Philidelphia Daily News wrote:Vento, 66, said that the sign had been up for six months without complaint until recently and that it simply spoke to the notion that people who choose to live in this country should endeavor to speak English. He has made a point of saying he had never denied anyone service regardless of language.
Then what's the point of the sign?
Kind of urban legend, Wolf.
I find the entire bruhaha hilarious, because i cannot conceive of anyone approaching the counter, and expecting to be understood while placing an order in any language other than English. It is, of course, possible--i consider it highly improbable though. I suspect this joker is a putz, but so is the joker who is going after him for it.
I've followed the story in the Philidelphia Daily News: espcially friends of his family reminded Vento how (he and) his father and mother would have gone along if such signs had been in their neighbourhood.
He got a lot of disagreement from the Italian community.
Quote:"It depends on what his response is," Allen said.
He should respond in Swahili.
I think it is ironic that those who most distrusts government and who fight to get or keep government out of every day affairs show no reluctance whatever to using government as an instument of social engineering, social oppression, provided it is applied to Hispanics, not members of the privledged protestant Anglo-Saxons.
Walter Hinteler wrote:I think it is ironic that those who most distrusts government and who fight to get or keep government out of every day affairs show no reluctance whatever to using government as an instument of social engineering, social oppression, provided it is applied to Hispanics, not members of the privledged protestant Anglo-Saxons.
Don't forget the french Walt. Or the germans, hungarians, russians, polish, swiss, japanese, koreans, thais, hindis, arabs, jews, or anyone else that chooses not to speak english.
That ought not to surprise you at this late date, Walter. Many on the right decry "judicial activism," until it coincides with their political agenda. They holler about tax-and-spend liberals, but see no problem with bankrupting the future of their children and grandchildren in aid of the programs--especially "defense"--which they favor.
Why should that particular instance of hypocricy surprise you?
ebrown_p wrote:The question of course is what the "official language" means. I think the whole thing is silly since immigrants have always assimilated and learned English just fine. Is this anything more than foolish election year pandering to the extreme right, or will this have practical applications.
If this means that people need to go to court and face charges with the disadvantage of having a court appointed lawyer who doesn't speak their first language... or if they need to defend themselves without the help of a translator-- that is unconstitutional and won't fly.
If this means that government will interfere with private sector business who want to offer Spanish to their customers or advertise in their native languate... government interference in private business won't fly either.
I do support the move to not translate voting ballots though. Since you don't need to know much English to vote it is not a 14th amendment issue at all.
We only have a Constitutional responsibility to teach Spanish-speaking voters and other immigrants the one word they need to know to make their voice heard...
"Democrat".
When my directory assistance and other public services accessed by phone say, "Press 1 for English," in the US, mind you, it's time to make English the official language. This is but one example of the failure of much of the Spanish speaking population to be assimilated these days. I am not asking for them to forget their own culture, but they should learn the local language.
Foxfyre wrote:From the Philidelphia Daily News, if this gets wide circulation, I would think it will certainly provide fodder for the "English only" campaign. When a private business is not allowed to insist that business be conducted in English, this could definitely stir up some new interest in a law making English the official language and defending English only policies.
Maybe it will, but for the most part it looks like a First Amendment issue to me. I think there's a fairly straightforward case that the government is messing with a business's speech here. This is especially objectionable because the intent of the messing is to suppress unwelcome political speech. By contrast, I don't see what this has to do with a proposed amendment that would only the federal government, and only in its official conduct.
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:Wasn't German considered to be a good candidate for the US' Official language early on in the country's conception? I can't imagine what would have happened if they had decided it was German back then.
Alas, this is an urban legend.
Snopes.com has the details
Actually, most of you seem to have a confused picture of what an "official language" is - besides that many of you indeed have never to been to any foreign country.
'Official language' just means the languages, in which the constituion and laws are FIRST officially published - it says nothing about minority languages (indeed, countries with official languages are the best promoters for those languages) and what languages are used privately or in business.
I have no problem with ethnic groups speaking their mother tongue in private social settings. I DO have a problem with any language other than English being the official language.
Various immigrant groups came to the US over the last few centuries. They were obliged to learn English as a way of mainstreaming into society, and getting ahead vocationally. The vast majority did, and within a generation or two, had integrated well into the larger society. Often, at home, the mother tongue was still spoken, but out in the business world, English was the language that was predominantly spoken.
IMO, this focus on dual languages does not help, but simply hurts the Hispanic immigrant. By not having the necessity of learning English, he is doomed to remain on the lower rungs of society. If the first generation immigrant does not learn English, it is not passed on to the coming generations. So what you have, are a group of people who are perpetual newcomers.
This just gets more and more hilarious. In a store in which i once (briefly) worked, the store manager became angry because some of the customers were speaking Spanish to one another while in the store. They spoke English to us, so that was not a problem, but she was angry because they were speaking Spanish to one another. She had just returned from a vacation to Mexico. So i asked her if she spoke Spanish the entire time she was there--she was pulled up short for a moment, and then contended that she spoke Spanish whenever she spoke to a Mexican. So, i asked her if she and her husband had spoken Spanish to one another while in public in Mexico, as she was now insisting that these people speak English to one another--then, i asked why, is she were sufficiently competent in Spanish to have spoken Spanish whenever she spoke to a Mexican, she were bothered by these people speaking Spanish to one another. She threatened me with my job, and left the room. A few days later, she and an assistant manager were making racist comments after the store had closed one day, so i reported them to the NAACP--i was transferred to another store, in a predominantly black neighborhood.
McGentrix wrote:Don't forget the french Walt. Or the germans, hungarians, russians, polish, swiss, japanese, koreans, thais, hindis, arabs, jews, or anyone else that chooses not to speak english.
If you ever come to New York city -- you live in upstate New York, right? -- I recommend a visit to Ellis Island. You will find lots of temporary pamphlets from the early 1900s. Their authors claim that Italians, Russians, and East European Jews will never assimilate, that their offspring will never speak English, and that there's just no way to integrate them into American society.
Are Italians who don't speak English any problem at all today? Have they needed an amendment to enforce the use of English?
Phoenix32890 wrote: If the first generation immigrant does not learn English, it is not passed on to the coming generations.
Untrue. This is exactly what happened to the earlier waves of immigrants. Contrary to what you assert, nobody "obliged them to learn English as a way of mainstreaming into the larger society". Many first-generation immigrants never learned English. And they were pretty happy to speak their mother tongue in their local, native neighborhood.
Phoenix32890 wrote:Quote:If you ever come to New York city -- you live in upstate New York, right? -- I recommend a visit to Ellis Island. You will find lots of temporary pamphlets from the early 1900s. Their authors claim that Italians, Russians, and East European Jews will never assimilate, that their offspring will never speak English, and that there's just no way to integrate them into American society.
Thomas- That is exactly my point. One of the reasons that these groups got ahead, was because they were obliged to learn English.
No they were not. Who do you think obliged them?
Thomas wrote:McGentrix wrote:Don't forget the french Walt. Or the germans, hungarians, russians, polish, swiss, japanese, koreans, thais, hindis, arabs, jews, or anyone else that chooses not to speak english.
If you ever come to New York city -- you live in upstate New York, right? -- I recommend a visit to Ellis Island. You will find lots of temporary pamphlets from the early 1900s. Their authors claim that Italians, Russians, and East European Jews will never assimilate, that their offspring will never speak English, and that there's just no way to integrate them into American society.
Are Italians who don't speak English any problem at all today? Have they needed an amendment to enforce the use of English?
My wife's grandfather came through Ellis Island from Poland. He didn't speak a bit of english. They settled in New York Mills and worked in the textile mills for a living. He made sure that his children learned English so they would be able to make better lives for themselves. Her mom speaks fluent Polish and English, My wife speaks very little Polish.
They had no problems understanding the need to be American and what that meant. They didn't want to be Polish Americans, just Americans.
