At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

Btw, BBB, if the shooter's name in his native Asia is Seung-Hui Cho then the networks are absolutely right in referring to him as Mr. Seung-Hui. In Asia -- i.e., China, Korea,. Indo-China -- the family name always comes first, followed by the personal pronomen. Apparently he adopted the Western custom of putting the family name last and thus here he is known as Co Seung-Hui.

Please don't thank me. Smile

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I heard on NPR that Cho's old English teacher had already asked for help from the police and the U's guidance counsellors because she felt he was deeply disturbed. Apparently she was not heeded, and now she feels guilty .

I think it was too early for such a convocation. It was done just to do something. They dont even have all the victims id'd yet.

A hero has been identified. One of the dead professors guarded the doors until his students got out of the windows of his class. He then stood in the way of the gunman as he broke into the room . This gave the last of his students the chance to get away. The students last leaving said they saw him take bullets in the chest. The 71 year old prof was a holocaust survivor. I need to find something redeeming out of this whole tragedy, something that doesnt celebrate the worst in us like the news reporters .. im sorry I didnt catch the prof's name.

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farmerman wrote:

I heard on NPR that Cho's old English teacher had already asked for help from the police and the U's guidance counsellors because she felt he was deeply disturbed. Apparently she was not heeded, and now she feels guilty .

I think it was too early for such a convocation. It was done just to do something. They dont even have all the victims id'd yet.

A hero has been identified. One of the dead professors guarded the doors until his students got out of the windows of his class. He then stood in the way of the gunman as he broke into the room . This gave the last of his students the chance to get away. The students last leaving said they saw him take bullets in the chest. The 71 year old prof was a holocaust survivor. I need to find something redeeming out of this whole tragedy, something that doesnt celebrate the worst in us like the news reporters .. im sorry I didnt catch the prof's name.

It was Liviu Librescu - what a wonderful person.

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Thanks. I think that, with a proper memorial on , say Sunday or Monday, the full story of this mans heroism would help in the healing process somewhat. I want To know that his act of selfless bravery had not allowed everything to be seen in a light of cynical hopelessness.

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Farmer, I bet it is this man - I copied this from a link on Miller's thread about the Shooter leaving a Note (sorry no link)

Among the dead was a professor, Liviu Librescu. Students who were in Librescu's engineering class at Norris Hall told the Tribune late Monday that the professor tried to protect the students in his class when they realized a gunmen was loose in the building.

Alec Calhoun was in Librescu's solid mechanics engineering class when gunfire erupted in the room next door. He said Librescu, went to the door and pushed himself against it in case the shooter tried to come in.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

The whole problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are generally not enforced, not that they don't exist.

Which ones?

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The link to Miller's thread, the thread post giving a list of so far identified victims -
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94859&highlight=

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maporsche wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

The whole problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are generally not enforced, not that they don't exist.

Which ones?

Which ones what? Did you even read the rest of my post?

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Merry Andrew wrote:

The whole problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are generally not enforced, not that they don't exist.

No... the problem is "law abiding criminals" is an oxymoron. Ex-cons etc. know they can't register a weapon legally, so they turn to the black market to get them illegally. Gun control has proven as effective as marijuana control, in all reality. He who wants a gun can still purchase one, regardless of what legislation is passed.

This sad incident is much like a suicide bombing, in that NO realistic legislation could ever prevent it. I doubt arming students would prove a very wise idea, but arming Professors, like Pilots, and other professionals in positions of heightened trust is probably worth exploring. A gun in Professor Librescu's hands (if he'd volunteered for it) may well have proven a very good idea.

Ps. I don't know what everyone liked so much about Set's post, beyond being an interesting read. The conclusion seemed to be that gun control would work if we got serious about it for a couple of centuries. That's hardly a solution to any problem we're facing today.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Merry Andrew wrote:

The whole problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are generally not enforced, not that they don't exist.

Which ones?

Which ones what? Did you even read the rest of my post?

Yes I read you post. The only part that I had a problem with was your statement that gun control laws are not enforced. I'm curious which laws you don't think are enforced, and can you provide any proof of that.

Now if your statement were, "The problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are not consistent from state to state." Then I wouldn't have a problem with what you said.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Ps. I don't know what everyone liked so much about Set's post, beyond being an interesting read. The conclusion seemed to be that gun control would work if we got serious about it for a couple of centuries. That's hardly a solution to any problem we're facing today.

I was thinking the same thing OBill. His solution is that we should disarm law abiding citizens TODAY so that in 200 YEARS guns will no longer be needed. How about we focus on disarming criminals first.

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maporsche wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Ps. I don't know what everyone liked so much about Set's post, beyond being an interesting read. The conclusion seemed to be that gun control would work if we got serious about it for a couple of centuries. That's hardly a solution to any problem we're facing today.

I was thinking the same thing OBill. His solution is that we should disarm law abiding citizens TODAY so that in 200 YEARS guns will no longer be needed. How about we focus on disarming criminals first.

Yea, lets start getting the guns out of criminal hands. Lets start by doing a better job at stopping this sort of thing.

Quote:

This nation is awash in firearms, and i can think of few arguments more stupid than that the dead were doomed because of gun control laws. I've seen firearms pulled from under the seat of a pick-up truck and sold in a back corner of a parking lot, with no paperwork, no background check--and that was not an isolated incident. People at gun shows sell firearms without paperwork and without background checks on a regular basis. Finding and buying guns on the street is a relatively simple affair.

source

But I doubt anything is going to get done in any event; so you all can rest easy.

Quote:

One senior Democrat, Rep. Charles Rangel (news, bio, voting record) of New York, said gun rights advocates are simply too influential to allow a tightening of gun control laws. "It's a regional thing, it's a cultural thing," Rangel said, arguing that even in areas where 85 percent of the people support more restrictions, the 15 percent minority is far more active and outspoken.

source

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revel wrote:

Quote:
This nation is awash in firearms, and i can think of few arguments more stupid than that the dead were doomed because of gun control laws. I've seen firearms pulled from under the seat of a pick-up truck and sold in a back corner of a parking lot, with no paperwork, no background check--and that was not an isolated incident. People at gun shows sell firearms without paperwork and without background checks on a regular basis. Finding and buying guns on the street is a relatively simple affair.

source

But I doubt anything is going to get done in any event; so you all can rest easy.

I've seen the parking lot deals too, and that fortifies my point. If anyone is suggesting this tragedy is the result of gun control, that person is an idiot. What it does demonstrate (so does your quote, btw); is the futility in gun control laws. I'll rest easy, regardless, despite not owning any guns myself.

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just watched the miami police chief being interviewed on MSNBC , who said : "there are simply too many guns out there ! ".
and another participant said : "yes , i agree , but NO party is going to touch the issue if they want to get elected - the NRA will make sure of that ! " .
hbg

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Good evening. So it is some 36 hours after 7:15 am 4/16/07, a date that for Virginia Tech (VT) will always be an equivalent, I think, to 9/11/01.

There was a press conference this evening (5:30 pm) and I have been listening to local radio stations. Here is some reporting that you may or not know about.

1) The AP reports that there have been several bomb threats today at other schools around the country.
2) Appearing at the press confence were Govenor Kaine and the head of the state police. The latter said it might take a couple more days to identify the victims
3) The guns (a 9 mm and a 22 mm) ) and ammo were purchased legally.
4) There is still an issue about what the police referred to as "another person of interest." A second person has, I hear, been interviewed and a second search warrant (besides the one on the shooter's residence) may be out there.
5) The Gov was asked about gun control by someone at the press conference. He seemed to get a bit irritated, saying that this is not the time to hop onto a "political hobbyhorse." I think that, had he not had a microphone in front of him, he might have said "fu*king" political hobbyhorse.
6) The Gov stated that he is assembling a committee of independent folks to prepare an after-action report on the response/conduct of VT's handling of the entire tragedy.
7) One of the shooter's English professors claims that she was troubled by some of his writings and, she says, she notified authorities. But writing, without any specific threat, is not against the law.
8) There was, indeed, and perhaps still is some criticism of VT for how they handled alerting people about the situation. But now I am hearing support from the VT community. And they are growing quite weary of the media in "this tiny town." They want to be left alone.
9) The news conference ended with this bizarre comment from a spokes person: "The rumor you are hearing about the parents (of the shooter) committing suicide is totally wrong"

I have used up all my notes, so I must be done.

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One thing , when his teacher put out a call for help from the authorities and the VT counselors, she was rebuffed. I think that police have got to rethink their missions from what they are now, which is merely the guys who show up and draw the chalk lines around the bodies , to a mission where interdiction and mental health skills play a role in id'ing and helping troubled people before hand.
Why do we need cops who say that they "cant do anything unless the party hurts themselves or someone else"? This is becoming insane. Is our nations safety gonna become a victim of a proscriptive Constitution?
AS someone said before"The bill of rights aint a suicide pact"

Notice, I didnt enter the fray about gun ownership in responsible hands, but what Im saying is that cops better soon figure out that , besides being uniformed "after the fact guys" what good are they? If I heard some local cop giving anyone this jeremiad like some dickless wonders , Id be screaming for the chief 's job

With this kid),
The chief of VT security said that "They assumed " the first shooter in the dorms had killed and split.

First off , we never assume anything down. We should always assume up. There IS one major flaw in the system that (even if the cops and counselors didnt take their jobs to heart) they should have gotten on this thing. I recall VT when it was still VPI and the campus security was then likened to a hatful of Barney Fifes . Apparently its gotten worse because I feel that they could have affected the outcome of this had they paid attention to their mission and not their donuts.

Also, accepting the gun culture mentality of the USA would mean that, perhaps the teachers should be trained in uses of tazers or firearms, or like some other U's , they get armed plainclothes cops (like Air Marshalls) trained and on staff , and populate the cop team with people who are able to think outside the box of possibilities.
This is almost the same as what we went through after 9/11 when we realized that the very scenarios our FBI and CIA guys were supposed to be thinking about, they werent doing.

I think that the VT endowment will be tapped by some HUUGE lawsuits before this one fades in our memories.
Mistakes were made.Big ones..

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JohnBoy, thanks for the news items.

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http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

Has anyone read this? Two plays written by the shooter. He was a frustrated writer.

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maporsche wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Merry Andrew wrote:

The whole problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are generally not enforced, not that they don't exist.

Which ones?

Which ones what? Did you even read the rest of my post?

Yes I read you post. The only part that I had a problem with was your statement that gun control laws are not enforced. I'm curious which laws you don't think are enforced, and can you provide any proof of that.

Now if your statement were, "The problem with gun control laws, as they exist today, is that they are not consistent from state to state." Then I wouldn't have a problem with what you said.

If gun control laws were being enforced, then there wouldn't be this massive inventory of illegal weapons out there, carried by people who have no legal right to possess said weapons. The laws are adequate; their enforcement is another matter.

I would not like to see gun controls laws be "consistent form state to state." We are becoming far too homogeneous a country as it is. Next we'll have Federal driver's licenses instead of state -issued ones (that project is in the works, btw, as you probably know). Each state has a unique situation. The stringent gun controls laws in effect in Massachusetts probably would be a burden in, say, New Mexico. The residents of a largely rural state have quite different needs -- and life-styles -- from those of a largely urban state. When you live in an apartment building in a city with a large and relatively well-trained police force, you hardly need to keep a .38 in your glove compartment. When you live in a ranch house in an area where your nearest neighbor is several miles distant, the state troopers and county law enforcement agencies are woefully under strength, and wild animals sometimes prey on your herds and flocks, you shouldn't have to go through miles of red tape to get a gun permit. That's why in New Mexico no permit is needed to purchase a firearm of any (legal) description.

A couple of years ago I was talking to a Captain of the NM Highway Patrol. Those troopers travel solo in their cruisers, with no partners. This Captain told me that if a trooper runs into a serious problem, it's quite possible that his nearest backup might be anywhere from 50 to 100 miles distant from the scene of the incident.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. Different laws for different states.

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I find this very disturbing although I can't verify the accuracy as I was only half listening to one of the cable news networks. Seems as though there is at least one other asian-american 23 year old student at VI and within hours of the shooting he received 80,000 hate/threatening emails. I'm kinda surprised he wasn't lynched.

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At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

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