Stripper as a wife.

Depends on what your opinion is.

If your opinion is that all or almost all or 99% (literally or figuratively) of strippers is X, Y and Z, then no, you cant base that opinion on two or three or four girls you met.

Me, I've never said anything about what all strippers, or almost all strippers, or 99% of strippers are like.

I just said that Slappy and you were wrong when you were saying that all or almost all of 'em are dumb, bad or sad (paraphrasing).

Cause I cant speak about what 50% or 70% or 99% of strippers are like; but with those two girls I knew, what they said about other girls who worked, and what a bunch of other posters here have said about the ones they knew, I can say that it's more than just the figurative 1% who is NOT like what you and Slappy said.

I suppose that has a lot to do with the clientele: origianally spectators weren't that 'burlesque' as they were in the USA (e.g. stritease was part of the left-bourgeoise-political 'salon culture' here.)

That's a bullshit answer. If Slappy or Bella Dea said that 99% of strippers are dumb (and i'm not asserting that they have said so), the fact hat you knew one, and that's all you've claimed, one stripper is not evidence that 99% of strippers are not dumb.

Your case is no better than Bella's case, because there are at least thousands of strippers in the world, if not millions, and your having known one is not conclusive about the character of 99% of them.

Er... she can base her opinion on whatever she wishes. Arguing that her opinion reflects reality is another matter.

Although they might have degrees or go to school or have some street sense, most strippers are dumb in the sense that...THEY TAKE OFF THEIR CLOTHES AND LET DRUNK GUYS DROOL ALL OVER THEM FOR MONEY IN SEEDY BARS.

It's basically making yourself into an object to be purchased, which, in my opinion, is a very stupid thing to do. Not to mention the risk of being raped, treated like ****, punched around, or the many other negative possibilities that come with this lifestyle. So maybe many of them aren't complete dimwits, but they are doing something very stupid for a living.

Dumbass bee-yatches!

Damn yes it's simple nimh...this is what I've been trying to f'ing say for the last I don't know how many pages...and for some reason you can't seem to understand that.

Like I said, you're really making this like it's all about you or something...what does a person have to do......write out the same 100 word disclaimer every time he/she posts?

ok...listen....I am saying the same thing bella is.....a lot of what you are saying is also what I am saying....I can't help it if you think I need to repeat every time that I'm not saying 100% are this or 100% are that.

You have taken what I'm saying and made it into so much more than it was meant to, or needs to be.

If you don't agree with this post, fine...let's not drag this on any further nimh.

I haven't had the time, but for my own education I've been meaning to look up any work on the phychological impact doing this for a living as on a person...however, something said before, and it doesn't matter by whom, about showing evidence of damage made me think....

There are things in life people know intuitively...and don't need a scientific study to realize there is truth. Now AGAIN, for nimh benefit, I'm NOT saying this about every person who chooses a profession in the sex trade....there is an intuitive truth in what I've been saying.....that the life of a stripper is a sad one...if you don't like the word sad, substitute another.
Just as you don't need facts and figures to or other means to quantify the love of a parent for a child, or the fact most people prefer mild sunny days...I intuit, and I firmly believe, that overall the life of someone who makes a living by exposing her genitals to men for money is not leading a mentally healthy life., and she was led to this life more often then not by feeling she was not worthy to perform other work.

Regarding evidence...vs. intuitiveness....Example...I do not need evidence to say that abusing, mentally or physically a child is wrong....I do not need to prove that to someone...that is something felt in the gut as true.

So, I cannot make the assumption that the business between a stripper and an audience is just like any other business relationship. The gut tells you that's not true. One can choose to assume one thing or the other.

Having an arm objectified is not the same as having someone's genitals seen separately from the rest of the person...The gut tells you that is so.

I first mentioned the incidences of strippers I've known in the hopes that there wouldn't be a cry of "you couldn't know"...that obviously meant nothing....

Now, I'm going with my gut...before I decided, against my gut to list out people, what I wanted to say, well...is what I just said.

People can hide behind supersitions, folk lore, heresay...but they can also hide behind facts.
The deep down gut of a person is seldom wrong.

now nimh...I intuit and feel deep in my gut I will not ever say anything here that you somehow won't make it much more than what is said...

so what the hell...go ahead.
Please wear yourself out on me so we can move ahead.

I be TELLin' you...

Oops, wrong thread. Carry on...

Thank you Officer Thought Police.

I be tellin' you...what the hell.

I so disagree with you on this one....

You know...looking at the people who have posted here...those from Europe vs. those from America, suddenly the problem is so clear.

the Europeans are confused by the Americans assertions.

I can't say that I know the first thing about the trade in Europe, but it doesn't seem the Euros know the first thing about the trade here.

In Europe apparantly this is a respect trade.

Here, it is not.

Kicky said a lot....a lot about the dangers that may not exist in Europe.

A striper her is much more likely to be raped, I'm thinking, than her counterpart overseas.
She very likely going to get beaten up, badly at some point...with lesser slaps arounds on a regular basis.
She's more likely to have terrible things said to her.
She's more likely to be an addict.
To be an unwed mother with no father around to help.

so...to an american...it IS a very dumb thing to choose this as a job.

I can't speak to what it's like in Europe, and furthermore, it doesn't matter, because that's not where I live, and that's not the reality I live in.

nimh...perhaps all along you have been talking about the relatively happy existance an European stripper has.
It is simply not so here. And no amount your posting is going to change that. It's simply NOT a respected, admired profession.

period.

That's ok.

I so agree with you (Chai) on this one...

Metallic?


If I saw someone's genitals that were separate from the rest of the person, I think my gut would tell me I'm about to throw up.

That's reason enough to reassess your position, Chai.

I think we've tried to establish that American and European views are very different (at least I have) but no one seems to hear that.

I've never claimed to know a thing about European strippers and have stated so.

I do claim to know about American strippers. And have asserted my opinions on them.

Go ahead, you'll still come to the same conclusion. We have been trained to overthink everything... trust your gut.

Okay. I spoke last week with a couple of them, studying at the New York Fim Academy (or having studied there) and appearing as well at the 5th Annual New York Burlesque Festival.

They like to entertain and din't seem to be stupid at all.

But that's just my opinion.

And that's just a couple of them.

Burlesque is a different thing, by the way. I would not put burlesque show entertainers in the same class as strippers. Totally different environment. Maybe what we Americans think of as burlesque is what Europeans think of as strippers.

When did Noddy and JoefromChicago move?

~~~

I think you could posit that there are different opinions on the subject, but I don't think you can even get to women and men having different opinions on the subject, let alone continental differences.