At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

To repeat, this would not have happened had he not had ridiculously easy access to hand guns.

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How do you know? Maybe he would have used knives or even a bomb.

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TTH wrote:

How do you know? Maybe he would have used knives or even a bomb.

Remember, he's been traced now to several bomb threats recently received by the campus community.

He may have contemplated using a knife on his victims, since in one of his papers, he mentions cutting throats side-to-side.

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No doubt you can build your own hand gun as you can build your own bomb but its a lot easier to buy a 9mm Glock from a shop in Roanoake. I repeat this tragedy would not have happened had he not had EASY ACCESS TO LETHAL WEAPONS. (And the idea that he could have taken captive and killed 30 odd students and teachers with a knife is ludicrous).

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Steve 41oo wrote:

No doubt you can build your own hand gun as you can build your own bomb but its a lot easier to buy a 9mm Glock from a shop in Roanoake. I repeat this tragedy would not have happened had he not had EASY ACCESS TO LETHAL WEAPONS. (And the idea that he could have taken captive and killed 30 odd students and teachers with a knife is ludicrous).

No more ludicrous than the thought that a 23 year old college student at a school the size of Virginia Tech needs to go to a store to buy a gun (anymore than he needs to go to a store to get drugs.)Further, any student bright enough to hack VT is bright enough to build a bomb that could dwarf this tragedy. Your contention is ridiculous.

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What's ridiculous is the contention that easy access to handguns has no direct connection to this kind of tragedy.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

To repeat, this would not have happened had he not had ridiculously easy access to hand guns.

Yeah, because a little poisen from the chemistry lab would have been REALLY hard to get. Maybe some rat poisen would could have done some harm.

If you are as intent on killing people as this guy was (he freakin' chained the damn door) you will find a way using whatever is available to you. Gun or not, this guy was messed up.

To repeat, this guy would have done something if he had access to handguns or not.

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I've said elsewhere there needs to be a paradigm shift in American attitudes towards guns and gun ownership. If you live in a society where its legal to sell a 9mm Glock to a homicidal/suicidal fruitcake like Chung, mass murder is what you get. I'm going to stick with the message that it would not have happened if he couldnt easily buy the guns until it gets through to some people.

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Guns are available to Americans so that they may defend themselves against criminals, against their own goverment, and against foreign invaders. It's unfortunate that the ability to defend one's person and family also confers the ability to attack innocent people, but it doesn't negate the first right. This stuff has been debated since the Founding Fathers first deliberately inserted recognition of this right into our constitution. Furthermore, the right cannot be repealed, unless the constitution is changed, which I hope doesn't happen.

Background checks of those attempting to purchase guns are a very good thing, but this particular shooter had no criminal record, and I doubt one could ban everyone who'd sought psychiatric help from buying guns.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

it gets through to some people.

Good luck with that.

The FACT remains that guns are NOT going away. As much as you want them to, they aren't and for a varitey of reasons, not the least of which is that there are 240 million of them in the US and approx 400 million in North America. You know our current border situation, so even IF you rounded up the 240 million in the US, there'd be million driven over the border every day.

The FACT also remains that if ONE of those students had a deadly hand gun, then this incident would have ended with far fewer deaths.

So, with that out of the way you need to look at other solutions to have stopped this shooting. My solution, either a) allow the teachers/students to conceal carry, or b) allow the teachers to conceal carry, or c) metal detectors at every entrance.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I've said elsewhere there needs to be a paradigm shift in American attitudes towards guns and gun ownership. If you live in a society where its legal to sell a 9mm Glock to a homicidal/suicidal fruitcake like Chung, mass murder is what you get. I'm going to stick with the message that it would not have happened if he couldnt easily buy the guns until it gets through to some people.

Legal has little to do with it. Why is that not getting through? Drugs are illegal too. Doesn't make much difference to a 23 year old student.

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It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.
It would not have happened if the school allowed concealed carry.

I wonder if steve's approach of saying the same thing over and over will work for me....it's not working too well for him.

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maporsche wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
To repeat, this would not have happened had he not had ridiculously easy access to hand guns.

Yeah, because a little poisen from the chemistry lab would have been REALLY hard to get. Maybe some rat poisen would could have done some harm.

If you are as intent on killing people as this guy was (he freakin' chained the damn door) you will find a way using whatever is available to you. Gun or not, this guy was messed up.

To repeat, this guy would have done something if he had access to handguns or not.

I really dont think you should let loose with your fingers until your brain is engaged porsche. How do you commit mass murder with rat poison? You speculate that he would have killed without a gun. You dont know that. Even if he did I can counter speculate that the damage he could do without a gun would not be as bad. His disturbed personality provided the motivation. Your absurd gun laws provided the means.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Legal has little to do with it. Why is that not getting through?

Its the easy availablity of guns thats the problem. And they are readily available because you can LEGALLY BUY A 9MM PISTOL AT THE CORNER STORE. Thats just crazy. And the idea that concealed carried weapons makes people safe is lunacy from the planet mad.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

How do you commit mass murder with rat poison?

Are you really asking that question? Maybe you're the one who should wait before your let loose with your fingers.

In China, where private ownership of guns is prohibited, you see quite a few incidents of death by rat poison. I wonder if that's because they don't have access to guns.........hmmm.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1032150782300B251

According to this article, there are 100,000 serious food poisonings in China, 70% of which is from rat poison.
http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1011233

Here's just a couple of examples of specificlly rat poison, but there are many more of sick/twisted people killing just as easily with poisons, lethal doses of drugs or chemicals, etc. And this is despite the fact that guns are legal in the US. If they were illegal, this number would jump up quite a bit.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Legal has little to do with it. Why is that not getting through?
Its the easy availablity of guns thats the problem. And they are readily available because you can LEGALLY BUY A 9MM PISTOL AT THE CORNER STORE. Thats just crazy. And the idea that concealed carried weapons makes people safe is lunacy from the planet mad.

You obviously don't know what it's like to be an American. Guns, like drugs are readily available, whether the corner store sells them or not. The corner store owner has assisted the investigation. A local weed salesman (or his connection)(which is the logical next choice and is arguably easier), would not have been as helpful.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Legal has little to do with it. Why is that not getting through?
Its the easy availablity of guns thats the problem. And they are readily available because you can LEGALLY BUY A 9MM PISTOL AT THE CORNER STORE. Thats just crazy. And the idea that concealed carried weapons makes people safe is lunacy from the planet mad.

Maybe you missed this point.

Quote:

Good luck with that.

The FACT remains that guns are NOT going away. As much as you want them to, they aren't and for a varitey of reasons, not the least of which is that there are 240 million of them in the US and approx 400 million in North America. You know our current border situation, so even IF you rounded up the 240 million in the US, there'd be million driven over the border every day.

The FACT also remains that if ONE of those students had a deadly hand gun, then this incident would have ended with far fewer deaths.

So, with that out of the way you need to look at other solutions to have stopped this shooting. My solution, either a) allow the teachers/students to conceal carry, or b) allow the teachers to conceal carry, or c) metal detectors at every entrance.

I wonder if you're as concerned with speeders who kill FAR more people than shooters.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

You obviously don't know what it's like to be an American. Guns, like drugs are readily available, whether the corner store sells them or not. The corner store owner has assisted the investigation. A local weed salesman (or his connection)(which is the logical next choice and is arguably easier), would not have been as helpful.

OBill, earlier I made the point about the similarities between the gun argument and the warrentless wiretapping arguments, but with the same political sides disagreeing with each other using the same terminology.

I'm curious what your positions are on these two recent issues in the US.

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Open a thread and link it. This one's far enough off the tracks.

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maporsche wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
How do you commit mass murder with rat poison?

Are you really asking that question?

Yes would you like to answer it?

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At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

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