At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

sozobe wrote:

Why did they need the detention order then...?

I would guess its all about the paperwork.

In a lock down facility people can be there voluntarily or involuntarily but both need paperwork.

The university said it did not know whether Cho had gone to the hospital on his own or was taken there under protective custody, which is a possibility under a temporary detention order.

Authorities did not say how much time Cho had spent at the hospital.

From the rest of the story fishin...

Quote:

The university said it did not know whether Cho had gone to the hospital on his own or was taken there under protective custody, which is a possibility under a temporary detention order.

Authorities did not say how much time Cho had spent at the hospital.

woiyo wrote:

Guns are "violent". Violence is an emotion. Guns have no emotion. Therefore, your opinion must be ignored as you are NUTS.

Now THAT is funny. Violence is an emotion?


And you call me NUTS.

parados wrote:

woiyo wrote:

Guns are "violent". Violence is an emotion. Guns have no emotion. Therefore, your opinion must be ignored as you are NUTS.

Now THAT is funny. Violence is an emotion?


And you call me NUTS.

Main Entry: vi·o·lent
Pronunciation: -l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin violentus; akin to Latin vis strength -- more at VIM
1 : marked by extreme force or sudden intense activity <a>
2 a : notably furious or vehement <a> b : EXTREME, INTENSE <violent> <violent>
3 : caused by force : not natural <a>
4 a : emotionally agitated to the point of loss of self-control <became> b : prone to commit acts of violence <violent>
- vi·o·lent·ly adverb

Main Entry: 1vi·o·lent Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: -nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin violentus; akin to Latin violare to violate -- more at VIOLATE
1 : characterized by extreme force <a> : marked by abnormally sudden physical activity and intensity <a>
2 : furious or vehement to the point of being improper, unjust, or illegal <lay> <a>
3 : extremely or intensely vivid or loud <violent> <violent> : unusually intense <violent> : unnaturally strong <violent>
4 : produced or effected by force : UNNATURAL <a> <come>
5 : tending to distort or misrepresent <a>
6 : extremely excited : emotionally aroused <become>
- vi·o·lent·ly adverb


Citation format for this entry:

"violent." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (18 Apr. 2007).

Main Entry: vi·o·lence Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: vln(t)s sometimes vl-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin violentia, from violentus violent + -ia -y
1 a : exertion of any physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare or in effecting an entrance into a house) b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
2 : injury in the form of revoking, repudiation, distortion, infringement, or irreverence to a thing, notion, or quality fitly valued or observed <no> <did>
3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious action, force, or feeling often destructive <the> <hurled> <the>
4 : undue alteration of wording or sense (as in editing or interpreting a text)
synonym see FORCE


Citation format for this entry:

"violence." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (18 Apr. 2007).

By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer 5 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, Va. - The Virginia Tech gunman sent photographs, videos and writings to NBC in New York before he died in the massacre that left 33 people dead, authorities said Wednesday.

NBC said it turned the package to authorities on Wednesday.

"This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation. We're in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evalute its worth," said Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police.

Though many times I have felt I don't belong to the Obama community, and as I still search for a spot where I fit, I know through some email friends I have made, that all of the Obama community care about others. So I want to share with all of you the loss of my beautiful niece Emily at Virginia Tech.

After over 24 hours in a desparate wait and spending hours on the phone trying to keep up my sister's spirits, we finally received the news we knew was coming. I missed my flight to Virginia last night, so will shortly be travelling to Virginia to be with my sister as she brings her little girl home. While I wait for my ride to the airport, so many thoughts about the little girl I knew and loved come to mind and I felt a need to share with all of you. My sister has lost her beloved daughter, my niece, Emily in the Virginia Tech tragedy.

Perhaps in telling you about her just a little, it will help me look at her life which was so full of promise, and her complete happiness at being a student at VT so that I can somehow pull myself together so I can help my sister cope these next few days.

Emily dearly loved animals, and spent so much of her time volunteering to help those less fortunate. What is sadly a cooincidence, the reason she was identified so early is the fact that when she was very young, my sister had her fingerprints taken as a safety measure during one of those drives the police did at local schools. These same fingerprints taken when she was so little were used to confirm her identify. Waiting for confirmation is an agony in itself, and many families are still waiting, though they know in their hearts that the confirmation will come.

While all the news networks discuss nonstop the events, it is for us to learn the story of those who died.

Emily was active, though only a freshman, in working to put a group together to volunteer and do activities to get the students involved in Senator Obama's campaign. She was truly excited to be involved in working for Senator Obama's election, and at the same time was maintaining a 4.0 average in school. Though she had not yet joined the Barack Obama VT group, she was planning to. There are thousands of students at VT and she wanted to get to meet each and every Obama supporter and get involved with their activities. Emily was a very gifted horsewoman, who had a beloved horse called, My Shadow. She called him that because he followed her wherever she walked, she called him her best friend. Emily wanted to go on to be a Vet, and she was also interested in politics, looking forward to the promise of a better country if Senator Obama was elected. Emily proudly showed everyone Senator Obama's webstream, and had her own gathering at school so they could talk about the issues. Emily was a friendly and outgoing girl, loved spending time helping a local Veterinarian during high school, and had many friends. Emily was a gifted chemist, one of her many skills. Emily was always well liked and admired by her high school classmates and her new college friends. She was eager to get home for the summer so she could spend time with her family, take her horse to some horse shows, and just hang out with her friends. She was also planning on doing some events in Virginia with her mom to help campaign for Senator Obama. She was really excited to be part of Senator Obama's campaign and was even looking forward to just going door to door handing out flyers. What made my sister, her mom laugh, she was working on a "cooling blanket" (that is a blanket that covers a horse while they are being walked after performing in a horse show) that had Obama 08 on it. She thought it would be fun to have her horse as a walking billboard for the Senator. That is an example of the "fun spirit" she had. My sister related to me her excitement that Senator and Mrs. Obama had begun a group called Women for Obama. Emily thought it was something she could do with her Mom and was excited about it.

Emily called me last week to check on how I was feeling, which was so like her, to be thinking of others. She sounded so happy and proud of her grades and looking forward to next year when she would finally be able to include some of her desired courses and not the required 'freshman" core requirements. Little did I know at the time when we said goodbye it would be for the last time.

She lived in the same dorm where the first shooting took place. We have not been told exactly where our Emily was found, and in truth, it makes no difference. I am sure in time my sister will want to know more details, but this is not a time for that. All she can think of right now is bringing her little girl home.

I ask all of you to take a moment and think about the stories behind the lost lives.

In high school Emily was involved in Equine Therapy for Disabled children, and at the end of her life, it seems strange she would end her life on the same day as a wonderful Professor who specialized in researching ways to help disabled children, a friend, who had promised to look out for her.This Professor was one of the top 5 experts in the country in his field, and as I mourn the loss of my niece, I also think about the loss to so many disabled children suffering from Cerebral Palsy who would have benefited from this one gifted Professor's research.

There was the 76 year old Professor, a survivor of the Holocost who sacrificed himself as he barred the door so his students could jump out a window. This Professor was admired for his struggle to achieve and his desire to teach. And the stories could go on. My sister and her husband have bonded with the families who are suffering and have relayed so many of these stories to me. So the losses extend and affect many. There will be memorials, candlelight vigils, and the deep sadness of the VT community of students, but I ask you all to think of the people behind the names and faces, and the lives they lived and the hope in their future while you listen to endless discussions on the person who committed this terrible event. I have to share with you this, my sister holds no hate in her heart towards him, and she also knows his family must also be devastated, not only by losing a son, but the even more terrible thought that it was their son who committed this terrible act. A son with many problems which are now being examined nonstop by news programs. We don't want to hear these details. The families at this time, and indeed the students, are thinking only of the loss of so many, and care not what reporters, news shows, and blog "pundits" write about. They are numb, and in pain, and want their loved one remembered.

A special "Remember VT" website has been set up here: http://www.remembervt.com/remember.html Emily's picture has been added to this new Memorial Website. I ask you to use this site instead of the private site on Facebook being used by the heartbroken students at VT, if you wish to leave messages of support. This site will grow as new faces and new names are added. I ask you to remember the stories behind the lives lost as you visit this site. My heart is broken over the loss of such a promising young lady, who had so much to offer, and whose life has been taken so senselessly, yet so many promising lives have been lost. I want to thank you for allowing me to have a place where I could share my loss and more importantly, the loss of such a beautiful young girl, who was truly a member of the Barack Obama college community of supporters. I ask you to send your love to the VT group that is part of the Barack Obama Website at: http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/VTStudentsforObama and show you care, as they still don't know who they have lost and it just may be one of their own. This group is part of the family of supporters of Senator Obama. Pray for them now as they deal with their loss. I suspect they are not currently using the site or their group, but they will return as they resume their normal college life along with their other activities, so they will be back.

While I am in a state of just being numb, I am sure the grieving will come, but we are only one family affected and there will be many; many of whom have yet to be told they have indeed lost their loved one. My sister's husband tells me that there are families, just sitting there waiting to receive official confirmation that indeed their child is gone and their desparation to receive their loved one and take them home. Please keep them all in your hearts, and those of our own, the VT Students for Obama. Give them the privacy they need at this time and give them the support they will need in the days to come. This is still a growing group of VT students and now, as they take the time to take care of themselves, pray for them to have the strength to carry on.

Thank you for allowing me to share our Emily with you.

"In Memoriam"

Emily Hilscher
Freshman, Animal and Poultry Sciences, Equine Science

May she always remain in our hearts, and may her example of caring and joy shine in the hearts and minds of the lives she touched. Rest my dear Emily and know you will always be in my heart forever.

Thank you for allowing me this avenue to express some feelings and share with you just one story behind the names and faces of those that lost their lives. May I have the strength and wisdom to bring comfort to my sister as she says goodbye to her beautiful Emily, a truly special gift from God so quickly taken in an act of violence. I pray not only for my family and my beloved niece, but all the families affected and the wonderful students and faculty who must deal with this long after the news reporters are gone and the spotlight goes out. There will be an emptiness no one can fill, for they have lost so much in one short span of time and it can never be given back, yet these wonderful students express hope for their future and are trying to remain strong in the face of what has happened. I am so proud of them.

I ask you all to show your support for all the Virginia groups that belong to the Barack Obama community, for many of them have friends who go to this school and may also know the families or even the victims of the tragedy.

Thank you and God Bless

Fran
citizenforbarackobama


Note: I have just been notified an additional page has been added to the Memorial Site where they are listing some activities they are working on, along with getting a wristband ready as fast as they can if people wish to support the fund they are setting up to build a memorial to those lost.

I now leave to join my sister in Virginia. Please keep in your hearts all of the Virginia groups for Obama and the college groups who are showing their support for Virginia Tech, and most especially, the group, VT Students for Obama

parados wrote:

From the rest of the story fishin...

Quote:

The university said it did not know whether Cho had gone to the hospital on his own or was taken there under protective custody, which is a possibility under a temporary detention order.

Authorities did not say how much time Cho had spent at the hospital.

And? You're grasping at straws.

A court order was issued by a duly appointed magistrate committing him to a mental health facility. Are you seriously trying to claim that because he may have been given the option of getting himself to the facility at the appointed time that it was voluntary?

Are you seriously trying to claim he wasn't given that option?

There is no conclusive evidence that he was involuntarily committed. Since we have no conclusive evidence we can't claim the gun check failed on that grounds.

Who cares what the English Common Law says. We go by the Constitution.

Agree Set. I NEVER been with anyone who used a handgun for hunting, especially a .44. It would not be a smart thing to do to use such a high caliber weapon for hunting.

Note: I am pro 2nd amendment and a rifle owner (several). Yet some of the srguments from the "pro gun" sect are just dumb.

Quote:

There are people who would prefer that this thread not be about gun rights, but instead be a source of breaking news on the shooting anyway.

That's a nice cop out . . . you make comments on other peoples' posts, but then bow out on continuing the discussion because of a tender regard for the feelings of others which you ignored while making your previous replies.

Perhaps you could provide a source for your remarks on the English common law and gun rights. I've been searching the web ever since i made that post, and can find no evidence that Blackstone included any comments on firearms in his watershed Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765-69).

It is clear to me, whether or not it is clear to handgun ownership proponents, that it is the sense of the Supreme Court that both the Congress and the States may regulate the militia, up to and including legislation on the nature of the arms which the unorganized militia may bear.

oralloy wrote:

Some handguns are also good for hunting. The .44 magnum is one of those handguns.

A handgun is not necessary for hunting, and handguns were never designed for hunting. Running deer down with a pickup truck can be very effective, too--that doesn't mean that a pickup truck is or ought to be the weapon of choice for deer hunting.

oralloy wrote:

I am not sure that a .44 magnum is particularly good for anti-personnel use. Something with less recoil for more rapid shooting would seem better suited to that task.

That doesn't alter the fact that the weapon was designed for shooting people, and not for hunting or for target shootin.

oralloy wrote:

Also, guns designed to kill people have a legitimate place in the hands of civilians, because in some cases (like self defense) lethal force is a legitimate civilian activity.

That is a matter of opinion, and another matter of opinion is my opinion with regard to the opinion you have just expressed. Attitudes such as you have expressed are exemplary of why the problem cannot be solved.

I think your point is that the right refers to "arms" and not specifically to firearms. I concede that point.