Stripper as a wife.

Which, then again, is not something ANYONE here has been saying.

Could you please, please, please stop with the straw men? It's really, really annoying when you put words in our mouths that none of us have remotely been saying.

You do this time and time again, in general I mean. Why? And you talk of Thomas "pushing buttons"?

Believe it or not, I did read "below" -- and responded to it -- the first time Slappy posted it. Slappy was citing an anti-porn advocacy cite, run by a Religious-Right organization called "Morality in Media", which in turn cited no independent research to bolster their point at all.

Your own point, "in general, overall, it is not a profession conducing to good mental health", has the same weakness. It's a fairly confident statement, yet you neither say who said it, nor describe the evidence by which your source reached its conclusions.

I'm sorry..

does anyone know anymore what point nimh and thomas are trying to make?

now that the thread is so freaking tangled up with quotes within quotes within quotes, and people going back 10 pages to point out where a comma was placed instead of a semicolon, I've lost all interest.

BTW I...so....much....HATE....that word "strawman"

Not only do I not really know what means, but whenever someone cries out that word, I know a thread has gone to the dogs.

In truth, I have never, ever heard a person use that word in conversation unless they're talking about the Wizard of Oz.



Yes, yes....strippers and hookers are just a bunch of lovely intelligent young ladies that mostly graduated from bryn mawr.


Happy?

Can we all move on now?

I disagree.



Never.



Most definitely not.

"Strawman bashing" is when people make up arguments, pretend they are coming from their opponents, and attack them instead of the arguments their opponents are actually making. See here for example:


This quote is a strawman, because nobody in this thread except OGIONIK was arguing this. Certainly not nimh, or Miller, or I.

oh...I get it now, you actually think I'm addressing my comments to specific people.

well, I'm not.....unless I specifically say so....




is there anything new to be said here on this topic?

Probably not, but you are in no position to dictate when a debate is over. If this thread bores you, simply leave it alone.

I don't see them cashing in on their looks much different than an athlete cashing in on their talents.

Lust would exist with or without strippers. Sure, they choose (and maybe sometimes not) to be objects to be lusted after but they themselves aren't responsible for lust.

I'm sure somewhere there is some guy mastrabating over a pair of shoes but we don't condemn all the shoe makes as immoral.

That's a good comparison!

Let me help you - I summarised it in just six lines RIGHT in the very post you're referring to - the "straw man" one.

"Lets get this clear, allright. None of us is saying that strippers are typically or generally "multi-lingual ambassadors of goodwill, with degrees in philosophy and political science". (I mean, WTF? Where do you pull this **** out of always?) All that us people were saying is that they are NOT, as Slappy, Bella c.s. were saying, all, or 99% of em, stupid, sad, bad, broken or addicted, without a "f'n brain" or with "little knowledge of the world outside of being a sex object and even less self respect.'"

Let me help you - I summarised it in one sentence, right at the top of this page:

"Could you please, please, please stop with the straw men? It's really, really annoying when you put words in our mouths that none of us have remotely been saying."

Well then fer Chrissakes take the split-minute to look it up already! Cause whether you know what it means or not, it's something you're doing all the effin time. And it's rude, it's not honest, and it pushes a lot of buttons.

Or you can just not give a F, keep pissing people off all the time by pretending they said random stuff they never remotely did, and then praise yourself for being a "straight-talking" type who just "says things upfront" when they get angry.

nimh - drop it.

true boom....it would take a very strong person not to let it get to them though.

He's right. Why should he drop it?

I have no idea what percentage of strippers choose their work role in an ironic way of making money fast, or a plain old ordinary way of making money fast, or what percentage were used in their youth in various ways so that they are hard hearted or desparate hannahs, whatever. I do know that broken-ness and non-brokenness, so-called, have nothing to do with native intelligence. I'm thinking we're dealing with red herrings here.





I've only known one stripper, a gay guy, yes, you betcha, very intelligent.

because.....and I'm going to say this in the nicest way I can....

I normally wouldn't, but since nimh has pointed out faults of mine, or at least what he preceives as faults...I don't recall ever saying something akin to "telling it like it is", or feeling that way, he won't mind if I return the favor. The street does go both ways.

Nimh...you're a very nice fellow, but sometimes you beat some point not just into the ground, but all the way to China. Me, in real life I'm very methodical...here, I'm fly by the seat of my pants....I'm not into disecting every little thing and taking one sentence out of someone else posts and dragging it up over and over....when I see that happening, honestly, I just start skimming what the person wrote, which is a shame, since I miss stuff in the middle.

Apparantly you are very sensitive. I'm not so much so about most things. I'm pragmatic....which is better? What? Do you think we should talk that into the ground also? I don't.

Thomas...when I said "drop it" to Nimh...first off, I do believe I was talking to him, not you...2nd, saying "drop it" at least where I live, isn't an invitation to start telling the person who said it what their right are and what they are not....Drop it means, let it go...let it go...it means nothing in the great cosmic wheel of life....wear life like a loose garment, letting it touch you in few places....let....it....go.....

Now, I'm going to post this. Then I'm going to come back in a new post to talk about some stuff on this subject I was thinking about while exercising and making dinner and taking a shower.

And I'm not going to ruin this entire thread by getting involved in any more he said/she said....

Let It Go.

OK, I was thinking about what I said here, and came back to refresh my memory on what exactly I said.

First off, as said...I said the above on this specific subject from the viewpoint of a woman. From the viewpoint of feeling either forced, or maybe only worth of, being treated as an object. For having all other aspects of their being rendered unimportant. That's an awful thing. I think anyone would acknowledge that.

Primary, the majority of the time, most men visiting a strip club really don't care anything about the woman as a person....(don't go there nimh, I'm talking)

In other words, they are doing something they know is "wrong" but they don't want to invest the time and effort to get to know or care for this stranger, they just want her to arouse him. I'm not talking about the few that frequent strip clubs all the time, on a regular basis....I'm sure most men who go there are just once in a while, or even once in a life time thing. Why care or get to know this woman you probably won't ever see again? You just want to look at her. So....if you are the type to think about these things...and don't like the idea of doing someone wrong....you enhance what she is doing to some kind of an art form. She's now a "dancer"

Now, someone like Slappy (I'm sure he won't mind me saying) would be the type to have a really great time, and not give a fat rats ass about who the woman is. Nimh more likely would perhaps feel he would like the appreciate the woman in total, and wonder what she is like...just a guess, so no jumping on me.

This made me think about the 7 Deadly Sins...obviously Lust in this case. No one wants to commit a deadly sin, except Slappy. Look at Gluttoney, no one wants to be a glutton for let's say food, but some will overindulge under the guise of being a gourmet. Wrath? Who wants to be that angry? Well, it's ok if it's over the right type of thing, child abuse, having a loved one murdered. Sloth...No one wants to be a lazy bastid, but the world today tell's us "you deserve it" Ha, there's this headache commercial that tell us.."You deserve pain relief" I do? Wow. Sloth and Greed are both these entitlement things....so instead of being a lazy greedy bastid....we "entitled".

So, to finish...when this thread first started I could see that before you knew it would be the contingent that would be saying strippers are intelligent, creative....all that....in part because thinking differently would be "wrong".

And that's all I have to say about that.

I guess I've had fun in strip clubs, the most fun was when I convinced a couple cocktail waitresses I was a stripper and actually was escorted into a private room to dance for a group of strippers who were off the clock. It was also at the only strip club I don't mind going to, because it seems more like a regular bar...it's casual and you can hang back in the corner drinking and you don't get bothered too much.

Other than that, strip clubs bore the hell out of me. This weekend I'm going on a bachelor party and I hope we don't go to any. I have a girlfriend, but when I was single I would have much rather go to a bar and try to talk to/pick up regular girls than go to a strip club and waste my time & money. There's no thrill of the chase with strippers, unless you really want to try picking one up. I've see the "regulars" at strip clubs sitting by themselves up front of the stage telling the dancers they're beautiful, and I want to throw up in my mouth. Don't have much respect for either party.

She seemed pretty nice for a naked chick in a cage.

Thomas is very welcome. This "I wasnt talking to you" **** doesnt fly on a forum, I never understand when people try to pull it. If you'd wanted to address me personally without others chiming in, you'd have had to send a PM. <shrugs>

I am always grateful if Thomas chimes in, regardless of whether he agrees with me (like here) or not (you seen my thread about Lafontaine yet, Thomas? <grins>). He is not just methodical, but consistently honest, and eschews all rhetorical tricks.

He doesnt make random sweeping claims, doesnt put words into other peoples' mouths, never bullies or bitches, doesnt make assumptions about other posters on things he knows nothing about, doesnt pretend people are just whining if he is caught out in something, isnt jump-ready to judge even newbies at a start, and always plays "on the ball" rather than "on the man".

When it comes to politics, he's dead wrong at least half the time; but he's definitely a better man than I am.

Chai, feel free to point out my flaws.. its not like I pretend I dont have em. Though what the heck thats supposed to have to do with what was pointed out to you here, God knows. I guess its as close to "Yeah I know I was being stupid but you can be stupid too" as we're going to get... <shrugs>

nimh...I think you give me way more credit for my motives than they deserve...truth is I have no motives...you think too much.

Now could we PLEASE get back to the subject.

and btw, not addressed to you specifically. jesus christ, I'll go out of my way not to ever address anything specifically to you.....I don't enjoy when people in real life jump in and try to speak for someone else. I don't enjoy it here, fine if you like it...I don't.

Now, as much as i have tried and tried to get you off of this stupid segway....it's obviously not working...you'd rather go on about whatever it is, and not talk about the subject. I don't even know what you're trying to get at anymore, and I don't think you do either. So, I'm gone.

I'm not going to PM you nimh, I wouldn't have any idea of what to say to you.....Thomas did that once, I have no idea why, and pretty much had nothing to say to him, and told him so.. Have no idea to this day what I would have wanted to say....Have no idea what I'd want to say to you in a PM.

I don't mind you nimh, I'm not out to get you. I don't know where you picked up that idea, I'm a pretty much non-cunning person, and basically a bear of very little brain. Yeah, you definitly give me too much credit. I must be one of those people that are so dense, you think they must be hiding something.

I don't know, here I am repeating myself over and over to you, about not wanting to repeat myself over and over to you.

I'm goin' to bed. enjoy your angst. Unless you want to comment on what I did say in my last post....which would be a most refreshing change of pace from this crap.

g'night. sweet dreams