Stripper as a wife.

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

What's the point of arguing the majority of strippers are head cases?"

I don't know, which may be part of the reason I wasn't arguing this.

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Oh ok...because pointing out to everyone they don't know enough strippers to "generalize" they're f**ked in the head and really aren't very intelligent women isn't arguing that. The whole time you were agreeing with me, however wanted to point out who's opinions shouldn't count.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

After spending a whopping 10 seconds looking for something on the web, I found this

... "this" being an advocacy website that cites no peer reviewed research on the matter.

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I mean come on, this is getting ridiculous.

We're now apparently at the point where anyone who stood up to counter Slappy's argument that strippers "dont have a f'n brain" or must be completely broken, sexually abused coke heads who were ignored by their fathers, is accused of

a) not really knowing the strippers they're talking about anyway
b) probably just being strip club regulars

Is it really that unbelievable that other people may have known some intelligent strippers? And do you really have to automatically assume that if they dont share your belief that all or most all of 'em are sad, bad and/or stupid, they must just not know what theyre talking about - or you know, must just be strip club regulars conned by the girls?

I mean, does anyone see the irony here, of Chai saying: well, those people that say they knew some strippers, they probably didnt really know 'em, so that doesnt say much ... meanwhile, I've come across some strippers that I didnt really know myself, so lemme tell you what I do know about what they're like..

From where this automatic sureness that what you got from them was the real ****, when you're so quick to assume that when the others say they've known some, they must just be talking out of their as$?

I mean, come on. Some introspection maybe?

Lets do a recap, 'k?

When it came to the stereotype of strippers as bad, sad and/or stupid, this is what some people said in response:

Noddy24 wrote:

Stripping isn't a career that I'd choose, but I've known several part-time strippers and I consider them respectable women.

nimh wrote:

I have ["met a stripper that had a f'n brain"]. Very intelligent, imaginative, kind, and smart. Stuck in hard times, for sure. But no, not an addict. (And no, I didnt see her perform.)

In the different category, I knew a girl who worked as an escort too, she was the best friend of my best friend. Intelligent enough (they met when studying at university), and quite happy with where her life was.

Miller wrote:

I've known one very popular Boston stripper [..]. This stripper also put herself through Emerson college to get a BA degree and then she went on to graduate school for a graduate degree.

She was smart as hell and certainly knew men.

NickFun wrote:

I've known at least two that were very intelligent and were college students. I met one recently that spoke 5 languages.

Wilso wrote:

I used to know a sex worker who is a registered nurse. She'd spend two days a week doing volunteer work with autistic children.

Awright. So what's the response to this?

They must just all have met that figurative 1% minority of 'em.
Someone who talks about "highly intelligent" strippers probably just never spent more than 5 minutes talking to one, and is most likely talking out his a$$. (Never mind that the guy specified that the stripper in question went to graduate school.)
Yeah, they say they know some, but it's easy to say you know someone.. they probably were only just aquaintences, so that doesnt say much. (Meanwhile, I had some contact with four that werent ever really friends of mine, so let me tell you how it really is.)
Well, you know, people who think highly of strippers in general are mostly just people who regularly go to stripclubs .. you know, the kind who think they have a 'special' stripper, that they buy gifts for... (Never mind that Noddy's unlikely to be a regular goer, and that I already specified that I never saw my friend perform.)

Anyone see anything odd in here? Whats this weird instinct to immediately jump to the assumption that the others must just have never known / be talking out of their a$s / etc?

Personally, respect to Shewolf for her experience, but I do find it insulting when you say that you KNOW, because you were roommates with one etc -- do you realise you have no idea at all about whom we have known, or how close we have been to them? You know, that one of us might have had one as a roommate or the like too, perhaps?

I mean, jeez.

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I had a stripper friend who taught aerobics during the day, with one client being my former employer. The fact that I knew her made me a popular guy in our pickup basketball league.

My kids played with hers, and never knew all those "ornaments" they were gluing sequins on were her pasties.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Oh ok...because pointing out to everyone they don't know enough strippers to "generalize" they're f**ked in the head and really aren't very intelligent women isn't arguing that. The whole time you were agreeing with me, however wanted to point out who's opinions shouldn't count.

You're not getting it. If you say: "All sheep are white", based on one sheep you've seen, and five sheep observed by someone whom someone you knew once met, I am not taking a position on sheep color by responding that you are in no position to reach your judgment.

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Thanks, nimh.

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Another one I didn't really know worked out at my gym. She was a tiny, oh so hot blonde with an a-- tighter than a cheap jew. One day, I stopped at this store to buy some beer, and she was in there, alone, apparently buying a ice cream. I'm up there paying the guy for my beer, and she's bent over the freezer - all you can see are spread tan legs and tight a--, giving us a free show. It was all I could do to not give her my super bomb pop and a few pushups. Wink

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shewolfnm wrote:

Nimh,

I said mostly.

not everyone. Not all.

mostly

Umm yeah, and you said that in response to a thread where six specific people had countered Slappy's kind of opinion about what strippers are like.

Let me see - six. One of which was Noddy. One of which was me, and I already mentioned I never saw a show. Miller mentioned that the woman he/she was talking about did her BA and then went on to graduate school - so his/her assertion wasnt just (or only) based on being conned by "special girls" in some club either. Leaves NickFun, Ogyothingie and Wilso (on the semi-related subject of prostitutes).

So you have this range of specific posts here, and you replied that well, most people who say things like that are just regular strip club goers who got bedazzled by the "special girl" they believe to have etc. You dont think thats a tad ... off?

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nimh wrote:

Someone who talks about "highly intelligent" strippers probably just never spent more than 5 minutes talking to one, and is most likely talking out his a$$. (Never mind that the guy specified that the stripper in question went to graduate school.)

When I wrote this, I thought Chai had been responding to Miller, specifically - in the meantime she's explained it was Ogyonik - hence any confusion.. Sorry bout that bit.

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boomerang wrote:

I've known some skanky, drug addled strippers.

I've known some skanky, drug addled secretaries too.

Would the strippers be less skanky and drug addled if they worked in an office?

Okay, okay -- maybe they didn't make the best career choice but so frikken what?

That's like what I said before about finding ninny's jaded people and tired mothers working in any job..

For me, the "so what" is what's going one inside the stripper. I haven't googled any information myself yet (will tonight, this is interesting), but slappy last post says something important. There is a lot of misery in this world, and someone who choices to be a stripper OVERALL can lay claim to a lot more of it than the average person.

OVERALL, think of what this woman must do every day, and how you would react to it.

What if every time you went to work you knew that you could spend you entire shift never saying a word, never expressing a thought, having no say so as to who was looking at you, standing in uncomfortable shoes with glaring lights on you and just being a pure object for any number of other human beings. You, in effect, have ceased to be a human, and are a composit of breasts, legs, butt and genitals.

How long can a person reasonable be expected to live knowing that their living comes from being stared at, and stared at, and stared at? Not so much because you have beauty, not at all for your personality and intelligence, but because you are willing to expose your flesh to someone for some dirty dollars, while they fantasize about not you, but your parts. You're not even an entire person.

On a daily basis, we have people interacting with on on multiple levels, mother, lover, cook, whatever....to be solely the object to enduce an erect penis, is well, very sad.

The women on those stages turn themselves off after a while, mainly because what they are doing must be so incredibly boring after a while, but also as some kind of safety valve for their sanity.

Honestly, and saying this from the viewpoint of a woman, I think men in particular have this notion of strippers being some witty, charming intelligent being, because it assuages the guilt of knowing that they really don't care about that person at all. They just want sexual arousal.

Men are certainly not watching these women wondering if they like to canoe, or if they have traveled to other countries, or have studied the classics.

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Finally, and then I'm gonna shut up:

Chai wrote:

but implying that I happened to meet the 4 stripper out of a million that weren't multi-lingual ambassadors of goodwill, with degrees in philosophy and political science is pure hogwash.

This is a MAJOR straw man.

Lets get this clear, allright. None of us is saying that strippers are typically or generally "multi-lingual ambassadors of goodwill, with degrees in philosophy and political science". (I mean, WTF? Where do you pull this **** out of always?)

All that us people were saying is that they are NOT, as Slappy, Bella c.s. were saying, all, or 99% of em, stupid, sad, bad, broken or addicted, without a "f'n brain" or with "little knowledge of the world outside of being a sex object and even less self respect."

OK? Thanks.

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nimh wrote:

Let me see - six. One of which was Noddy. One of which was me, and I already mentioned I never saw a show. Miller mentioned that the woman he/she was talking about did her BA and then went on to graduate school - so his/her assertion wasn't just (or only) based on being conned by "special girls" in some club either. Leaves NickFun, Ogyothingie and Wilso (on the semi-related subject of prostitutes).

I would add a seventh: Slappy -- although his support of your point was rather involuntary. Remember what he said? He said:

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

There were a couple strippers that I went to college with. I still converse with one over email here and there. This one's definitely not intelligent, even though she has a degree.

I don't know about you, but I find this is a close call. On the one hand you have a college that found her intelligent enough to give her a degree. On the other hand you have the misogynist comedian of the A2K community who says that in spite of this, she was "definitely not intelligent". Hmmmm ... whom to believe ... so hard to decide .... NOT!

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I was saying that to Thomas Nimh, as he was the person who seemed to think that because I knew 4 of one type, I was assuming all were.

In general, overall, it is not a profession conducing to good mental health. You will find more troubled souls doing this for a living than people who have a high, healthy regard for themselves.

as I said more than once now nimh...I have made every effort to use the words "generally" "overall" etc, and in your quote of mine I was yet again addressing the fact that is is NOT all or nothing. However, I can't pretend that because some have stated that they have known strippers who are AOK, that means everythings rosy.

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Chai wrote:

In general, overall, it is not a profession conducing to good mental health.

Says who?

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Chai wrote:

[
What if every time you went to work you knew that you could spend you entire shift never saying a word, never expressing a thought, having no say so as to who was looking at you, standing in uncomfortable shoes with glaring lights on you and just being a pure object for any number of other human beings. You, in effect, have ceased to be a human, and are a composit of breasts, legs, butt and genitals..

Or if you work at the right place, you allow guys to grope you during private dances(Providence/Montreal), or if you're really lucky, you blow or f**k guys for drugs(western MA/Montreal).

Thomas, it was a state-funded University. Believe me, getting a Sociology degree there was not a chore. She's dumb as rocks...I've spoken to her many, many times.

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Thomas wrote:

I don't know about you, but I find this is a close call. On the one hand you have a college that found her intelligent enough to give her a degree. On the other hand you have the misogynist comedian of the A2K community who says that in spite of this, she was "definitely not intelligent". Hmmmm ... whom to believe ... so hard to decide .... NOT!

Since when is "having a degree" a guarantee of intelligence? It could be a degree in homeopathic baloney for all you know, from the internet college of Swaziland.

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Coolwhip wrote:

Since when is "having a degree" a guarantee of intelligence? It could be a degree in homeopathic baloney for all you know, from the internet college of Swaziland.

It's not a degree of intelligence, it's an indicator of intelligence -- a more trustworthy indicator, to me at least, than Slappy's testimony to the opposite. I'm not saying I'm being fair here, but that's how I see it.

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Thomas....please read below.

You're just trying to push buttons now. I'll come back later this evening when others have move the thread out of this rut.

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
My point is, strippers will tell their customers absolutely anything to get a dollar out of them. And a lot of guys fall for their crap, so they'll keep going back feeding them $$.

1. So?
2. I'm not convinced you personally know enough strippers to make sweeping generalizations about their profession.

I don't have to know a ton, and it's not a sweeping generalization. I've heard it many times from other sources, including Dr. Drew, who hosted a sex-topic show.

After spending a whopping 10 seconds looking for something on the web, I found this website(http://www.obscenitycrimes.org/laydenhealthy.cfm), which says:

"Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder, 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder, and 60% had Major Depressive Episodes, These are severe psychiatric problems and many of them are connected to childhood sexual abuse. These are women who when they were little girls would get into their beds each night and roll themselves into a fetal position and every night he would come in and peel her open. The physical and visual invasion of little girl's bodies damages them psychologically and gives them a psychologically unhealthy view of sexuality. Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as strippers, Playboy models, and prostitutes. The men who, now as customers, physically and visually invade the adult women's bodies, reenact the role of the perpetrator. These women work in the sex industry because it feels like home."

Dude, you don't have to f'n justify the reasons to yourself you like strip clubs. What's the point of arguing the majority of strippers are head cases? It's pretty well known, unless of course you fall for their game. Like Chai said, it's stupid going back and forth with "I knew this one girl who was smart."

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Chai wrote:

I think men in particular have this notion of strippers being some witty, charming intelligent being, because it assuages the guilt of knowing that they really don't care about that person at all. They just want sexual arousal.

Men are certainly not watching these women wondering if they like to canoe, or if they have traveled to other countries, or have studied the classics.

And how does this address the glaring fact that a bunch of us who spoke up as having known a charming or intelligent or whatnot stripper or prostitute did NOT meet or see them in their club?

Chai wrote:

On a daily basis, we have people interacting with on on multiple levels, mother, lover, cook, whatever....to be solely the object to enduce an erect penis, is well, very sad.

Who says that these girls dont interact with people as mother, lover, cook or whatever? Its their job - they go home afterwards.

When you go to work (not you you, but the generic you), you might only ever be seen as a secretary, or the annoying person trying to sell phones, or the guy who's got to fix their computer.

I'm NOT arguing with your point that a stripper's job is way different from any of those. It is not your average job - its more dangerous, more tedious, etc - no argument with that.

Just pointing out that here, you're making a false comparison: we get to be mother, lover, cook in our lives - they only get to be lust object in their job. You see where that's a dishonest comparison?

Whatever our job, whether you're a stripper or a salesman or an IT person, being interacted with on just one level of who we are at our work is something most of us endure. For all the other roles, we have our time at home, outside, with friends, etc - same for us as for them.

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Stripper as a wife.

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