Mid-life crisis

Yes, I do get where you are coming from, moon, and do believe you are right.

I haven't yet actually told him that he would have to "make me feel special".....so I think he just thinks that we are working on our marriage and building it together. Although.....last night I told him that I have changed since April in a way that I didn't expect. I know now that if he left today, I would be okay and I would make it........I didn't know that when he left in April. I was devastated and afraid. I might be devastated now, I don't know yet.....but I would no longer be afraid.

He said that he felt that....and it scared him to feel it. He hadn't really thought about it when he left in April.....he wasn't really thinking about anything except his hormones. But now, he does feel insecure because he knows I can make it without him.....and he is no longer sure he can make it without me.

Last night was the first time that he told me that he knows he is more in love with me than he is with her. He didn't get back in....and he knew he wouldn't, I believe. He just wanted to say it. I believe he meant it. Strange though.....a month ago I would have been THRILLED to hear it. Now.....it's just somewhat comforting, but not the all-powerful relief that it would have been.

What do I mean by special? I guess I mean that I am waiting for him to tell me that he feels like an idiot for ever doing this in the first place. For him to say that he now knows he could never love another woman as much as me. He said something funny a while back....I don't know if I mentioned it.....he said that she got mad at him when they were talking one day, and he mentioned that I was the "best friend he ever had." She got furious and said "WHO'S your best friend???" and he had to backtrack, but he felt bad because he knew that he really did mean it. That's when he started thinking about coming home.

Well....I'm off to the counselor. He is only working 1/2 a day because of the holiday, so we have an earlier appointment. Wish us luck.

Elf- I am so pleased with how you are handling this entire situation. The great part is that if you DO decide to take your husband back, it is because you want him, not that you need him.

Too many women are so needy, that they don't understand the difference.

Freedomelf--

You're incubating some very important eggs--and you don't know what will hatch.

Neither does he.

Thanks, Phoenix. I appreciate it.

Noddy, that's a profound way to put it......yes, that is exactly what is happening. Thanks for pointing that out and giving me pause to ponder.

The counseling session was so good, he asked us if we want to switch to every other week instead of every week. He told us that we were making such profound progress on our own that we can take that step if we wish to. I was surprised when my husband said "I've been getting a lot out of these sessions, so I want to continue on a weekly basis." It made me happy that he felt that way.

In the counselor's today, he talked a lot about how things were getting better and he realized that, if given time, he WILL forget about her eventually. He just needs more time. He also said that he realizes he could never forget about me entirely, and that is not due to our kids. I felt good when he said that, because until last night he hasn't said anything truly positive. He mentioned to the counselor that he was so afraid of saying something positive and then having his stupid hormones kick in again and hurt me all over, that he hasn't said anything. He realizes now that that was just as bad as saying the wrong thing, and he really does need to open up to what he is feeling.

And I was shocked today while I was watching TV, he came and sat next to me on the couch and pushed me up a bit so he could give me a back rub. It was only for a minute, but heck, that's better than I've gotten in a year.

I think he is thinking, because I'm not falling all over him anymore like I used to. I'm holding back to see what happens. Well....anyway....it was a good day.

Have a great 4th, everyone.

Hi Everybody.

Elf it's good to hear about your progress. Yes, I'm sure that he is a bit insecure about you not falling all over him as you say. Hopefully he will come out of this with a better appreciation of who you are, and what he has. I'm also happy that the counselor thought it would be OK to cut back on the visits. Great for you.

I've been meaning to ask, how are the kids? Has he had a chance to take them out alone? Maybe they have some questions they would like to ask him? I'm hoping they've been able to settle back in to their routines.

And your mutual friends? What has been their take on all of this? The comment that your friend made a few posts back about how she would feel uncomfortable (she used a different word, can't remember it) about sleeping with him again if she wasn't sure they'd go back was ndeed a bit abrasive. Is this her "way" or could it be possible that she just said the first thing that came to her mind without processing the whole picture?

In any event, I'm happy that you are doing so well. Good for you.

The kids are getting much better. I worry about my youngest, though, because he is starting to get used to having dad around all the time, and what if it doesn't work out? He still doesn't want to go out with him though, unless I am there. He seems to want to stay at home a lot more now. Course, that will have to change next month when he goes to school....I'm going to stop homeschooling him since I think it's important for him to develop interests as a jr. high student. (entering 7th grade)

Our mutual friends are thrilled to see us together, including his mom and sister. His mom called me yesterday and cried on the phone about how happy she was that her son is back where he belongs. She asked us to come up to see her....a few hours' drive, and this time hubby said that he wants to. He also wants us to visit his grandma in a nursing home. And just today he is seeing a former co-worker for lunch, and asking if she could come over to our house (with hubby and kids) for dinner. So he is starting to not mind "showing me off."

(PS that former co-worker is a friend to BOTH my husband and the other woman, and has tried very hard to stay neutral in everything.... so I'm glad that he wants her to come over for dinner to meet me, finally. I think it might help you-know-who to get over him and move on with her life, because the coworker will probably tell B how much better things are between us now.)

So.....things are getting better, slowly. I think if we keep being honest and open that things will progress. But....I'm not counting on anything right now....even my own feelings. I have to think long and hard about a lot of things.

Hi Elf, glad to see your post.

If you decided to split with your husband, are you in a position to be able to support yourself financially? I'm sure he would pay child support and all that, but would you manage OK? I'm in no way saying that finances should keep you together, just asking.

If you are a stay-at-home Mom and homeschooled your kids, it must not have enabled you to have a proper career. Have you worked steadily during the course of your marriage?

Are you nervous about his co-worker going to your house? Still, be careful. Neutral or no, if this is the first time you are meeting her basically all you had to go by is what your husband told you.

In any case, it's good that you two are doing more couple related things. I hope that you can get more "alone" time because that's really important. My husband would flip if we went on vacation alone without the children. He thinks they will be completely devistated if we were to leave them behind. IMO it's so important in a relationship for the couples to have time alone.

Good for you Elf!

Thanks, moon.

I do have a bachelor's but have not worked for several years. I was homeschooling my son for the past 4 years. The bad thing is that right now, I have no transportation. I can take the bus, but the heat in the desert is murder and the bus stop is a mile away. I may have to do that, if I have no choice. The good news is that I know he wouldn't leave me high and dry.....I'm sure that he would pay enough child support and alimony for me to get the bare minimum paid.....food, rent and utilities. Everything else can go hang until I found something.

I'm a bit nervous about the co-worker. Hubby said that it was a little difficult seeing her, because she reminded him of the old job, and you-know-who that still works there. They talked about Brenda a bit, but not much, according to him. The co-worker said something about her being sued for something job-related, but that it wasn't serious. The co-worker also told him that apparently everyone has found out that it was because of his relationship with her that he left the job, so she is now uncomfortable about working there.....so of course hubby expressed sympathy for his former girlfriend.

I wish they hadn't talked about her at all. Hubby came home in a "weird" mood....he said it was hard to think about her. But he said he is still okay....it's not like it would have been a couple weeks ago, when it would have devastated him to hear she had problems. Now, he is just a bit sad for her.

Anyway....I hope the coworker doesn't talk about her in front of me if she comes this weekend for dinner. I don't think she will....I'm sure it's much easier to talk about her with my husband when they are alone. She and I have talked on the phone, and she seems a very nice person, so I'm sure she will be fine here.

But yeah.....I wish she weren't such a good friend to my husband, so that he could forget about everyone that works there and not have to be reminded. But I don't want to limit his friendships, so I guess I should try to be nicer and be friends, too. It's a dilemma, sometimes. Anyway, this girl seems really nice, and her husband and mine are pretty good friends, too.

Hubby said that yesterday, he was so absent-minded after thinking about her that he accidentally missed his stop on the freeway and headed towards her stop, instead. But as soon as he caught himself, he turned around. So anyway....yeah, I'm a bit nervous.

He did tell me a few days ago that he now knows he is more in love with me than with her. But whether seeing the co-worker and talking about her changed that, who's to say?

Sorry...I'm rambling now.

Elf- Please chill out. I know that it can be very aggravating, but things are not going to go smoothly. If your husband was in love with another woman, he can't just turn off like a faucet.............it is a process. I think that he has shown that he is attempting to be sincere. At this point in time, if it were me, I would overlook his small lapses, even though it might hurt.

In a way, you are between a rock and a hard place. I am happy that he is sharing his feelings with you, but the wound is still fresh, and if he tells you what he is going through, blow by blow, it probably will hurt you.

The two of you might want to discuss this issue with the therapist. I think that you need to develop some guidelines as to what you want to share, and what is best left unsaid.

I agree with Phoenix.

Mr. F. seems to be very open to sharing his feelings about Brenda. Is he equally willing to share your feelings of rage, humiliation, anger and insecurity?

He's on record saying that it was "difficult" for him to see a co-worker connected with his old job. Does he appreciate it may be "difficult" for you?

Remember, you're sitting on eggs--you don't have to walk on eggs as well.

noddy, I haven't really talked a whole lot about my feelings, except in therapy. At least there I am getting a chance to say things without feeling like I am tuning him out. It's really helping me a lot.

I have to admit, I'm having a hard time talking to him about my feelings....but yesterday I DID tell him that the more confused he remains, and the longer he is ambivalent towards me, the further I draw away from him. I told him that I hope he can pull me back before it is too late, and I can't get back the love. Well....I was shocked by his response! He told me that the more I say things like that, the more interesting I become and the more he turns TOWARDS me! What the heck???? He says that he is trying to figure out his head as quickly as he can, but he still has "dark times" when it comes to her.

But strangely enough, I am getting more comfort from what he says about the other woman than he realizes. For example, I noticed a small shampoo bottle....the kind you get in hotels....in his bag. Well, I asked him if he went on a trip with her. He said that he didn't get that bottle on a trip, he got it from his friend when he spent the night there before coming home..... but yes, he once took a long drive with her, about 100 miles, just to get away. He said that he had been feeling messed up in the head for several days, and was deeply depressed, so she suggested a drive to "get away from his problems and confusion." They came back late the same night, though. They just went hiking for a few hours, to get some fresh air. Of course, he was living with her at the time so they still spent the night together.

I don't know why, but it comforts me to know that he was often depressed when he was living with her. He told me that at one point, he felt like he would die if he never saw me again. He has also said things that she said, like "You hold all the cards, and I hold none, so I can't really open my mouth in this relationship." He said he didn't quite understand why she said that....but to me it is obvious.

Things like that make her sound really, really insecure about their relationship.....so she must have realized she was very vulnerable to him coming home. And it also makes me believe that she wasn't letting her TRUE self out.....for fear that he would be turned off. With me, he always sees my true self because he knows it so well. I can't hide like she can. So I think he would be in for a BIG surprise if he stayed with her. Just a feeling I get, from him saying that.

It gives me a bit of comfort to hear things like that, in a weird way. Of course, he doesn't realize that....he is clueless about a lot of things, I have to admit.

It DOES still hurt a lot when I realize he is still depressed about her on occasion (although those occasions seem to be less and less....I think it is more guilt now for the way he treated her, and sadness for their loss of friendship, than it is love).

And I worry, too, because he told me today that he is having lunch with another co-worker (male) from his former job. He said that the co-worker needs to see him because he has taken over my husband's position, and he needs to know what some of the things he did mean....just tying up loose ends. However, knowing this guy as I think I do, he will no doubt gossip about the fact that Brenda is having a hard time at the company while the rumors about why hubby left are flying. So....yes....I think it will get him to think more about her, and feel guilty and sorry for her, and everything else....and it will prevent him from feeling the happiness that he has been feeling lately with me. So I really, really hate that he has to see the guy. But I guess it can't be helped since he really needs the help in preparation for the job.

Brenda seems to have been very well aware that she was playing tug-of-war with the heartstrings of a married man.

Mr. F. seems to be equally oblivious to the emotions of a mistress and of a wife.

Do you feel desired for yourself--as yourself--or do you think Mr. F. wants you as a hard re-won trophy to decorate the wall of his psyche?



"Not the quarry, but the race;
Not the trophy, but the chase."

He's happy analyzing himself as a brooding, complicated Lothario. The question is are you happy?



Don't forget Brenda's youth and bedworthyness. If he's truly a Trophy Hunter, he's varnished her with a fine level of melancholy and hung her on the wall of his psyche as "One Glorious Moment that Got Away".

yeah....I hear what you are saying.

I think I've reached a point where I am able to withstand whatever happens, and I'm no longer worried about what he thinks of me.

I was so busy today, I didn't change, fix my hair or put makeup on in preparation for him coming home from work....this will be the first time he sees me like this when he comes home since he left me in April, but HECK, I've been working ALL DAY and I don't want to BOTHER with makeup all the time! I just decided that if I have to wear makeup and be terrified of him seeing me without it for the rest of my life, I'd rather live without him.....so here I am with my hair pulled back in a pony tail, not curled, and my old jeans still on. I guess I have reached a turning point, LOL, and it feels good. If he can accept this, fine......if he can't, then that's his problem. I can't live in fear anymore.

I'm only getting good clothes on when I go out, or on the weekends......as I say, I've reached a turning point, finally.

If primping doesn't result in backrubs, why primp?



This isn't Kansas, anymore. It isn't even the '50's anymore.

I'm going to keep this short for obvious reasons, but I am so glad to read what I'm reading.

Thanks, mame.

You are right, noddy, it isn't the 50's and I am not going to act like June Cleaver with her pearls on anymore.

Actually, he didn't say anything bad about it at all, and he seemed pretty relaxed all evening. He kissed me goodnight and said "I love you, Buggy" before he went to bed. It felt good, because he usually doesn't say it.....he usually just says "have a good rest" or something like that.

I was kind of upset though, when he told me that he just forgot until he headed out today that he had a special meeting at work.....and HE was the presenter at the meeting, so he couldn't miss it! This blows our counselling session to heck. He said he was going to call the therapist from work and see if we can switch till tomorrow. If the notice is too late then I will just go by myself today. I hope we can switch. But, on the other hand, if we can't....then it will be good to talk to the therapist alone, I guess. There are a lot of things I am afraid of saying in front of hubby.....like my emails with the other woman.I don't want to remind him of her.

BTW, she doesn't email me anymore. She hasn't in over a month. And I do believe that they haven't been in contact at all. Maybe she is getting over him.....I hope she has moved on.

By all means, keep the appt. It will be a good opportunity for you to get some things off your chest.

I'm with J_B. I hope you kept the appointment for the counseling session by yourself.

I'd be a damn fool to speculate on the unconscious motivations of a man I've never met, but "forgetting" the scheduling conflict until the last minute is positively fraught with Freudian mirk.

At the very least this "forgetting" is not the act of a man who accepts that he's living on marital probation.

Of course, "spontaneous" is Mr. F's middle name.

Hold your dominion.

hubby called and said he finally got a hold of the therapist, and rescheduled for tomorrow. I don't think he liked the idea of me going by myself.....hmmmmm.....I seem to recall him saying he wanted to go by HIMSELF before. Wonder what he is afraid of......

Anyway, we are going together tomorrow. When he IM'd me at lunch, he was very sweet. I have to admit, I'm having a hard time deciding if I am still "in love" with him. I know I love him....but IN LOVE???? Gees, that's difficult at this point. And he keeps saying that's the difficult one for him too. I don't think he realizes, though, how little he can take me for granted at this point. I'm not sure he believes that I could ever ask him to leave. But I have to admit, I do think about it daily. And the more he expresses ambivalence towards me, the closer I get to asking him to get out of my life.

At this point, I think that Brenda is the lucky one, because she has been healing her heart for over a month now, and may be on the road to recovery. I'm still stuck in this mess, and either way it turns out, my heart will be a basket case. If he does leave, I hope he can be man enough to be on his own for a while, instead of running to her and breaking her heart all over again just when she is starting to get over him. Of course, I don't think he is unselfish enough for that.....I think if I asked him to leave it wouldn't be more than a few days before his finger would be dialing her number.

Sometimes I look at him and see the most selfish man on earth.....and the funny thing is, he HONESTLY BELIEVES that this all started because he was TOO UNSELFISH.....always giving to his family and never thinking about himself and his own needs. He doesn't have a clue as to what real unselfishness is like. Real unselfishness is about not flirting with someone simply because it feels good, until you are in so deep that you've messed up 5 lives. Unselfishness is about opening up to your wife even if it is difficult or scary, and telling her how you feel. It's EASY to do things for other people because you need to be needed.....or to FOOL YOURSELF into thinking you are, simply in order to avoid exposing your inner thoughts.

Like I said, he doesn't have a clue. But I am beginning to see him in a very different light. He is no longer my hero in any way, shape or form. He is just a man. But is he a man that I'm still in love with, or can get back that feeling with? Gees.........I have a lot of thinking to do.

Good night, all, and thanks again.

I suppose we need a thread about love and in love. Ah, someone else do it...

I think of in love, and I'm not alone on this, but people who disagree aren't alone on it either - as a beginning stage. A long love, a marriage that lasts multiple decades, is pretty much over the pitter patter of beating hearts as they walk across the moors backlit by the setting sun... at least on a daily basis.

I'm one of the ones that think long term love is a product of being together and acting out caring. Well, not every second, that would be quite icky. But basically I think of love as a continuing action, and that it is fed by that action. Not that I am so smart as to getting all that to happen.