with it.
Given my scenario - Montana would as easily fall in love with the pedophile as she would either of the other two men; because the power of choice is not a factor.
NOW - consider Montana lives in a larger town, (say Helena for instance) with at least 1M men available. (Which means a more diverse group to choose from). Given her position on choice - she has no control over who she will fall in love with. He could be a rapist, a philanthropist, a gay guy, a priest, and so on. By her own admission - she could fall in love with any - because it is out of her control.
baddog1 wrote:Given her position on choice - she has no control over who she will fall in love with. He could be a rapist, a philanthropist, a gay guy, a priest, and so on. By her own admission - she could fall in love with any - because it is out of her control.
That's precisely how people end up in relationships with really inappropriate/bad people. They fall in love. The chemistry over-rides their common sense.
Baddog - I rarely engage in debates, especially with stubborn religionists.
Rational thinking is beyond their grasp, even the most logic and sound arguments never strike them.
Only people blindsided can imagine a town with three men: The good, the bad and the ugly...
Francis wrote:Baddog - I rarely engage in debates, especially with stubborn religionists.
Rational thinking is beyond their grasp, even the most logic and sound arguments never strike them.
Only people blindsided can imagine a town with three men: The good, the bad and the ugly...
Now you resort to innuendos and name-calling because I disagree with your position. I thank you for rarely engaging in debates and completely understand why. :wink:
ehBeth wrote:baddog1 wrote:Given her position on choice - she has no control over who she will fall in love with. He could be a rapist, a philanthropist, a gay guy, a priest, and so on. By her own admission - she could fall in love with any - because it is out of her control.
That's precisely how people end up in relationships with really inappropriate/bad people. They fall in love. The chemistry over-rides their common sense.
Thank you ehBeth for eloquently summarizing what I've been shouting about!
baddog1 wrote:Now you resort to innuendos and name-calling because I disagree with your position. I thank you for rarely engaging in debates and completely understand why. :wink:
That's pitiful one have to have the last word.
Can you tell me what position I stated?
How can you debate if you don't read other posters properly?
baddog1 wrote:Francis wrote:Well, let's say:
Montana moves to a big city where there are plenty of handsome men.
What are the chances she falls in love with the smartest, richest, more educated one, marry him and and lives happy then after till death do they part?
No chance - unless she makes the choice to meet him first.
Wrong! My feelings about a man I may be attracted too has absolutely nothing to do with money or anything other than pure chemistry.
If I had 2 handsome men in front of me, one being rich, smart and all that other stuff and the other being just an average guy, I'd most likely fall for the average guy.
I've had rich, smart men throughout my life who wanted to give me the world on a silver platter, but my heart wasn't in it, therefor, I had no choice.
Believe me, I wish I had that choice! Then I could have prevented falling in love with a few losers.
Damn! I wish it was that easy
I haven't been following close enough to make up my mind, but wasn't this thread originally started by some woman looking for advice on how to dupe her husband? I think that is different than falling in love with a loser. I doubt if this woman (the author) really has any idea of how she feels about the other man, other than it is really exciting to have a secret love interest on the side. I'm not sure long term commitment is achieved by indulging in an affair. I'm not making a value judgement, I'm only responsible for myself in how I show respect to my husband by remaining faithful, physically and emotionally. Both of us had unhappy marriages that ended way before the two of us ever met. I know what it's like to married to a hound, decided I would rather remain single before I would allow anyone else to treat me so badly or be a role model for my son.
I will say that there is a lot to be gained by a powerful bond between a man and a woman when they decide they are a family. We have shared happiness and sadness and cared for children, sick elderly parents and are still here to live and enjoy life together.
I think that everyone should also consider the walking wounded of an illicit affair. Children of cheaters normally find out and they don't like that kind of knowledge. As careful as people think they are while sneaking around, someone always notices. If the one who notices is a gossip then everybody hears about it right away and the entire town is on affair alert. If it's a close friend who discovers the affair, you have put your friend in a terrible position. You need to think if it's really the right thing to strain your friendship over. But, sadly,,,,,,,people always find a compelling reason to do whatever they want to do, at least I've learned that over the years. A close family member was blatantly unfaithful to his wife, and subjected her to a lot of public humiliation. After the divorce has tried to make his ex-wife look like the bad-guy. She may not have been a picnic, but he engaged in a little over-kill by the way he treated her and both sides of family experienced pain over the divorce. His children are my young relatives and when they ask me what happened I feel very torn. I can't say bad things about their mother because she is a decent woman, and I can't confirm everything their father says because I know much of it is a lie. Everyone can keep their mouth shut and the kids will still figure things out.
So the woman who originally started this thread needs to make up her mind what she wants to do and then figure out how she wants to control damage if she makes a bad or hurtful decision. Nothing anybody says here is going to make a dent in the argument she has made for herself.
Just an update.
My wife knows. We're in counseling, but the marriage will be ending.
