The problem with that is you seem to think they make this choice much the same way someone decides to become a welder or a burger flipper.
Very often, women who become strippers or porn workers are runaways, abused kids, or abandoned, and some scumbag who knows he can exploit that takes them and gives them this wonderful new "choice." And the rest of them are probably the ones who are just plain stupid, or in some other way f*cked up.
How many girls in good high schools do you think want to be strippers when they get out of school? If you are being honest, I submit that the answer can only be "very few, if any at all." Why do you think that is?
For most strippers, it isn't really much of a choice at all.
In the same way a member of a ethnic group/ race represents all of them...a woman represents her gender.
I've felt moved by stories I heard from others, or read, when someone tells a member of whatever group of people we're talking about, in so many words...."remember, when you're going out there, you represent all of us."
It's a sisterhood.
When a woman stands up and shows excellance in a way the furthers the quest for equality amongst other women...no one says "Tough" When a woman raises a productive member of society...she makes society better as a whole, for both men and women. When a woman causes another to feel pride, she's contributing to society as a whole.
When a woman chooses allow herself to be objectified, she brings others down with her.
Maybe not felt by everyone that is a female, but overall, women tend to, especially as they become emotionally mature, feel a bond.
I'm an individual, but I act as a member of my society.
No person is an island.
kickycan wrote:How many girls in good high schools do you think want to be strippers when they get out of school?
I don't know. And given the hostility towards sex workers in America's public opinion, I'm unlikely to find out.
kickycan wrote: If you are being honest, I submit that the answer can only be "very few, if any at all." Why do you think that is?
My answer is "I don't know", not "very few", which means two things. (1) the answer to your question is "not applicable"; (2)I'm not honest by your definition, so you wouldn't be interested in my answer anyway.
Chai wrote:In the same way a member of a ethnic group/ race represents all of them...a woman represents her gender.
Let me assure you that I in no way represent Germany. Walter would faint from frustration if I did.
joefromchicago wrote:Stray Cat wrote:Well, I'll concede this: It's possible that visiting a strip club is the closest thing to being intimate with a woman that some men have. For whatever reasons -- it's all they've got.
I can also understand that it would be difficult to own up to that.
And it's possible that some women object to stripping because, deep down, they envy the physical attributes of strippers and the attention paid to them by their customers, and fear that their own rapidly fading looks are not enough to maintain the interest of their men.
I can also understand that it would be difficult to own up to that.
Ha! Have you seen some of the "beautiful" strippers out there?
Oh god, don't make me laugh.
Thomas wrote:Bella Dea wrote:I don't go to McDonalds to look at the workers. I hardly even look at the workers. I surely don't pay to look at them.
How about actors then? You certainly go to the theater and the movies to look at the actors. Do they degrade themselves, too?
Uh no, I go for the story.
And yes, some of them do, IMO.
Thomas wrote:
Well, that's just tough. If a woman belongs to herself, she belongs to herself and not to "the rest of us". "The rest of us", then, has no standing to complain about the choices she makes about her very own property.
No one is complaining.
I've plainly said I couldn't care less if a woman wants to strip but that I still feel it's degrading.
Being
able to strip is wonderful....a woman's ability now days to choose her profession is a wonderful thing. But regardless, I still think that choosing that profession says something about your view of yourself.
Chai wrote:It's a sisterhood.
When a woman stands up and shows excellance in a way the furthers the quest for equality amongst other women...no one says "Tough" When a woman raises a productive member of society...she makes society better as a whole, for both men and women. When a woman causes another to feel pride, she's contributing to society as a whole.
When a woman chooses allow herself to be objectified, she brings others down with her.
I can understand that you feel this way. I just don't think you have standing to complain about it to her. I would say the same thing if, say, Snood was complaining about Blacks who chose to be "Uncle Tom"s. If Women's Lib was about freedom, it was about the freedom of each woman to make the choices she wants to make, and not the choices Women's Lib wants her to make.
Bella Dea wrote:No one is complaining.
Do you disagree that Chai's "it's like a step back for the rest of us" is a complaint?
Bella Dea wrote:Being able to strip is wonderful....a woman's ability now days to choose her profession is a wonderful thing. But regardless, I still think that choosing that profession says something about your view of yourself.
I agree, but to repeat Joe's point, the same is true of a lot of professions. It says something about Joe's view of himself that he chose to be a lawyer, and about my view of myself that I chose to be a physicist, and ....
Thomas wrote:
Do you disagree that Chai's "it's like a step back for the rest of us" is a complaint?
If she feels it's a step back, then she feels it's a step back.
What does it matter if I agree or not?
Let me rephrase so you can rest easy....
I am not complaining.
Thomas wrote:
I agree, but to repeat Joe's point, the same is true of a lot of professions. It says something about Joe's view of himself that he chose to be a lawyer, and about my view of myself that I chose to be a physicist, and ....
Sure does....and your point is......
We're not talking about being a lawyer or a physicist are we?
Thomas wrote:kickycan wrote:How many girls in good high schools do you think want to be strippers when they get out of school?
I don't know. And given the hostility towards sex workers in America's public opinion, I'm unlikely to find out.
kickycan wrote: If you are being honest, I submit that the answer can only be "very few, if any at all." Why do you think that is?
My answer is "I don't know", not "very few", which means two things. (1) the answer to your question is "not applicable"; (2)I'm not honest by your definition, so you wouldn't be interested in my answer anyway.
You are right. I shouldn't have put it that way. Sorry about that.
Bella Dea wrote:Let me rephrase so you can rest easy....I am not complaining.
Thanks. Sorry for being pedantic about these things. But without the visual clues I would normally get in a face-to-face conversation, I find it difficult to see that a sentence like "
noone is complaining" is not a statement about other people.
kickycan wrote:You are right. I shouldn't have put it that way. Sorry about that.
No problem. I've been known to overreach myself every now and then.
No, it's not a complaint....it is what it is...
when one muslim bombs a building, doesn't do much for all the good people of that faith. If one person ends up hating all Muslims because of what some did...it hurts the entire group.
when one women allows herself to be objectified, it doesn't make life any better for those who won't allow that for themselves.
again, not a complaint, an observation of life.
ragman...thanks a lot for your post. I don't feel so doubting now.
I better go with my gut. and my gut says thomas shoes are covered with dog ****.
good bye for now.
But I still think the fact that nobody really chooses to become a stripper is applicable and relevant here.
Wasn't it Joe's contention that the choice to become a stripper is the same as the choice to become a lawyer or a burger flipper?
Bella Dea wrote:Sure does....and your point is......
We're not talking about being a lawyer or a physicist are we?
No we aren't. My point is that I don't see anything specific to stripping in the point you made: "I still think that choosing that profession says something about your view of yourself."
Quote:How many girls in good high schools do you think want to be strippers when they get out of school?
How many do you think would say insurance adjuster? an actuary? an office manager?
If you are being honest, I submit that the answer can only be "very few, if any at all." Why do you think that is?
boomerang wrote:Quote:How many girls in good high schools do you think want to be strippers when they get out of school?
How many do you think would say insurance adjuster? an actuary? an office manager?
If you are being honest, I submit that the answer can only be "very few, if any at all." Why do you think that is?
Because they are boring. Whereas, in the case of strippers, it's because most parents have taught their kids that it is a dead end life of degradation.
Who told you that !?!?!
