ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?

JLNobody wrote:

Set, what we are seeing are the pangs of culture change, a feature of virtually all societies.
That I understand and accept, but your changes of mind....(???)

No hurry, we have all the time in the world to discuss terms . . . am i fickle? You betcha ! ! !

0 Replies

Twice you have said this same crap in this thread.

Setanta wrote:

I consider this entire thread to be just another example of Fox's immigrant paranoia, in which she once again attempts to present her hysteria as a plausible concern with which all right-thinking citizens ought to be concerned.
...
These people are brown-skinned speakers of a foreign language. That scares the bejesus out of the rightwingnuts. Walter was absolutely correct--they represent a threat to a once-dominant Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture.
. . .

I am just opposed to French (white christians), Germans (white christians), Dutch (white christians), Italians (brownish christians), Greeks (white christians), Poles (white christians), Russians (white christians), etc coming to America and expecting people and the government to bend over backwards and accomodate their home cultures as I am Mexicans or people from central America.

Your continued attempt to paint this as a racist issue is stupid. It's not.

0 Replies

McGentrix wrote:

I am just opposed to French (white christians), Germans (white christians), Dutch (white christians), Italians (brownish christians), Greeks (white christians), Poles (white christians), Russians (white christians), etc coming to America and expecting people and the government to bend over backwards and accomodate their home cultures as I am Mexicans or people from central America.

Your continued attempt to paint this as a racist issue is stupid. It's not.

I'd always though, French and Greek were as brownish as the Italians.

But they might have changed skin colour as well when crossing the ocean ...

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'm still knocked over by this:

Phoenix32890 wrote:
I look at this whole issue a little differently than most. I think that the people who push bi-lingual education, are insuring the continuance of a large group of static, unskilled workers.

Even our really conservative state minister of education in a really conservative-liberalist government is heavily supporting bi-lingual education.

And just look how that's working out. From the OECD report I linked earlier:

Quote:

"Germany is the country with the largest disparity" between first and second generation immigrants, the report says. "Second-generation students lag behind their native peers by 93 score points, which is equivalent to one and a half proficiency levels. This is particularly disconcerting, as these students have spent their entire school career in Germany."

0 Replies

I rather suspect that Italians would not appreciate being described as brown. Stand one next to a Mexican and say that.

My remarks were not made in response to your typical drivel, but since you invite the comment, i think you're lying. I do not for a moment believe that you are motivated by anything other than the motivation which has all the rightwingnuts up in arms--brown-skinned people who are not native-speakers of English.

Put a Greek, or an Italian, or a Russian, or a Dutchman on the street in ordinary attire, and you can't tell by looking that they are not native to this country. That is also true of Hispanics, but for far to many of the rightwing hate-mongers, the mere fact of brown skin condemns them in advance.

I have no corner on stupidity, which you demonstrate every time you post.

0 Replies

SierraSong wrote:

And just look how that's working out. From the OECD report I linked earlier ...

And you are now agumenting with that pro or contra an official language?

(Besides that I don't understand the combination of those quotes: immigartion has nothing to do bi-lingual education, or little: citizen's from 24 EU-member countries can settle here without being regarded as immigrants at all - and 'yes', Thomas and I gave some examples about Americans living here and their language skills.)

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I am just opposed to French (white christians), Germans (white christians), Dutch (white christians), Italians (brownish christians), Greeks (white christians), Poles (white christians), Russians (white christians), etc coming to America and expecting people and the government to bend over backwards and accomodate their home cultures as I am Mexicans or people from central America.

Your continued attempt to paint this as a racist issue is stupid. It's not.

I'd always though, French and Greek were as brownish as the Italians.

But they might have changed skin colour as well when crossing the ocean ...

Thanks for adding that Capt. Exception.

I realize you can find an exception for everything anyone says, you have proven that far too often. How about stop trying to change the subject with the exceptions and try to stay with the main point?

0 Replies

Quote:

ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?

I've tried that a couple of times ...

0 Replies

Well, among my Italian and Mexican shirttail relatives are dark skinned and light skinned people, brown eyed and blueish/greyish eyed people, and brunettes and redheads--no real blondes I don't think except on purpose.

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

I rather suspect that Italians would not appreciate being described as brown. Stand one next to a Mexican and say that.

How about we stand one next to an albino and say that?

Quote:

My remarks were not made in response to your typical drivel, but since you invite the comment, i think you're lying. I do not for a moment believe that you are motivated by anything other than the motivation which has all the rightwingnuts up in arms--brown-skinned people who are not native-speakers of English.

You can believe horseshit smells like roses for all I care, doesn't change the fact you are simply wrong.

Quote:

Put a Greek, or an Italian, or a Russian, or a Dutchman on the street in ordinary attire, and you can't tell by looking that they are not native to this country. That is also true of Hispanics, but for far to many of the rightwing hate-mongers, the mere fact of brown skin condemns them in advance.

What does this have to do with making English the offical language other than proving you aren't getting the point?

Of course they look like Americans. That what America is, a big melting pot of people from all over the world. But, when they go to vote, or fill out insurance information, or ask 911 for help, the should probably know some English, as that will soon be the official language.

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

SierraSong wrote:
And just look how that's working out. From the OECD report I linked earlier ...

And you are now agumenting with that pro or contra an official language?

(Besides that I don't understand the combination of those quotes: immigartion has nothing to do bi-lingual education, or little: citizen's from 24 EU-member countries can settle here without being regarded as immigrants at all - and 'yes', Thomas and I gave some examples about Americans living here and their language skills.)

I like the idea of an official language.

I agree with Phoenix that for optimum success, school children should be taught in the language of their adopted country.

I agree with your Minister of Education who said:

... that immigrant children need more help learning the German language. "We have to provide children all over the country with a chance to improve their German knowledge even before school so they have equal access to a decent education," she said.

0 Replies

McGentrix wrote:

or ask 911 for help

That is an interesting detail. If other countries with official languages would do the same ... at least some Americans couldn't travel without an interpreter.

And exactly this is why I say, you don't understand what "official language" means. Not all, as proved now.

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
or ask 911 for help

That is an interesting detail. If other countries with official languages would do the same ... at least some Americans couldn't travel without an interpreter.

And exactly this is why I say, you don't understand what "official language" means. Not all, as proved now.

Yeah? Think we have a lot of Bulgarian 911 operators in Syracuse?

0 Replies

McGentrix wrote:

But, when they go to vote, or fill out insurance information, or ask 911 for help, the should probably know some English, as that will soon be the official language.

What is your basis for making such a statement, McWhitey? You know for a fact that English will soon be "the official language?" That might affect their ability to vote, but i guarantee you that insurance companies doing business in areas with large Spanish-speaking populations are going to offer their services in Spanish--they're chasing a buck and it just makes good sense. I also strongly suspect that 911 operators in areas with large Spanish-speaking populations will speak Spanish, or have a Spanish-speaker available as well.

I'm sure they do it just to piss you off, too, McWhitey.

0 Replies

SierraSong wrote:

I agree with your Minister of Education who said:...

Well, not sure if you really refer to "MY" Minister of Education (Barbara Sommer)*, but she said."Um die sprachliche und kulturelle Handlungsfähigkeit der Schülerinnen und Schüler über die muttersprachlich geprägte Welt hinaus zu erweitern, ist es von besonderer Bedeutung, dass die Lernenden möglichst früh eine zweite Sprache lernen. Und das ist hier in NRW jetzt ab dem Kindergarten möglich."

Which translates to something like:"To expand the linguistic and cultural capacity to act for pupils beyond the mothertongue coined worldview, it is of special importance to learn as early as possible a second language. And this is now possible here in Northrhine-Westphalia from the Kindergarden onwards."

*Schools and universities are state's affairs, and the Federal government has nothing to do with it .... but tries hard to get in this business since 50 years :wink:

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
But, when they go to vote, or fill out insurance information, or ask 911 for help, the should probably know some English, as that will soon be the official language.

What is your basis for making such a statement, McWhitey? You know for a fact that English will soon be "the official language?" That might affect their ability to vote, but i guarantee you that insurance companies doing business in areas with large Spanish-speaking populations are going to offer their services in Spanish--they're chasing a buck and it just makes good sense. I also strongly suspect that 911 operators in areas with large Spanish-speaking populations will speak Spanish, or have a Spanish-speaker available as well.

I'm sure they do it just to piss you off, too, McWhitey.

Why would it piss me off?

You seem to think I am opposed to people in America speaking other languages. I'm not. I am opposed to the government wasting millions of dollars creating forms and doing paperwork in multiple languages. I am opposed to People coming to America and expecting to be able to not the language enough to get by. I visited Mexico for a week and taught myself enough spanish to get by. [phonetically] donde el banyo?[/phonetically]

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

SierraSong wrote:
I agree with your Minister of Education who said:...

Well, not sure if you really refer to "MY" Minister of Education (Barbara Sommer)*, but she said."Um die sprachliche und kulturelle Handlungsfähigkeit der Schülerinnen und Schüler über die muttersprachlich geprägte Welt hinaus zu erweitern, ist es von besonderer Bedeutung, dass die Lernenden möglichst früh eine zweite Sprache lernen. Und das ist hier in NRW jetzt ab dem Kindergarten möglich."

Which translates to something like:"To expand the linguistic and cultural capacity to act for pupils beyond the mothertongue coined worldview, it is of special importance to learn as early as possible a second language. And this is now possible here in Northrhine-Westphalia from the Kindergarden onwards."

*Schools and universities are state's affairs, and the Federal government has nothing to do with it .... but tries hard to get in this business since 50 years :wink:

Walter, you seem to be confusing the value of learning a second language--a good thing--with a MANDATE that U.S. schools teach students in their first language and these same students are not required to learn and use English. At least some of us see that as a bad thing for those kids. It also handicaps adults who are not required to learn the predominant language of the country.

Nobody here is even remotely suggesting that learning other languages is not a good thing or should not be encouraged, even mandated in certain circumstances.

The issue is whether people who are going to live here semi-permanently or permanently should be expected to know enough English to function competently in a predominantly in a country where English is the predominant language. I expect I would find living in Germany to be much more difficult, and far less opportunities would be open to me, if I did not know at least some German.

0 Replies

What the hell is " . . . and expecting to be able to not the language enough to get by."--supposed to mean? What the hell is donde el banyo supposed to mean? You seem to be challenged by verbs. I've never made any effort to learn Spanish, and i know enough to put esta after donde when asking for directions.

Your anger and hatred show through in your assumption that people come here expecting that they do not need to know how to speak English. People come here for the simplest of economic reasons. Every immigrant i've ever known, legal or not, has done their damnest to learn English, because it works to their economic advantage.

Once again, this is a non-issue raised by rightwingnuts who hate brown-skinned speakers of other languages, who they see as a threat to their lily-white world.

0 Replies

Quote:

Walter, you seem to be confusing the value of learning a second language--a good thing--with a MANDATE that U.S. schools teach students in their first language and these same students are not required to learn and use English. At least some of us see that as a bad thing for those kids. It also handicaps adults who are not required to learn the predominant language of the country.

Who is talking about a "MANDATE that U.S. schools teach students in their first language"? I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

I am supportive of local communities who feel a bilingual program would be educationally valid and helpful for members (and taxpayers) in their communities to have one. I would never ask for a government mandate to apply to all schools about bilingual education.

I think it is your side that is seeking a government mandate.

I also find it a bit hypocritical that you pretend to care about what is best for immigrants. The immigrants themselves-- especially those who are US citizens (and taxpayers)-- are perfectly able to say what is best for their communities (most of them could tell you in two languages).

Many (if not most) of the immigrant community support bilingual education and again, I am very happy that my kids are fully bilingual. I have nieces in a bilingual program that is working very well. One was born here, for the other English was not her first language. Both are fully fluent in English now and the bilingual program (half English and half Spanish) is a good way for them to maintain fluency.

Interesting enough, there are Americans with no links to any Spanish country who put their kids in this particular bilingual program because they want to give their kids this experience...

But, Foxfyre... there are organizations and communities that stand up for the rights and needs of immigrants. You support the Minutemen, an organization that most immigrants, that is the legal ones, hate.

A Conservative claiming to have the interests of immigrants at heart. That would be funny if it weren't so sad.

0 Replies

Setanta wrote:

What the hell is " . . . and expecting to be able to not the language enough to get by."--supposed to mean? What the hell is donde el banyo supposed to mean? You seem to be challenged by verbs. I've never made any effort to learn Spanish, and i know enough to put esta after donde when asking for directions.

Bully for you. I admit I missed the word "speak" in the first sentance, yet somehow you were able to figure out a verb was missing. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:

Your anger and hatred show through in your assumption that people come here expecting that they do not need to know how to speak English. People come here for the simplest of economic reasons. Every immigrant i've ever known, legal or not, has done their damnest to learn English, because it works to their economic advantage.

Anger and hatred? uh, huh. Perhaps you read it as such, but none exists. Perhaps Walter can jump in with his Capt. Exception hat on and tell you that some immigrants do indeed come to America and refuse to try to learn English. Perhaps you just haven't met them?

Quote:

Once again, this is a non-issue raised by rightwingnuts who hate brown-skinned speakers of other languages, who they see as a threat to their lily-white world.

Yet, you are the only one that keeps bringing that issue up and you appear to be the only one that believes that.

I am sure there are some that think the way you accuse me of doing, but then there are some that also believe Moore's movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" is packed full of facts and the American government is a secret cabal of zionists out to dominate the world.

0 Replies

ENGLISH AS OFFICIAL LANGUAGE: YES OR NO?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know