married and started affair with an old flame....

caribou wrote:

This needs to be about the kids. Both of you are going through so much right now. But, the kids need to come first. And the two of you need to pull yourselves out of your abysses enough to realize that and find a way to work things out for the best interests of the kids. No matter what the emotional upheaval and turmoil, you both are still the parents and it's still your job to see that the kids are okay.

Yup, yep, and yes. There are adults in this saga and there are children in this saga and when the adults forget that they are the adults and forget that the children are the unfortunate bystanders of the drama then it's more than aggravating.

Jake, personal introspection is exactly what you are doing and what you should be doing. If your wife can't see that she's a part of what your family is facing then it falls to you to be the grownup. Not that you need more burdens in your life right now, but I really think that you need to be there for your kids.

You will get through this. I can tell by the thoughts you've posted here that no matter how confused or discombobulated you may feel, you're trying to sort it all out. Good for you. It takes time and it takes patience but I do think you'll see your way clear.

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Yeah, from your posts, Jake, I think you're going to be okay.

You took the hard road,
but making mistakes and learning from them, that's not all bad.

Stay strong.

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Wellllllll. I'll express some discomfort that Jake is so willing, seemingly, to be the person at fault -- though you mostly emphasize that you should have dealt with the marriage first, Jake, and of course I agree. I don't think you got where you are in a vacuum, though. Blame can be thick on the road, even self blame, and can get in the way of understanding dynamics.

Again, I've no idea if you should stay past when you can afford to get out, or leave, so that all can move on and grow (keeping close to the children, at the least).

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I am one who personally thinks Jake needs to leave, yet stay close by for the kids. He feels his wife is a good mother, so since her heart has been torn out, I truly believe he needs to get out of her face.
I know if I was the wife, he wouldn't have had much of a choice because I would have thrown his ass out or left myself if he didn't leave.
One thing for sure is that it doesn't help the kids one bit by Jake being there. As long as Jake is in moms face, mom is going to be angry and I know I couldn't even imagine living in a situation like that.

If Jake is concerned about the well being of the kids and his wifes drinking, then he needs to look into getting custody of the kids. Either way, Jakes wife will never recover from this trama until Jake is gone, that I know.

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Neither Jake or his Wife will be moving forward with their lives as long as they live under the same roof.

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hmmm, I'm not so sure of that. Moving forward doesn't always involve separating.

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caribou wrote:

Neither Jake or his Wife will be moving forward with their lives as long as they live under the same roof.

I agree. If the marriage is over, then there's no reason for them to live together.

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JPB wrote:

hmmm, I'm not so sure of that. Moving forward doesn't always involve separating.

Maybe not always, but in a situation such as this one, I think it's the best thing.

I know if I was living with a man who cheated on me, the hurt would be bad enough without him being there and speaking for myself, I would be in a constant state of anger if I had to continue to live with him, which I think is the worst thing for the kids.

They can still both be very active in their kids lives without having to live in the same house.

I imagine some people would be able to live like that, but I know I couldn't.

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I'm going to look at an apartment tonight. Two blocks away from my house.

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jake123 wrote:

I'm going to look at an apartment tonight. Two blocks away from my house.

I didn't get to see the place, the key was not in the lock box where the landlord said it would be.

Anyway, the point is: I've looked at this from a lot of perspectives. Right now, it is best I move out. My wife seems to have stabilized. She says she doesn't have any more mean for me...that remains to be seen.

Montana, I'm with you on this one. My presense in the home is just a source of more hurt and anger than she can bear.

I'm looking for some place close by so I can still be there for the children. My wife is looking at a job working 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. Perfect for me to be there to watch the kids.

We can work together. We're both mostly rational, intelligent people. And we both love our children.

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jake123 wrote:

Quote:
Frankly, the things she described to you, are really to be expected
when your marriage breaks up and you're in an emotional turmoil.

I agree. That's why I will be asking the Psych. about her comment that she thinks I've been depressed for a long time. I do know that it is my choice whether to stay on the meds or not. For now, I feel they've been a help.

I have to mention that for longer than I'd like to admit, I had been "self-medicating" with alcohol. I had been drinking almost every night. Usually to the point of being drunk. For the past two weeks, I did not drink Sun.-Mon. And I took it "easy" on the weekends. I know that two weeks does not a "sober" person make. I haven't had a desire for it though.

Curious: Are you in the counseling profession Jane?

Talking to the Psych., I was told that she thinks I've been depressed at least since my mom died in October of 2000. It's probably been longer than that.

But, to give some background: In June of 2000 I lost a cousin that I was close to. Then my mom in Oct. the same year. Since then, I lost a good friend, Jim to cancer, my grandmother, and the worst blow yet, in June of 2006, my best friend from high school died in a motorcycle accident.

So, it's not just my present circumstances that she's looking at toward my depression. This is just what put me over the edge enough to seek help.

I didn't think to ask, however, about the chemical nature of my depression. It seems to me that with all the loss I've experienced, while filling me with greif and sorrow, should not necessarily indicate chemical imbalance. That's what the meds are supposed to correct, right?

Anyway, I'll ask my counselor about that when I have my next session.

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Jake, I think it's great that you found a place close by and will be spending some major time with your kids while your wife works nights.
As long as you are very much involved in your kids lives and you both keep them out of your personal issues with eachother, they will be spared a ton of burden.

I'm so sorry to hear of all your losses and I can relate because My father died when I was 21, my best friend since we were kids died of cancer 5 years ago and my ex (sons father) died a few years back. My fathers death hit me the hardest and I too got depressed for some years.
I had never thought of it before now, but I had my affair with a married man not long after my father died, so maybe there's a connection.
Not that the connection would give us an excuse, but just something that makes me wonder.

I think you're doing the right thing by moving out, yet staying involved in your kids lives and I wish my ex had done the same thing.
He moved out, but there was little involvement with him and our son, so he was a real dick! My son suffered and I couldn't do a damn thing about it. I begged the man to take part in our sons life, but he prefered spending all his time with his girlfriend, which he brought with him on his rare visits with our son. I could write a book on all the pain this man caused our son, but you get the idea. Our son suffered and even though his father is dead now, I'll always resent him for what he put my baby through. May he rot in hell! Yeah, I'm a little bitter Laughing

I have a huge amount of respect for people who strive to do the right thing and I think you're doing just that. The most important thing is to always be there for your kids Jake.

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Montana, wasn't this the same guy who got physically abusive towards you?
Why would you someone like this in your son's life?
----

Jake, good that you stay on top of your medication and ask the right
question. This is your body and mind that is tempered with, so the more
you know the better.

I would not have advised you to move out, at least not now. You probably
don't have the financial means to run two households and deal with
the emotional turmoil of a possible divorce. Your wife has calmed down
considerably (her hurt and anger are perfectly normal), and this would
be the time to sit down and talk.

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IMO, how unfair it would be to the mother of his children for him to stay in the house. She doesn't need the constant reminder of how her husband no longer loves her.
If there is in fact an issue with her drinking while the kids are in her care maybe extended family should become involved. But I feel there is no way that she can begin to heal and start raising her children as a single mother until he moves out. I'm just speaking from personal experience. Her feelings could be different than mine were.
Jake, I really admire the way you are handling you own feelings. Someday this will all make better sense to both of you. I'm sure you are both really good parents and that your kids know that they are loved.

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Who said she's going to be a single Mom, Marty? They could opt for
joint custody, like many couples do nowadays, but perhaps, they would like to work through this as a couple.

Jake is in therapy, and he might look at the world a bit different now than he did a few weeks ago. Maybe his wife is willing to talk, and maybe they can
salvage their marriage.

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Yes, I think it would be great if they could salvage the marriage. I love happy endings. But when a man decides to divorce his wife and live a seperate life then she becomes a single mom and he becomes a single dad. Am I missing something?

CJ, no offense, I think we have differing opinions on this topic. Doesn;t mean I don't like you or wish to disagree, just means we have differing opinions.

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Oh yes, I know we have different opinions and different experiences, Marty,
that's not a problem for me. I like you just the same. Very Happy

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CalamityJane wrote:

Montana, wasn't this the same guy who got physically abusive towards you?
Why would you someone like this in your son's life?
----

Jake, good that you stay on top of your medication and ask the right
question. This is your body and mind that is tempered with, so the more
you know the better.

I would not have advised you to move out, at least not now. You probably
don't have the financial means to run two households and deal with
the emotional turmoil of a possible divorce. Your wife has calmed down
considerably (her hurt and anger are perfectly normal), and this would
be the time to sit down and talk.

Yes, that's the one who was physically abusive towards me, but never towards our son or I would have killed him myself. No joke!

The man might have been a bastard, but he was my sons father and I know it would have made a huge difference in my sons life if his father had even tried to give a rats ass.

With my ex, the abuse was totally directed at women. He was good to our son, for the most part, in the little time he spent with him.

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I don't get that we need to lump all into various baskets in some kind of eternal way.. I do get that Marty and Montana have grief still going on. Trust me, I get that.

Hello? whatever cads they were, they had a point of view, and I see fear of that is fairly large.

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This thread started with a woman who was cheating. She was dealt with from the "holier than thou" stance. Pretty much stomped on. Now, another person is in the same position and he's being supported and comforted. I'm pretty sure "outaideas" had her pain, too. A2Kers, pahleeze, don't jump on a person from the get go.

"Old flames", old loves have strong pull. I am committed and know that I am here to the end, with my kids, and with the kindest man. Yet... there is a tiniest corner of me with an image of a particular someone - do I really want to open that corner? No.... Just like outaideas and jake123, I know that rules would crumb there, the ground would slid from under my feet, and I would be looking for answers...

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married and started affair with an old flame....

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