2
   

ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 12:44 pm
I am not the only one who has brought up the contention that this is an immigration issue, and not a language issue. I'm not the first one who brought it up, either. Yes, i am convinced that you are angry--your remark in which you assume that people come here expecting not to need to learn English confirms that belief on my part. Your silly and pathetic attempt to slam Walter notwithstanding, i have no good reason to believe that people come here as immigrants, legal or illegal, intending not to learn English.

Mr. Moore is not someone who means anything to me. I've never seen any of his motion pictures, and i don't intend to increase his already considerable wealth with any money of mine.

As others have pointed out, this is a veiled immigration issue, and the point is that lily-whites feel threatened by the brown-skinned speakers of other languages who come here.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 12:49 pm
You are more a glutton for punishment that I am, McG Smile

Just for purposes of clarification, I will not respond to those who can't articulate a rational argument without drawing unsubstantiated inferences about my character, opinion, or intent or that of other members. I figure they're just trying to derail the thread anyway.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 12:49 pm
Setanta wrote:
I am not the only one who has brought up the contention that this is an immigration issue, and not a language issue. I'm not the first one who brought it up, either. Yes, i am convinced that you are angry--your remark in which you assume that people come here expecting not to need to learn English confirms that belief on my part. Your silly and pathetic attempt to slam Walter notwithstanding, i have no good reason to believe that people come here as immigrants, legal or illegal, intending not to learn English.

Mr. Moore is not someone who means anything to me. I've never seen any of his motion pictures, and i don't intend to increase his already considerable wealth with any money of mine.

As others have pointed out, this is a veiled immigration issue, and the point is that lily-whites feel threatened by the brown-skinned speakers of other languages who come here.


Then we merely have a difference of opinion. Imagine that.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 12:50 pm
After reading the written efforts of some of todays students, I'm not so sure that the English language will survive in any case. Supposedly good students seem unable to write a simple declarative sentence that is grammatical and without spelling errors. If our students are unable read and write their native tongue, think of how confused they must be when dealing with Spanish speakers. To compound the problem I wouldn't be much surprised if todays Spanish students aren't just as illiterate as those who've live in the suburbs.

The country would do well to encourage our students to become multilingual; we live in a multilingual/multicultural world. While English is the Lingua Franca of the 21st century, our ever closer ties with the rest of the world makes knowledge of a second, or even third language, a definite asset. I would encourage todays students to not only become better at English, but to learn Spanish and Mandarin as well. In the Western Hemisphere we are in constant contact with Spanish, and written Chinese is the key to communicating with the largest single ethnic group of our species. Those who are able to communicate outside English will have a definite advantage in the future.

On the other hand, not to be fully literate in English, even if you live in some an insular cultural group is to be handicapped in the modern world. Without English even the brightest and most promising student will never have full access to the world's information and opportunity. Projects to enhance English as a Second Language are doing great work, and deserve our support. It is a shame that our own children are so illiterate in their own language, and that most of them are hopeless with ANY other language.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 12:59 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The issue is whether people who are going to live here semi-permanently or permanently should be expected to know enough English to function competently in a predominantly in a country where English is the predominant language.


I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread.


Foxfyre named this thread:
Quote:
ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:01 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The issue is whether people who are going to live here semi-permanently or permanently should be expected to know enough English to function competently in a predominantly in a country where English is the predominant language.


I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread.


Foxfyre named this thread:
Quote:
ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?


Di you read through the thread before posting or just the title?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:02 pm
Asherman wrote:
After reading the written efforts of some of todays students, I'm not so sure that the English language will survive in any case. Supposedly good students seem unable to write a simple declarative sentence that is grammatical and without spelling errors. If our students are unable read and write their native tongue, think of how confused they must be when dealing with Spanish speakers. To compound the problem I wouldn't be much surprised if todays Spanish students aren't just as illiterate as those who've live in the suburbs.

The country would do well to encourage our students to become multilingual; we live in a multilingual/multicultural world. While English is the Lingua Franca of the 21st century, our ever closer ties with the rest of the world makes knowledge of a second, or even third language, a definite asset. I would encourage todays students to not only become better at English, but to learn Spanish and Mandarin as well. In the Western Hemisphere we are in constant contact with Spanish, and written Chinese is the key to communicating with the largest single ethnic group of our species. Those who are able to communicate outside English will have a definite advantage in the future.

On the other hand, not to be fully literate in English, even if you live in some an insular cultural group is to be handicapped in the modern world. Without English even the brightest and most promising student will never have full access to the world's information and opportunity. Projects to enhance English as a Second Language are doing great work, and deserve our support. It is a shame that our own children are so illiterate in their own language, and that most of them are hopeless with ANY other language.


Hi Ash, and welcome to the thread. I couldn't agree more after looking at hundreds of applications completed by students insufficiently literate to competently fill out a relatively simply form.

I have great appreciation for people who can speak in multiple languages and one of my life regrets is that I did not become fluent in at least one other language. Of course I still could if I was sufficiently motivated to make the effort.

But there is no doubt about it. In our part of the country, just about everybody knows at least a little Spanish which is the predominant second language here and non-English speakers can usually get by. But they sure have a hard time getting ahead without a proficiency in English. I personally think it is criminal not to immerse the children in English and motivate and require them to become proficient, but that no longer seems to be the case, at least in New Mexico.

I recently had business dealings with a newly arrived Asian immigrant who was just starting on English education. She carried a sophisticated electronic translator and to communicate, I wrote down the English word or phrase and she punched it into the translator and then sometimes spoke the answer and sometimes just showed me the translator. She listened intently. As I was leaving, she was practicing the 'new' English words. She'll make it just fine. Smile
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:03 pm
Do you suggest that Walter is not allowed to comment on the titular subject? Even Fox's subsequent attempt to redefine the topic is disingenuous, as making English the "official" language would not ensure that everyone here speaks English, or even needs to do so.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:07 pm
Fox's remarks about Nuevo Mexico are hilarious . . . Spanish has been spoken there for far longer than has English . . .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:07 pm
Asherman wrote:

On the other hand, not to be fully literate in English, even if you live in some an insular cultural group is to be handicapped in the modern world.


Well, I think, if most reach the level of knowledge some native speakers show here, it would be more than enough.

I had only 10 years of English at school .nowadays you learn it here at least 14 years.
But even after that time, I sincerely doubt that a non-native English speaker can become fully literate in that (or any other) language, just by learning at school, I mean.

And not all are lucky enough - either by distance, mostly, however, by lacl of money - to stay weeks or months in England or the USA.

Back to the 'official language' ...

I di, McGentrix.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:10 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The issue is whether people who are going to live here semi-permanently or permanently should be expected to know enough English to function competently in a predominantly in a country where English is the predominant language.


I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread.


Foxfyre named this thread:
Quote:
ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?


Di you read through the thread before posting or just the title?


He obviously didn't read the opening post. I don't think Walter did either.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:12 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't think Walter did either.


Think what you want. That was my last response heree - and to you.

Thomas wrote:


Some points that struck my mind on first reading.

1) The constitutional foundation looks very shaky.

Quote:
To declare English as the official language of the United States, to establish a uniform English language rule for naturalization, and to avoid misconstructions of the English language texts of the laws of the United States, pursuant to Congress's powers to provide for the general welfare of the United States and to establish a uniform rule of naturalization under article I, section 8, of the Constitution.

The part about naturalization is fair, and the sections making an English test mandatory for immigrants seems constitutional on the face of it. But the constitution does not grant Congress the power to provide for the general welfare in any way it wishes. It only grants it the power to tax and spend for the general welfare.

2) The bill has little to do with McGentrix's gripe that you have to "dial 1 for English". It only binds the government, while most institutions who put you in waiting loops are private businesses.

3) The bill contains an exception for "requirements under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act;" and it shall not be construed to, among other things, "limit the preservation or use of Native Alaskan or Native American languages (as defined in the Native American Languages Act);" So Set's point about American Sign Language is pertinent: while the spirit of those exceptions would apply to it, the letter of the bill currently doesn't.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:12 pm
Setanta wrote:
Do you suggest that Walter is not allowed to comment on the titular subject? Even Fox's subsequent attempt to redefine the topic is disingenuous, as making English the "official" language would not ensure that everyone here speaks English, or even needs to do so.


Why would I make such a suggestion?

Walter said "I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread. " and then quoted the thread title. It made me wonder if he just read the thread title without reading any of the posts so I asked him about it.

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to post inquires to other posters on A2K? Should I have asked you for permission first?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:15 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The issue is whether people who are going to live here semi-permanently or permanently should be expected to know enough English to function competently in a predominantly in a country where English is the predominant language.


I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread.


Foxfyre named this thread:
Quote:
ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?


Di you read through the thread before posting or just the title?


He obviously didn't read the opening post. I don't think Walter did either.


Just something to clarify: I don't have a split personality although two names might suggest this to one or another. (But Walter is my Christian name and Hinteler my family name.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:17 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Do you suggest that Walter is not allowed to comment on the titular subject? Even Fox's subsequent attempt to redefine the topic is disingenuous, as making English the "official" language would not ensure that everyone here speaks English, or even needs to do so.


Why would I make such a suggestion?

Walter said "I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread. " and then quoted the thread title. It made me wonder if he just read the thread title without reading any of the posts so I asked him about it.

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to post inquires to other posters on A2K? Should I have asked you for permission first?


Not at all--it just seemed that you had been appointed thread hall monitor, and i hadn't gotten the memo. I should have known that it was just the latest example of your obsessive contempt for Walter.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:18 pm
Walter, as usualy, Fox can't keep events straight. She was unaware, apparently, that McWhitey was sneering at you, rather than at me.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:22 pm
Setanta wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Do you suggest that Walter is not allowed to comment on the titular subject? Even Fox's subsequent attempt to redefine the topic is disingenuous, as making English the "official" language would not ensure that everyone here speaks English, or even needs to do so.


Why would I make such a suggestion?

Walter said "I didn't know that. Sorry that I misunderstood this thread. " and then quoted the thread title. It made me wonder if he just read the thread title without reading any of the posts so I asked him about it.

Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to post inquires to other posters on A2K? Should I have asked you for permission first?


Not at all--it just seemed that you had been appointed thread hall monitor, and i hadn't gotten the memo. I should have known that it was just the latest example of your obsessive contempt for Walter.


Oh nonsense. I have no contempt for Walter. I find his point of view interesting, just as I do yours.

BTW, it's generally good practice to capitalize "I". Especially when you are going to criticize others for grammatical/spelling errors.

I make plenty of spelling errors myself, so far be it for me to point that out, just wanted you to be aware of it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:27 pm
Other than habitually capitalizing the first word of sentences, i don't feel the need to capitalize "i" when it functions as the first person singular pronoun. As for pointing to errors, as i make them all the time, and know it, it doesn't bother me that others point out my errors. I do enjoy jabbing others with it, though, as it so often gets under their skin.

You have most definitely shown an obsession about jumping on Walter, even giving him a special sneering title which you reserve exclusively to address him.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:28 pm
Setanta wrote:
Walter, as usualy, Fox can't keep events straight. She was unaware, apparently, that McWhitey was sneering at you, rather than at me.


Well, in that case ... I've highlightened all names in that quote, for easier access:


http://i5.tinypic.com/14avqya.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jun, 2006 01:28 pm
Setanta wrote:
Other than habitually capitalizing the first word of sentences, i don't feel the need to capitalize "i" when it functions as the first person singular pronoun. As for pointing errors, as i make them all the time, and know it, it doesn't bother me that others point out my errors. I do enjoy jabbing others with it, though, as it so often gets under their skin.

You have most definitely shown an obsession about jumping on Walter, even giving him a special sneering title which you reserve exclusively to address him.


As you have done with me? Does that mean you are obsessed with me?
0 Replies
 
 

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