Overly friendly neighbor...

Glitterbag, I may just call on you for those things to say. Whne my kids got home tonight my daughter said that the lights looked good but where were the lights on the top roof line. I told her that I wanted to do it by myself but it was too high for me to hang lights up there.

Roof line lights are what children are for. send your son up and stand at the bottom of the ladder wringing your hands with worry like a good mom.

I don't feel I overstated the consequences at all kicky and soz...but, that is my opinion.

As glitterbag said...nice guys (like kicky) can't think that someone they might know, who keeps talking about some women, is pissing at the moon.

It wouldn't surprise me that if he mentions marty to other men, it's in the context of thinking he really has a chance with her, and is making a lot of progress. "She's always accepting help from me, let's me cook for her, her kids love me. In fact, I'm almost like a surrogate dad, I'm doing things like asking her son to help me around the house (not Her house, practically Our house)

I don't know what stories glitterbag has to tell, but I'm sure they are hair raising, and all true.

Maybe I'm wrong, because as we all know, rapists are almost always complete strangers who only attack women with loose morals. There is seldom if ever a situation where one knows their rapist, or where their gut was telling them something was wrong, but ignored it because that wouldn't be nice.

That whole "date rape" thing where men convince themselves the women is really giving off the signals and No means Yes is just a crock. There's no way this guy could somehow be thinking that all these encounters has somehow constituted a relationship that will naturally evolve to the next step.

Funny, it seemed I may have struck some deep chord with marty, seeing as how she's mentioned the rape thing twice now....Almost like some deep place within her that sees the truth is not being supressed and floated to the surface for a moment.

Yeah Chai, what you said did hit me. I'll be more careful.

I think the extreme here could end in rape.

But a stop needs to be put to this guy, so that we never know how bad it can get.

I think Marty, being the nice person she is, needs to hear the worst consequences, so that she can find the strength to be blunt.

There are people with no boundaries.
People like that need to be shown the boundaries constantly.
No wavering, no tiny cracks of kindness.
Firm.

Marty, it takes practice to learn to establish boundaries, to be blunt, to put the needs of yourself and your family before the feelings of other people. It might seem mean, but, seriously, there are people out there that don't get it. Hitting them over the head by being blunt, doesn't even faze them. All you can do is be firm with the line you draw and state it over and over again, until they get bored and find some other easy target to bother.

And it gets easier, trust me, it just takes practice.
Stop yourself before you say anything. Run it through your head, be sure there are no words of apology, no self effacing.
Keep it simple. No. Practice in your head how you might react to something he says. Don't make excuses. Just say no, thank you. Don't say Maybe, or next time.

Avoiding him at the door is fine for now. But realize that you will have to face him. Open the door, show no fear, (look distracted or bored) Do not let him in, say you are busy, you have no time, do not promise him time later. Say no, thank you to whatever it is. Close door.

Practice, practice, practice!

(Chai, will you come out to play on other threads?)

Could is a lot different than probably. 'sall I'm sayin.

Carry on.

Whatever the bad end might or might not be, steps need to be taken so there is NO bad end.

If scaring Marty is what it takes to get her to prevent the bad end, then so be it.

s'all I'm sayin'

Did I mention Life is too short to be dealing with people that you'd rather not deal with?

What I didn't think of earlier was that Marty has a daughter. It is not crazy to wonder if his attention is to create trust in order to get closer to you or your daughter. My guess (if he is mentioning Marty to others) is that he has exaggerated his relationship and likely speaks as if Marty is the one always asking for help and expressing interest in him.

Please stop thinking of him as someone being helpful and start dealing with it as he is worming his way univited into your life. You can avoid his "helpfulness" with good humor and a firm decline. I think it would be smart not to insult him or appear angry, but if you keep a big smile on your face as you explain your insurance agent will drop you if you allow neighbors to work on your roof, or how recent warnings from your doctor make it impossible for you to eat things he brings over you can distance yourself with an excuse he will have a hard time arguing about.

Don't worry about being less than truthful, you are a woman living alone and you need to do everything possible to protect yourself and your children. Don't ever forget that men like your neighbor will take advantage of your "niceness" and use it in hopes they will wear you down.
Do you have an neighbors you can trust to talk about this? I don't mean lay the whole thing out like gossip, I'm thinking more like commenting that you never know when he will show up and ask if he is visiting other neighbors at odd hours as well. I'm betting you are not the first neighbor he has creeped out.

I agree.

I second.

Just read all the pages in this thread, so picked up some other details.

I hadn't read the actual post about him bringing over food, but when I did.....

You don't want this man around, he's bothering you, you find him creepy....


but you CALL HIM and thank him for food, telling him how good it was??????

YOU called him.

If this was a thread about how to get a certain man to notice you...that's exactly the advice I would have given...as in...

"wow marty, this guy must really like you to go out of his way to prepare you a plate for Thanksgiving, knowing you're all alone. That's way beyond just being a nice neighbor....I think you should call him and tell him how much you enjoyed the meal, that'll let him know you're interested too! Also, now you've got that plate to return. A perfect opportunity for you to see him again"

Someone said a while back you might be giving subliminal messages that you're interested. Subliminal? Hell You're calling him up to tell him what a swell, considerate guy he is.




Maybe I hit the nail on the head a while back, maybe I didn't. However, for all these pages everyone's been dancing around the issue, and you're too socialized with being "nice" to REALLY talk about what's up.

Ask yourself this, and be brutally honest with your answer....What exactly are you true feelings about this person?

You don't have to tell us, but you owe it to yourself to tell the truth to yourself.

Years back, I went for a year refusing to take a medication that I was told would help me. I had a reason, actually 2 reasons, but I wasn't about to tell anyone what they were, for fear of appearing ridiculous or crazy. My reasons were known only to me, but I felt that even the therapist I was seeing (regarding the same problem I needed the medication for) would inform me that I was being an utter dunce.
One day, I was ready I suppose for the question, and she asked me...What is it exactly that is keeping you from doing this?

I couldn't meet her eyes, looking off to the side, I blurted out exactly what my fears were, adding that I know it didn't make sense, but that's what my fears were.

Of course she didn't mock me. What she said was that what I had just admitted to being my feelings were indeed my feelings, and were valid because they were true to me.

She also said if I decided to take this medication, I would indeed be fearful at first....but I could be afraid and do something, or, be afraid and stay in my very unsatisfactory situation.

Sounds trite I know, but Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.



I'm really just musing here, but you've said several time now that this person is, you're sure "a perfectly nice man, just trying to be helpful" and other comments like that.

Could be be an obstacle you've constructed to avoid facing what your core concerns are?

I mean, how can you be blunt and "mean" and tell him to leave you alone when "he's perfectly nice and trying to be helpful"?

If I was a fly on the wall when these interactions are going on, would I see him as perfectly nice and helpful?

Or would I see someone who is using your hesitancy to appear rude as a way to further his schemes?

Would he appear perfectly nice to me, or more as someone sleazy?

Would he appear to be helpful to me, or as being pushy and or intrusive to my privacy?

I know you divorced from a difficult situation. Honestly, I don't know the details. But I do know one thing, because I've lived through it myself. A controlling spouse will try to make you feel that you don't even know your own mind, even if you've always known prior to meeting him what is right or wrong for you. The abusive/controlling person will work away at you until you're compliant, because it's the only way to get through the day. You are no longer able to ascertain when something is off, because you've been told you can't trust your judgement.

Your repeating over and over that he's trying to be helpful and nice, etc.....the way he wants to appear to you.....are you trying to believe those surface things are the truth, because you don't believe you can trust your own judgement?

All of the advice you've gotten has essentially been the same. Perhaps you feel like it would be permissable for anyone else to make their feelings known, but not for you, since you know you can't trust your own judgement.

Maybe you feel like you need permission to be someone who can get this jerk away from you.

Marty, you have my permission.

OMG, I didn't think of that!

Chai,

Wow, that was very insightful. When I began reading your post I thought you were implying that deep down inside that I crave the affection of this person.(yuck) I have absolutely no interest in him.

So, in asking myself what the underlying issue is, my answer would be exactly what you suggested. I don't trust my own judgment. That is very true. I fear that I can't take care of my house by myself. Helping my son with his homework is exhausting, I work on-call hours one night a week and then my daughter feels that she's not getting enough attention because of my focus on my son, laundry............

I think this is true. It's also quite possible he think old Martybarker is playing hard to get. Kind of like testing his determination.

The more I've read here, the more confounded I've become. I think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Personally, I don't think rape or anything insidious is on this guy's mind. He could just be a meddlesome neighbour or someone who interacts with other women in the neighbourhood to get away from his wife. It could be as simple as that. Or he could have a thing for her? Who knows?! The point is, somehow...

Somehow, an annoying neighbour has turned into a nefarious ne-er-do-well with evil intent. Good Lord.

Come on, let's get back to reality.

Marty, simply said, you're going to have to say something if you find his attentions (be they innocent, nefarious or just hopeful on his part) annoying. And that goes for ANYbody you find annoying, not just your neighbour. (And that goes for ALL of us, not just you.)

Being aware, vigilant, even is one thing; being paranoid is quite another!
And that's that.

Marty,
Chai has made some insightful comments that I hope you take into consideration. When I was growing up, my Dad and Grandfather were men I could count on, so I admit I thought all men were like them.
Being married to my first husband I learned what it was to be an abused woman and I can assure you it started slow, abusers always start slow, that's the best way to eat away at your self-esteem and get you to a point where you don't trust your own instincts.
I know what it took to convince me that I needed to get away from this man and I count my lucky stars that I left before he killed me. Now you have made the first step, you have gotten away from an unhappy union. But opportunists are always around, and I remember what it was like when word got around that I was separated. I went from being a respectable married woman treated with respect by others to the target of outrageous propositions from some of the most unlikely people you could image. One trusted old co-worker, married with 4 children, called me up out of the blue and asked me to go to lunch with him (destination Rock Creek Park) because (and I quote) he was in the mood for a pretty girl on a blanket. Not only was this creepy, it was insulting. We hadn't worked in the same office for over 5 years and I never ran into him, I just remembered he would talk about his children and his church. Why he thought it was ok to call (on the secure line at work no less) I can't imagine. But the message I got was that it was hunting season on me.
You need to turn this guy away whenever he stops by, you can say you have a headache, you have to take the kids to the store (and don't accept a ride from him), you're working on your Master's and can't be disturbed, I learned quickly to just offer excuses about how I couldn't accept the invitation or food or whatever with whatever popped into my head. Once I told a man who keep dropping by unannounced that I was busy packing to leave for a TDY to Germany and would be gone for 4 months. This man had treated me in the ER for a migraine and when he said he was going to give me a shot I asked him to give me something that wouldn't completely knock me out because I had a 2 year old at home. He said, can't your husband take care of him and I said no, we were separated. Unbelievably, this jerk got my address and phone number from the ER forms and started to appear at my house. Apparently he thought he had hit pay dirt. I'm pretty sure he was married even though he proclaimed to be single. The other fellow I mentioned earlier (the deacon with 4 kids and a yen for Rock Creek) caught me early in the newness of going thru a divorce so all I managed to say was "Thanks, but I have to wash my hair at lunchtime....been really hectic around here". Did it sound stupid, oh yeah but he never called again and I hope he never tried to exploit another young woman's personal situation like it was a windfall for him.
Most men would never dream of doing such things, but when you are a "divorced woman" you hear from all the ones who would. I think it would be good for your son and daughter to see you handle this guy before he handles you. Don't worry about his ego and don't let him in the house again. I'm particulary concerned that he has been in your house while the contractor is there. I assume you were at work, and if you were at work, you have no idea what he could have been doing with your personal information while you are gone.
My son told me he had learned that a guy who sometimes showed up at parties and events my son and his friends attended had helped another man install hidden cameras in the bathrooms and bedrooms of his house. This man is in his early 30's, married with 5 kids. My son said the guy always made his skin crawl but he just usually avoided him and they were not friends who spent any time together. My son heard the story first hand from the slime-ball, who apparently thought it was a story that other men would admire. My son was temporarily speechless because of the outrageousness of the story he had just been told, but when the creep asked "what do you think about that" he responded "Dude, you are f....ed up". A lot of people learned that night that they should never accept an invitation to either one of the guys homes.
I have gone on too long and am sorry about that, but please don't allow this man to continue to drop in or do anything for you. I don't see anything good coming out of this. You already said your daughter resents the demands on your time, don't waste one more minute on this man or his feelings. I know you know your family comes first, so stiffen your spine and don't feel any sorrow about sending this guy packing back to his yard. Trust me on this one, it's hard the first time or two, but it gets easier and easier to avoid doing things you don't want to do for people you really don't need to worry about.

Whew!!! Somebody please stuff a sock in my mouth, I can't stop talking. Again, apologies for being so long winded.

Hello Chai,
"Ask and ye shall receive", many thanks, I'm Irish and many times we cannot shut up.

Yes, I agree that I need to stand up on my own and deal with my own issues rather than accepting help from him.