At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

Brandon9000 wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
and yes I am putting the boot into gun toting ignorant Americans. Because they, and it is a minority, deserve it.

And a couple of hours after a large national tragedy is such a perfect time to do it.

well I could go the other way and say why should I care? They were only Americans students. Nothing uncommon or important happened.

The fact is I do care Brandon, I care quite a bit. And I am outraged by your country's stupid archaic irrational dangerous and idiotic gun laws. But perhaps I shouldnt bother.

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Setanta wrote:

Yeah right . . . find a depressive sociopath, and give him a book, and count the corpses which result. Then give him a gun, and repeat the exercise . . .

First of all, you can't count the violence which can result from speech or books, because it usually doesn't happen immediately or in a way in which cause and effect are clear, but ideas can certainly cause violence. That doesn't however, means that the free expression of ideas should be banned.

My point, though, was that all freedoms are messy and expensive. For example, if a widely unpopular group demonstrates, a lot of money may be spent on having police around to keep order. In fact, the idea that books and the ideas they bear lead to strife is exactly the reason given in Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451" for making books illegal. The reason why that argument is false, is that freedom is worth the mess it causes.

England has made its people powerless by banning guns. That's one solution, but I don't think it's the right one.

Also, I think it's in rather poor taste to use this terrible thing as yet another excuse for bashing America.

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It is not the book which is the proximate cause of death, which is a point which it seems you are either to dense to absorb, or are intent upon ignoring. The book doesn't "cause" the violence, any more than the gun "causes" the violence--the pathology of the individual causes the violence. The principle difference however, is that you likely couldn't beat 30 people to death with a book, whereas it's a relatively simple matter to shoot 30 people dead if you've got the time and opportunity. It was a pretty stupid remark on your part, Brandon, but i'm not surprised to see you attempting to defend it.

Comparing the free exchange of ideas to the freedom to carry lethal force in your pocket is pretty damned witless, but, once again, i'm not suprised to see you attempting to equate the two. I learned long ago that when it comes to political matters, you will go to any lengths to suggest that murderous absurdities can be justified by specious appeals to faulty logic.

As for the timing of Steve's remarks, and the contention that this is an example of "America bashing," his remarks are directed at the gun laws, not the nation, and unless you allege that you have personally lost friends or family, i consider your outrage to be in the character of crocodile tears.

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One keeps hearing from gun enthusists that guns do not kill people do. That is indeed true however, keeping guns out of peoples hands is the best deterrent.

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Anyone who is pro guns after such a horrific crime is not in their right
mind. Gun control is a MUST now!!

It is sickening to see young life wasted like this, absolute sickening.

My heart goes out to all the families and students involved.

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Quote:

England has made its people powerless by banning guns.

On the contrary, England has made its most vulnerable people feel safer by banning guns.

I can walk the streets at night and send my children to school without worrying that any of us will be shot and killed while going about our business in the course of a normal day.

I'm not bashing America- I love America in a lot of ways- but Jesus God- when is this **** ever going to end. Something's got to change.

And you can be assured I'm not crying crocodile tears.

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Apparently the gunman had several weapons on him. They don't know yet where they came from, nor who he is. He shot himself badly (in the face, I think), they don't know if on purpose or by accident.
He had a handgun as well as automatic (or semi-automatic) gun, possibly more, i'm not sure.

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I was hoping someone had been watching this and would post the article. I heard about this while I was at work today but it was very sketchy because it was just customers commenting on what they had heard on the radio. This is a very sad thing. Yet again... Unfortunately this sort of thing seems to turning into common practice here in the US.

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It's a good thing that they have a law against concealed carry on campus in VA. It obviously prevented this perpetrator from bringing a gun onto the campus and I expect it to have similar success in the future.

Thanks Brady! You're the reason that 32 people are dead.

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Prohibition didn't work, did it. If things get banned, crazy like a fox folks will find some other way to kill.

I think it's the fear factor that drives many unstable people over the edge.

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I guess it was a given that this horrible tragedy would bring out the nuts on both sides.

But the one side seems to have brought their nuts by the truckload.

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I wonder if the campus authorities should have done more during the two hour delay between incidents? Or is that the benefit of hindsight 20/20?

Quote:

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a Virginia Tech dorm and then, two hours later, shot up a classroom across campus Monday, killing 32 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history. The gunman committed suicide, bringing the death toll to 33.

Gunman, 32 others killed in Va. shooting

(forgive me if this has been discussed, didn't read all through the pages)

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I've been told by several people that because I'm a small, white, female I should consider carrying a gun to "protect myself". I refuse to do it though. I fail to see how that would help solve any issues. I just try to stay out of situations where I would need a gun... right? Though I guess this incident shows there's really no predicting when or how someone might go on a shooting spree.

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Letty wrote:

Prohibition didn't work, did it. If things get banned, crazy like a fox folks will find some other way to kill.

I think it's the fear factor that drives many unstable people over the edge.

It works perfectly well in other countries, Miss Letty, why shouldn't
it in the United States?

I repeat myself, but gun control is inevitable now, it has to be done!

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CalamityJane wrote:

Anyone who is pro guns after such a horrific crime is not in their right
mind. Gun control is a MUST now!!

Gun control is the perfect way to keep legal firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. What makes you think someone willing to attempt murder cares about whether his gun is legal?

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Cerealkiller, so far all mass killings were committed by so called
"law abiding citizens" without prior convictions, and most of them were
young, too young to waste their lives in this manner.

You're just looking for an excuse to carry a gun.

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I just saw Charlton Heston NRA president brandishing a gun and challenging anyone to take it out of his cold dead hand. (Is he dead yet?)

Well actually I give up. Play with lethal weapons all you like. Teach toddlers to shoot each other. Firarms for fetuses! Why not we all heard of shotgun weddings.

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Drugs are illegal and somehow they're still making it across our border, into our streets, our schools, our playgrounds. Why would guns be any different?

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CerealKiller wrote:

Gun control is the perfect way to keep legal firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. What makes you think someone willing to attempt murder cares about whether his gun is legal?

Legislation to reduce the availability of guns would help.

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Treya wrote:

Drugs are illegal and somehow they're still making it across our border, into our streets, our schools, our playgrounds. Why would guns be any different?

I think, theft, murder, drinking under 21 etc etc is illegal as well.

You're right: why should guns make a difference Shocked

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At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

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