Stripper as a wife.

oh, btw, what does "on the ball" "on the man" "jump ready" mean?

see, that's what I mean, you think I'm into all this lingo I have no idea where it's even coming from....or what it means. I don't go on politcal threads, and I really didn't think talking about strippers was going to be some earth changing ****.

sweeping statements, whining, assumptions, caught on something.....wtf?

I mean really. you must think I'm some sort of member of a damn debate team. goes back to your thinking I'm memorizing every little thing that's written here.

you really have no idea what a dumb ass I am, do you?

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Chai wrote:

Primary, the majority of the time, most men visiting a strip club really don't care anything about the woman as a person....(don't go there nimh, I'm talking)

Hey I dont have a beef with that. I cant work up respect for men who go to strip clubs, really (no offence guys, I just dont "feel" it). Never gone to one myself.

Chai wrote:

I'm sure most men who go there are just once in a while, or even once in a life time thing. Why care or get to know this woman you probably won't ever see again? [..] So....if you are the type to think about these things...and don't like the idea of doing someone wrong....you enhance what she is doing to some kind of an art form. She's now a "dancer" [..]

Now, someone like Slappy (I'm sure he won't mind me saying) would be the type to have a really great time, and not give a fat rats ass about who the woman is. Nimh more likely would perhaps feel he would like the appreciate the woman in total, and wonder what she is like...just a guess, so no jumping on me. [..]

when this thread first started I could see that before you knew it would be the contingent that would be saying strippers are intelligent, creative

You're being a little circumspect, perhaps because I jumped on your sweeping statements before, but if I understand you correctly, you're saying that you knew there'd be a "contingent" coming in to defend strippers against the kind of stuff Slappy and Bea were saying - because there's always going to be these guys you describe. The ones who've gone to stripclubs but feel guilty about it so need to make it into something more artful. People like me, was your guess, I think.

Did I get that roughly right?

Major flaw in that argument, when it comes to "the contingent" whose opinion you have been countering in this thread: a bunch of em are not strip-club goers. They didnt get to know the girl/s in a strip club.

I mean, its a nice bit of psychologizing, and yeah, it might even be true for a certain subset of stripclub visitors who feel guilty about going there. Seems like a reasonable enough assumption.

But the folks who've here been arguing with Slappy's, Bella's and your characterisations of strippers simply do not fit the character sketch you make here. I mean, Noddy? I'm sure Wilso wasnt using the services of the sex worker he used to know either.

Me, I already wrote that I never saw my friend perform. In fact, you dont know **** about how I got to know her, or how well I knew her. My acquaintance who worked as a prostitute, like I said, was the best friend of my best friend. So real-life people, known in real-life world.

Basically, your theory of a certain group of people reasoning in a certain way seems fair enough, but there is a disconnect with the "contingent" you've actually been arguing with. You say you knew they'd come in and say this stuff - but the people who came in and said that stuff do not fit your description. Doesnt that tell you you may have made a mistake in jumping to conclusions about where they came from?

We're back to what I was sighing about in response to Shewolf's post earlier - (yes, I know its a long post, but I dont think you've 'heard' this part):

nimh wrote:

We're now apparently at the point where anyone who stood up to counter Slappy's argument that strippers "dont have a f'n brain" or must be completely broken, sexually abused coke heads who were ignored by their fathers, is accused of

a) not really knowing the strippers they're talking about anyway
b) probably just being strip club regulars

.. Personally, respect to Shewolf for her experience, but I do find it insulting when you say that you KNOW, because you were roommates with one etc -- do you realise you have no idea at all about whom we have known, or how close we have been to them? You know, that one of us might have had one as a roommate or the like too, perhaps?

I mean, jeez.

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you just can't stop yourself, can you nimh?

you are actually making me feel crazy. I did not in all my writing of that post put half the ideas you seem to think I had together in my head.

I'm not relating my posts to slappy, bella, you, thomas or the man in the moon. I couldn't tell you what bella said, or shewolf.

I was expressing my own thoughts, and like I said, half of the one's you think I'm expressing aren't even there.

damn, do you really think I'm going back and reading what bella and she wolf have to say? Unless it's something really incredible, I never even go back and look at the page before, unless forced to.

wouldja stop thinking I'm putting some great freaking meaning in what I'm saying for god's sake? I'm just saying what's on my mind at that particular freakin' moment.

you are driving me nutz.

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Chai wrote:

oh, btw, what does "on the ball" "on the man" "jump ready" mean?

see, that's what I mean, you think I'm into all this lingo I have no idea where it's even coming from....or what it means.

Thats just non-native speaker stuff. "Playing on the ball, not on the man" is Dutch I guess.. Its football lingo.

Chai wrote:

Now, as much as i have tried and tried to get you off of this stupid segway....it's obviously not working...you'd rather go on about whatever it is, and not talk about the subject.

Apart from when I got annoyed by your style, I've talked about the subject throughout. At much too great a length, even. You just disagree with what I said, I suppose <shrugs>

Chai wrote:

I don't mind you nimh, I'm not out to get you. I don't know where you picked up that idea

I havent. I dont think you're out to get me.. I think you get like this to everyone. I just got annoyed about it <shrugs>. (OK, outright exasperated.)

Chai wrote:

I'm goin' to bed. enjoy your angst. Unless you want to comment on what I did say in my last post....which would be a most refreshing change of pace from this crap.

No angst here.. annoyance, yes, plenty. Angst, no. Response to your last post is above.

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Chai wrote:

you are driving me nutz.

Oh fer chrissakes Chai!

Look - you wrote that you knew, when this thread first started, that before you knew it, there'd be this contingent saying strippers are intelligent, creative, etc. Right?

And you wrote that you knew they'd be showing up, because there's this type that goes to stripclubs, feels bad about it, and needs to think better of these girls to assuage their guilt. Did I get that right?

All I'm pointing out is that the people who DID actually come into this thread and argued about how there's enough strippers that are intelligent, not addicted, whatever - that "contingent" you referred to - do not fit your idea.

So what then? Different theory?

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nimh - you need to stop thinking so much. now I am frazzled.
and definitly gone for the night.
there's no just talking to you...it's always got to be something, and I just can't be that deep.

like I said, you read way too much into it.

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Yeah you'd better get some sleep. Take care.

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does anyone else here consider this horse beaten to death beside me?

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Ragman wrote:

does anyone else here consider this horse beaten to death beside me?

theres probably plenty, but they didnt bother to post into a thread they're not interested in to say they're not interested.

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Well, I posted, and I watch this stuff, bemused. Not that I'm ms. erudite, but it gets annoying.

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I'm outta here for a while in any case, nothing to do with this bit.

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Wilso wrote:

I used to know a sex worker who is a registered nurse. She'd spend two days a week doing volunteer work with autistic children.

Maybe that's how Slappy got to know her.

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She changed them from autistic children into "cool dudes".

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Chai wrote:

Primary, the majority of the time, most men visiting a strip club really don't care anything about the woman as a person....(don't go there nimh, I'm talking)

In other words, they are doing something they know is "wrong" but they don't want to invest the time and effort to get to know or care for this stranger, they just want her to arouse him.

I see the cashier at the supermarket about twice a week. I also don't want to know anything about her as a person. I feel the same way about the security personnel at my office building, the letter carrier who delivers my mail, and the dozens of other persons whom I encounter in commercial situations in the course of a week. I'm sure it would be nice if we could, following Kant's dictum, treat all people as ends rather than means, but frankly it's just too exhausting. Unless for some inexplicable reason I've expressed an interest, I don't want to hear anyone's life story or get to know them as persons. Just give me my groceries and let me get on with my own life.

It seems to me that the only reason we treat the interaction between stripper and customer differently from the interaction between supermarket cashier and customer is that one of those interactions involves sexual arousal (I'll let you guess which one). That strikes me as a bit too Cotton Matherish for my tastes. And I imagine there's a few "broken" cashiers out there too.

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cjhsa wrote:

Another one I didn't really know worked out at my gym. She was a tiny, oh so hot blonde with an a-- tighter than a cheap jew.

Surely you didn't need to add "cheap," did you? I mean, if you're going to indulge in offensive ethnic stereotypes, you shouldn't go half way.

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joefromchicago wrote:

I see the cashier at the supermarket about twice a week. I also don't want to know anything about her as a person. I feel the same way about the security personnel at my office building, the letter carrier who delivers my mail, and the dozens of other persons whom I encounter in commercial situations in the course of a week. I'm sure it would be nice if we could, following Kant's dictum, treat all people as ends rather than means, but frankly it's just too exhausting. Unless for some inexplicable reason I've expressed an interest, I don't want to hear anyone's life story or get to know them as persons. Just give me my groceries and let me get on with my own life.

Nice to see you here, Joe!

I would add that not only do I not care about the cashier, the cashier also doesn't care about me. I found that out the hard way when I was 15, travelling to America for the first time since my childhood. On my first day, my host family and I went to a grocery storetogether. When we checked out at the cash register, the cashier asked me what sounded like a very personal question to me: "Hi, how are you doing?"

Surprised and impressed that she took such personal interest to me, I told the cashier exactly how I was doing: that I was still a little jet-lagged, but happy to be in America and excited to travel the Midwest in the coming three weeks. I was just beginning to list the places in the Midwest that I was going to see when I noticed that she wasn't listening at all. She just stared at her cash-register, punching in her numbers. This cashier -- just like any other in the world -- didn't see me as a person, only as part of a group who paid her boss money.

And you know what? I survived without serious damage that she treated me as an object like that.

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Chai wrote:

Men are certainly not watching these women wondering if they like to canoe, or if they have traveled to other countries, or have studied the classics.

So what? As Joe points out, the same lack of interest characterizes the interaction between many professionals and their customers -- probably most.

Chai wrote:

In other words, they are doing something they know is "wrong"

You imply it's a fact that it's wrong to dance at a strip club -- or to visit one. Maybe the fact you say they don't know is just not a fact.

Chai wrote:

This made me think about the 7 Deadly Sins...obviously Lust in this case. No one wants to commit a deadly sin, except Slappy.

No one? I'm an atheist. I don't care about the deadly sins, and like to practice most of them. Specifically, I'm pro-gluttony, pro-lust, pro-sloth, and pro-pride. Admittedly, I'm also anti-greed, anti-envy, and anti-wrath, but this isn't because some faith-head in a black robe declared it a deadly sin many hundred years ago. So when you say that nobody wants to commit a deadly sin, you are crassly overgeneralizing -- again -- from the non-random sample of the world that you happen to inhabit.

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I wasn't using Seven Deadly Sins from a religious standpoint, more as a general guidleline that serves people in describing usually unwanted behavior.

I meant no religious meaning, it was three words to describe what otherwise might have taken a hundred.

Yes, sadly joe, there are broken people in every profession.

However, I feel there's something much more damaging in objectifying a person, by staring and getting arousal from blatently staring at her genitals, then by politely passing the time of day with the bank teller, or cashier. We are not lusting after the cashier.

You mentioned prudishness before Thomas...what I am saying is more self respect.
There is a lot of ground between the 2.
It's difficult for, in this case, a woman to maintain healthy self respect for herself, when you receive the message for hours on end that all you are is a pair of breasts, or exposed genitals.

I heard/read of strippers saying they felt power over men because of what they have, i.e. their body, which was being lusted after. (btw, there's a difference between healthy desire and lust)
I've felt that power, but it isn't really a satisfying one in the long run. It's such an easy power to have, not challenging, and not one that produces healthy feelings.

Because that's the only power they have in the workplace (assuming they are not asked to engage in anything that show's their intelligence) it takes its toll.

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Chai wrote:

Because that's the only power they have in the workplace (assuming they are not asked to engage in anything that show's their intelligence) it takes its toll.

Cashiers, burger flippers, and toilet cleaners don't even have that power in their job. Yet I doubt that anybody on A2K would seriously post a thread titled "cashier as wife", and there wouldn't be a controversial discussion about it. Chances are that everybody would accept -- reasonably in my opinion -- that some cashiers are desirable as wives while others aren't. They would accept that not all cashiers are the same, and that generalizations about them are probably wrong.

Why should it be any different with strippers?

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joefromchicago wrote:

Wilso wrote:
I used to know a sex worker who is a registered nurse. She'd spend two days a week doing volunteer work with autistic children.

Maybe that's how Slappy got to know her.

That was a good one.

Speaking of, this thread is retarded. Let's all pretend to agree strippers are actually just a normal sample of society, and as a whole are not coke headed whores who didn't receive enough hugs from daddy.

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Stripper as a wife.

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