Stripper as a wife.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v392/Terrij/smileys/slap4.gif

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nimh wrote:

the Americans here seem to be pretty much divided in two equal halves on the subject.

Yeah, the ones who know what they're talking about (i.e. ME and whoever agrees with me), and the ones who couldn't find their own assh*le with a funnel (i.e. everyone else).

So...what the hell are we arguing about again?

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Bella Dea wrote:

One instance in particular, (a story from a reliable source) where two strippers engaged in sex with a double sided dildo.

Here's more instances, from my experiences. It's pretty common for a bachelor party, instead of going to a strip club, but to hire a pair of strippers to come over the house and put on a show. Double sided dildos, giving each other oral, putting a lolipop up themselves then giving it to the soon to be groom...and I've seen the strippers offer "private massages" in someone's bedroom.

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Oh, you mean like the Duke case....

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kickycan wrote:

Quote:

Coney Island is a pretty big hotspot for burlesque. In fact, I might be going to see one this saturday night after the Mermaid parade

Kicky, I'd like to think that one night, back in 1925, your great-grandfather went to a burlesque show. As he was sitting there, watching the strippers almost take it all off, he said to himself, "someday, I'll have a grandson who.......no, it probably won't be until my great-grandson's time.....he'll get to watch strippers who actually take it all off!!"

And you, Kicky, have fulfilled that dream -- the dream of generations. If only your great-grandad could somehow know.....<smooch>

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Chai wrote:

nimh....would you get off this 99% thing?

that was settled long ago.

Where? And what was the outcome of the settlement?

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Y'know, folks, you have the greatest research tool in the history of humankind at your disposal, yet no one can spend 10 minutes on Google?

Here, I've done it for you.

http://www.soa.ilstu.edu/anthropology/theses/jmgantt/newthesis6.htm [b]Check the section on "Counterfeit intimacy".[/b] http://transactionpub.metapress.com/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,2,8;journal,12,22;linkingpublicationresults,1:108474,1 http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=PF76WRVF1MJ39MJ7TF3TG5CK4MCT2S03&ID=56367 http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-5738869_ITM http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713845833~db=all http://vaw.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/10/1182 http://www.albany.edu/scj/jcjpc/vol10is1/bernard.pdf http://fcx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/refs/1/4/303 http://iambecauseweare.wordpress.com/2007/03/17/some-statistics-on-sex-work-and-sexual-assault/ [quote]"A study of exotic dancers found that 100% had been physically assaulted in the clubs where they were employed, with a prevalence ranging from 3-15 times over the course of their involvement in exotic dancing. Violence included physical assault, attempted vaginal penetration, attempted rape,and rape (Holsopple, 1999)."[/quote] http://www.ccv.org/downloads/pdf/Strip_club_study.pdf Might also want to Google these, as they're cited in a bunch of the other studies: Forsyth and Deshotels Ronai & Ellis Reid, Epstein and Benson

I'm only looking at America and admittedly I was only looking for stats re violence, abuse and self-esteem issues. Plus the sample sizes aren't as big as I'd like but it may have been all that these researchers had to work with. Hey, you want to support your position, do your own research. Smile

http://www.snopes.com/graphics/icons/news/stripper.gif

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Thomas wrote:

Chai wrote:
nimh....would you get off this 99% thing?

that was settled long ago.

Where? And what was the outcome of the settlement?

I must have missed it too, Thomas.

I mean, all a bunch of us have done is expressing disagreement with these blanket statements, you know, whether it was about all, or most, or a literal or figurative 99%, or whatever.

Only response I've seen is that, well, those of us who disagree must just not really know what theyre talking about; must just not really have known the people we talked about; must just be stripclub visitors feeling guilty over their wanking; must just be Europeans; etc etc.

No acknowledgement that hey, yeah, they could have been wrong on that count!, that Ive seen. Perhaps too much to expect.

Chai wrote:

Ragman wrote:
Just out of curosity, are you two married?

jesus christ no.

Both my husband and I live by a code. One one says drop it, the other one does, and f*cking moves on.

Yeah, its odd how that doesnt work on a public forum.

Hey, I tried it too once. I was on a forum, and I said, "all conservatives are just wankers with a guilt complex". They all fell over me!

So when they started criticising me for what I said, I just went "lookit, you dont wanna talk about this anymore - just drop it." Strangely enough, they wouldnt!

They're weird..

/irony

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Great approach, Jespah. Just one more favor I need from you: Could you please post your access code to those of your articles who aren't accessible for mere mortals? (It's the majority.)

On second thought, I'm not sure how the findings in those papers would change my answer to the original question, which was: "It would neither make me happy nor unhappy if my wife was a stripper. I'd draw the line somewhere between stripping and sleeping with the men she strips for."

Whether or not society looks down on the woman I love for the job she works in, whether or not customers assault her at her job, whether or not her parents abused her, and whether or not all this has affected her self-esteem -- how is any of this relevant for my decision to marry her?

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Thomas wrote:

Great approach, Jespah. Just one more favor I need from you: Could you please post your access code to those of your articles who aren't accessible for mere mortals? (It's the majority.)

On second thought, I'm not sure how the findings in those papers would change my answer to the original question, which was: "It would neither make me happy nor unhappy if my wife was a stripper. I'd draw the line somewhere between stripping and sleeping with the men she strips for.

But apparently the idea that maybe the general majority of strippers have had issues and are screwed in the head was enough of a fire under your ass to go back and forth for 20+ pages pointing out there's just no proof....my article wasn't valid because the website it was on...and how at least 4 people here have met a "normal" stripper, so it's not fair to generalize.

Now that there's a bunch of articles/studies in your face, you don't know how it answers the poster's original question. You know, the one you've been answering the whole time.

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nimh wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Chai wrote:
nimh....would you get off this 99% thing?

that was settled long ago.

Where? And what was the outcome of the settlement?

I must have missed it too, Thomas.

I mean, all a bunch of us have done is expressing disagreement with these blanket statements, you know, whether it was about all, or most, or a literal or figurative 99%, or whatever.

Page Four

Bella Dea wrote:

nimh wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Just the strippers I've known...and those that other people I know have known.

Well, it seems that as of this thread, you also now know people who've known strippers who are not "stereotypical" - Noddy, NickFun, me, Miller..

Does that mean that next time, you wont say this, or do you really think that we have all just happened upon that elusive 1%?

Well, you don't live in the US so you don't count (not in that way, just in knowing strippers since I also pointed out this was a US observation)

And yes, 1% of the US is a fair amount of people so it's possible.Not to mention that 99% in the way I used it is not a scientific number but one stating that most (not all) are that way. IMO. Or rather should I say, my experience.

[/color]

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nimh wrote:

Setanta wrote:
That's a bullshit answer. If Slappy or Bella Dea said that 99% of strippers are dumb (and i'm not asserting that they have said so), the fact hat you knew one, and that's all you've claimed, one stripper is not evidence that 99% of strippers are not dumb.

Your case is no better than Bella's case, because there are at least thousands of strippers in the world, if not millions, and your having known one is not conclusive about the character of 99% of them.

If I had been the only one posting here, that might have been a remotely reasonable answer.

As it is, in the post you respond to, I explicitly refer not just to the girls I knew, but to the ones they knew, and to all the other people who have posted here.

If seven out of ten people here post that the ones they knew were no dumb, broken headcases, that makes the 99% thing rather unlikely.

Yes, statistically still possible - but somehow it seems unlikely to me ("instinctually", you could say), that all of us, from Noddy to NickFun, just happened upon that 1% of exceptions only.

Given that there are at least thousands of strippers in the world, if not millions, your sample is statistically insignificant--beside being anecdotal. You cannot verify the information that the one stripper you knew gave you. I also find it rather a stretch of credulity that you asked this stripper if other strippers are "dumb." Even had you done so, and said stripper told you she knows a couple of hundred strippers, and none of them are dumb, and leaving aside the subjective nature of the testimony--your claim does not serve to refute a claim that 99% of strippers are "dumb." That was my point. You jumped on Bella on a contention that your experience trumped hers because: "If your opinion is that all or almost all or 99% (literally or figuratively) of strippers is X, Y and Z, then no, you cant base that opinion on two or three or four girls you met." And that was a bullshit answer because your statistical sample was even smaller than hers. I'm not saying that she is correct to say that 99% of strippers are "dumb." I was just pointing out that your evidence was not sufficient to support a claim that yours was a rhetorically superior position.

You often, perhaps usually, argue well from analogy and with reference to statistical samples--the latter being no mean accomplishment, given how unreliable the research base for statistics often is, and the extent to which statistics are subject to interpretation. This wasn't one of those examples, though, it was just a bullshit answer.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

But apparently the idea that maybe the general majority of strippers have had issues and are screwed in the head was enough of a fire under your ass to go back and forth for 20+ pages pointing out there's just no proof.

Not that there isn't any proof -- but that you haven't presented any -- which you haven't.

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

...my article wasn't valid because the website it was on...

Actually, because of the source of the article -- an advocacy organization that cited no independent research.

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

and how at least 4 people here have met a "normal" stripper, so it's not fair to generalize.

What can I say? It isn't.

Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Now that there's a bunch of articles/studies in your face, you don't know how it answers the poster's original question. You know, the one you've been answering the whole time.

What can I say? It doesn't.

PS: Concerning the claim you made on page one, there actually isn't a bunch of articles/studies in my face. If you remember, your claim was:

Slappy Doo Hoo" wrote:

Are you f'n kidding me? Intelligent??? That...is...hilarious.

I've never met a stripper that had a f'n brain, or wasn't completely broken.

None of the research Jespah found measured the strippers' intelligence.

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Simple question Captain Argueverysentence:

Do you feel that strippers represent a normal sample of society when it comes to mental health, or would you agree that a higher percentage of strippers have had childhood issues than those outside working a sex trade?

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My apologies to Chai . . . i hadn't yet read your post. I'll be happy to drop the subject.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Do you feel that strippers represent a normal sample of society when it comes to mental health, or would you agree that a higher percentage of strippers have had childhood issues than those outside working a sex trade?

Feeling has nothing to do with it. I don't know. And because I don't know, and -- unlike you -- don't pretend to know, I presume they're pretty much like the rest of the populations, other things being equal. Of course, I'm always willing to let evidence override my presumptions if someone presents it -- which you haven't.

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There's a lot more evidence they generally have issues than you have showing they're a normal sample...

Jespah put up a bunch of links. I put up a "worthless" article. I've heard a sex/health doctor(Dr. Drew) state on his show many times strippers hate men, and most have had some kind of abuse growing up...I'll definitely take his opinion over someone who wouldn't otherwise know how to talk to a woman unless he's paying her for it.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

There's a lot more evidence they generally have issues than you have showing they're a normal sample...

You may well be right -- and that's why I called it a presumption.

When courts try a criminal case, they start with the presumption of innocence for the defendent innocent until the plaintiff's attorney proves him guilty. Analogously, when I think of any subset of society, I presume it similar to the rest of society until somebody proves to me that they're different. If you accused a court of having no evidence for presuming a defendent innocent, you would be right, but would also be missing the point. Likewise, when you accuse me of having no evidence for presuming strippers normal, you are right -- but you're missing the point.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

I'll definitely take his opinion over someone who wouldn't otherwise know how to talk to a woman unless he's paying her for it.

Feel free to phantasize about my personal life as much as you want. But given your usually quick wit, why did it take you two days to devise such a lame comeback to this slur of mine?

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

Do you feel that strippers represent a normal sample of society when it comes to mental health, or would you agree that a higher percentage of strippers have had childhood issues than those outside working a sex trade?

Well, that really is an interesting question.

Since - due to various reseasons - I know quite a lot about the data of the about 1,500 mentally ill persons in the three hospitals for mentally ill in our county (including the [still] largest hospital for mentally ill criminals in the federal republic ... I'm rather sure that no stripper at all is among them.

100% there's none among the 4,500 persons in our county who are cared for outside hospitals and have a legal guardian.

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Stripper as a wife.

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