Mid-life crisis

Moononice--

I agree that Freedomelf is wise not to waste her energy on despising Brenda. In fact, considering that she's constantly being compared with Brenda by Mr. F., I think she's being superhumanly silent.

I just hope Mr. F. is allowing her to vent in between appointments with the therapist.

When i asked what was 'amazing', of course I was referring to why anyone would think freedomeelf was 'amazing'. she's not 'amazing'... she's living life....getting by... doing okay some days, and just barely other days. that does not qualify as 'amazing', imo.

i am getting over the death of an infant grandson. a totally unexpected, totally inexplicable SIDS death of a beautiful, healthy, lovely, happy, gurgling 4 month old little boy. does that make me 'amazing', too? of course not. there's nothing 'amazing' in surviving. we all do it. and if you doubt that, go to ethiopia or biafra or other places where they have REAL problems. we in our little cocoons here in our 'civilized' countries are so lucky. free is lucky to have had what she had for as long as she had it. and it's sad, really sad, for her to find herself in this situation. i am absolutely devastated to lose my gorgeous little oliver, but i am lucky ---oh so lucky!! - that my precious grandson wasn't kidnapped, molested, discarded on the side of a road somewhere, and that he died at home, in his mother's arms.

so i know I am coming from a horrible place when I write here but this just all seems so frivolous to me. It seems to me in my very black space at the moment that dealing with a cheating spouse is not such an amazing thing.

I am sorry. This is not about you, it's about me. And I'm sorry to foist it on you. But I do hope someone here can see how, in the GRAND SCHEME of THINGS, a cheating spouse is really not a very big deal.

Oh Mame,

I'm so very sorry to hear of your loss. Truly I am. Beleive me, I know how hard it is. I lost my second daughter one day after she was born. The situation you and your children are going through is much worse because there were memories. I was "lucky" in that my baby was gone so quickly. None the less, the loss was crippling.

Is Oliver's mother planning on going to counseling? When this happened to me I went online and found support groups. I went to a counselor here, i'm in the middle-east, but he just gave me pills that made me sleep 16 hours per day and told me to "get over it." Life in a third world country.....Actually Mame, I've seen a lot of suffering. I've lived in the mid-east for 13 years.

It DOES get better but it really takes a while. I covered the loss by getting pregnant again very quickly, 4 months later. I don't know if this is the best thing to do for everybody but it helped me and my husband.

But, loss is relative. To some women loosing a baby is a blessing, one less mouth to feed.

Thank you.




A little tribute to Oliver Jack.

Oliver Jack is just beautiful. I'm so sorry for your loss, Mame.

But, but ... I just want to say this, too. I hope this doesn't sound hard, in your situation. Mame, there is no sort of Richter scale for pain & suffering. Whatever pain a person is experiencing is valid, if it's real to the person. Hell, I've experienced deep grief at the death of beloved pets! People can feel deeply for any number of reasons, some of which can look trivial to others in the grand scheme of things. So Freedomelf is not dealing with this situation she's in in a way that seems right or correct to you. I may not agree with everything that she's doing, either, but I sincerely believe she's doing it with integrity based on her perceptions right now. Those perceptions could just as easily change with time, but right now they are right for her. No amount of anyone else telling her she should think or act differently right now is particularly helpful. I feel strongly about this because I have had a similar experience myself. All I know is that that it was extremely distressing & it took time to to work through the issues before I reached a sort of peace within myself. Me, I went through a lot of different stages of understanding. The initial ones were similar to Freedomelf's right now. I actually ended up, finally, seeing things pretty much as you do. But that took ages & believe me, I was working hard at it! But that was me & this is Freedomelf. Everyone has to work things out in their own way, at their own pace. Try & be a bit more understanding.

Mame- I am so sorry to hear about your grandson. I can understand where you are coming from, but I think that Msolga has "hit the nail on the head".

We all have our share of frustrations, sorrow, grief. To each of us, what is happening to us now, is uppermost in our minds. There is no way of quantifying the importance of grieving one issue over another. My deeply imbedded splinter hurts just as bad to me as someone else's broken leg does to him.

I can understand though, why what has happened to you has colored your reactions to Elf's problem. I think that it is good that you have shared with us the terrible time that you have been having. For me, it helps to understand the sometimes less than empathic way that you have been relating to Elf.

What might be helpful to you is if you started a thread about the sudden loss of a child, and your reactions to it. I think that you will find that there are other people who have either had, or know of similar situations. The way that people coped with it might be helpful for you to deal with your grief.

I was thinking the same thing, Phoenix. Yes, why not start a thread, Mame?

Mame,

Quick search on Yahoo and I found these links:

http://www.griefshare.org/findagroup/

I think you're in Canada? Anyway, you can go to this page and type in your zip code. It will show you which grief sharing groups are meeting close to where you live. From what I read, they have weekly meetings.

Another one:

http://www.compassionatefriends.org/

This one is devoted to the loss of children of any age. It mentions that it offers support to grandparents as well. One of the links is for a chat room.

http://www.obgyn.net/women/women.asp?page=/women/loss/loss

Mentions the loss of infants through SIDS (among other things, miscarriages, etc.). It's more targeted towards the mothers. There are many good links at the bottom of the page.

I doubt any one would mind if you kept posting on this thread. It's taken on a life of it's own anyway. But to get more support, and to help others, you should consider starting your own thread as what has already been mentioned.

My heart really goes out to Oliver's mother. Wow, it's going to be tough for her for a long while. For me, it helped to be around people all the time. I can really, really sympathize with what she's feeling. Wow, poor thing. Prayers are with both of you.

Sorry, one last thing, listen to some of the comments I received after loosing my baby:

Mother-in-law: "Stop crying, she wasn't as pretty as "J" (my first daughter) anyway. Just go have some more."

***Middle-eastern mentality at work here: Girls need to be pretty to marry well. Loosing a baby is not a big deal because you can have more of them. Loosing a husband IS a big deal because he's the one who brings in the money and supports the family.

The wife of one of my husband's friends: "Gosh, I kept trying to take pills so I could abort my 3rd baby, I tried everything to kill him. I guess it's just what God wants. That's why your baby died and mine lived." (I almost slapped her, came very, very close to it)

AND, from my mother, right after my cousin, who was trying to comfort me, said that I'd meet my daughter in heaven one day: " Moon, that's nonsense, you're never going to see that baby again so move on with your life."

Each of these people thought they were helping me out. In defence of my mother, she was heart-broken when my baby died. But she's not, and never will be, a tactful person.

Needless to say, I didn't benefit from any of these approaches.

I'm so sorry, Mame.

Mane--

No words can erase the pain of the death of a beloved child.

I've learned that seasoned grief is easier to carry than raw grief, but the grief endures.

You and your daughter are in my thoughts.

Mame, I am truly sorry for you. I'm sure that no one's problems are important in comparison, and I don't blame you for that. Please don't think I mind anything you have said because it is certainly understandable now, and accept my sympathy.

Moon, YOU are the one that is amazing, because you have suffered such a great loss and did it without the support of the people around you.....and sometimes with the hindrance and cruelty of those around you. Instead of becoming embittered, you have remained kind-hearted and understanding of others. I have tremendous respect for you, and thank you for your kind, kind words to me.

Msolga (and Phoenix, Noddy, Sozobe.....and anyone I missed.) Thank you for, as Phoenix said, "hitting the nail on the head" and having such insight in this.

Well, we went to his sister's house up in the mountains on Saturday, and were planning to spend the night with her when suddenly hubby said, "If you don't mind, we aren't going to stay. I want to surprise my wife with a drive!" Well, I was a bit startled because we had just driven a few hours to get there, but I have to admit, I was intrigued. So we just spent a couple hours with her and the kids, and suddenly we were on the road again. I asked him where we were going and how long it would take, and he said "it's a surprise.....but it will take another 4 hours or so." Well, I knew we were heading east, sort of, so there wasn't THAT much in that direction that it could be.......so I figured it was Las Vegas. Yep.......he took me to Vegas. We got there about 10 at night, with no reservations at all on a holiday weekend.

It was just a spur-of-the-moment thing. He said he wouldn't have done it if our youngest was with us, but our son decided he wanted to stay with our 19 year old, and since my 19 year old's girl had called the night before to say that she had to go away for 4th of July week with her parents, he was bummed out and didn't feel like having the house to himself anymore anyway. (I think that was a freudian slip on his part) So......the two boys stayed together with the pets and we went up to see the sister alone....hence the spontenaity of the decision to drive to Vegas on my husband's part.

Well, it took us about 2 hours to find a room available, since the holiday weekend was booked solid. But it wound up being very nice at the Stratosphere. He called it our "second honeymoon".....and, well.....I have to admit he really romanced it up, and I sort of fell for it. So, yes, we stayed together. It was a wonderful "space" in our lives, and I allowed myself to enjoy it. We marvelled at the fact that we had not spent a single night alone, without kids in the next room, in over 13 years.

I do want to clarify something, though.....I'm really NOT sure that I want him back permanently. I'm still in the "thinking about it" stage. He probably thinks that is just lip service and that I really do want him back, but he's in for a shock if he thinks my feelings haven't changed somewhat. Yes, I still love him.....yes, I know it would be logical for the kids and stuff. But unless he really makes me feel special.....in more ways than just running off to Vegas.....I won't go back to the way it was.

He has a lot of work ahead of him (and so do I) if we are going to get to a point where we are totally comfortable with and trusting of each other again. The counselling will have to be a permanent part of our lives for the next 6 months or so. I have to have the help of a professional to figure out exactly where his head is....as well as mine's.

He did say that he never realized how easy it is to talk to me when he finally STARTS. He just thought it was harder to talk to me than to her because he didn't know how to begin. Anyway....we made headway, but we aren't home yet, emotionally. And I told him that I would let him know next week if he can move out of the guest room. Even if he does, that doesn't mean that I will absolutely take him back....it just would mean that we would see how the relationship goes with all the elements put back in.

My girl friend told me that she thinks it would make her feel "cheap' to be with her husband if she wasn't sure she wanted to stay with him. I told her that I didn't feel that way. I said that I can't be sure that I really want to keep a relationship unless I can explore how I feel about ALL sides of that relationship. Why should I feel cheap? He's been my husband for 20 years, and I've been faithful to him always. I don't feel cheap at all if I decide to enter into that part of the relationship again on a permanent (or as permanent as it can get right now) basis. (and yes, he has checked out in good health)

Anyway....that's where it stands right now.

Mame, I'm truly sorry for your loss. Oliver is adorable. He will always be in your heart. My brother lost a child to SIDS many years ago. The pain will be with him forever, but so will the love he had for his daughter. Perhaps today your pain is heavier than the your heart can bear, but the love is still there.

Then it's about time you did so. He sounds a bit childish in all of this, but he's trying. I love JLN's reference to a midlife crisis being trapped in Junior Moments. As someone who's fussing over my Senior Moments and discovering myself in a different sort of passage, I can totally relate to someone being and acting out of character. Junior Moments, indeed.


Glad to hear it!



Er, um, you were much more kind to your friend than I would have been. Why she felt the need to share that lovely bit of personal feelings with you is quite beyond me, but perhaps that is why I chose to never discuss my situation with anyone.

My hat's off to you, Free. Keep yourself on the front burner through all of this and keep your head high, you have no one to answer to in how you proceed.

Lots goin' on.



Freedomelf, until your husband has a couple of retests (at the 3 and 6 month marks), please be sure you're using condoms when you are having intercourse with him.



http://www.stdresource.com/concern/c1_d_3_a.php

I'm sure he'll understand (perhaps with the assistance of the counsellor) that there's nothing worth risking YOUR health over.

My husband told me that he used condoms every time he was with her until they were both tested, with negative results. He said that she suggested they both be tested just to put each other's mind at rest, and he agreed. (although he admitted the condoms were her idea, not his.) That test was done in April.

I insisted that he get tested since he has been home, and that was also negative. That was June.

Admittedly, we did not use condoms in Las Vegas, but I will ask him to be tested again in October just to have the 6 months over with, and cover all our bases. I'm thinking about all the angles before allowing him back into our room....this is just one important side of it.

Thanks for sharing that info.

That's revealing, isn't it - that B's the one who suggested testing and condoms in that relationship.

~~~~~~~~

Good luck, Freedomelf. There's an awful lot to sort out, digest, consider.

Sounds like both you and your husband have a lot of changes in front of you. Hopefully, the majority, if not all, of them (like a weekend for just the two of them, and dropping the 'Daddy' nickname) will be positive for the overall relationship.

Several thoughts:

Your girlfriend doesn't think you and Mr. F. should sleep together before divorce. How does she feel about pre-marital sex? She sounds like a woman without much empathy.

The weekend in Vegas was spontaneous and fun for you both. Good.

I'd keep in mind that your husband doesn't do long range planning: Going to Vegas for a holiday weekend without reservations was mad and impetuous--fine, if you like mad and impetuous. Mad and impetuous in the long run can be ....mad and impetuous in the long run.

Romantic gestures needn't be expensive. Have the charges for his Fun Times with Brenda been cleared from the credit card yet?

Your finances are not my visit. The Vegas Weekend may fall into the "priceless" category. If so, good.

Hi All,

Elf, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate them. I hope you are doing well today.

I have some questions/comments:

When you look at him, what's the first thing that goes through your mind before any other thoughts set in? You know that "blink?" the very first thought that jumps at you before you can stop it? This isn't a loaded question, I'm just curious.

In a recent post, you wrote this:
>>>I do want to clarify something, though.....I'm really NOT sure that I want him back permanently.... But unless he really makes me feel special.....in more ways than just running off to Vegas.....I won't go back to the way it was. <<<

Ok, for your own benefit you're going to need to clarify "Special." What exactly does treating you special entail? How much of a time frame does he have? It probably isn't a good idea to just throw the word out there without setting some kind of parameters. What do you think?

Hahaha I guess I look at it almost on a business level. He's an employee on "probation" who has already been written up once. You have a decision to make: he either gets tenure or he gets fired. In order for you to make this decision you have to specify what exactly he needs to accomplish within a certain time-frame. This way your decision will be based on something solid, sans emotions getting in the way. And....you have to stick to it.

I wouldn't have brought this up had you not mentioned what I quoted you on above. Maybe the employee bit isn't the best choice of analogies but it may help you see things objectively and help you organize your thoughts.

Have you ever told him point-blank what the consequences would be if, God Forbid, he did this again? Just curious.

And finally, try to work on yourself just for the sake of YOU. Change your routine, start a home-based business, just do something different so you can feel that you are starting a new chapter in your life. Give to yourself, damn, you deserve a little spoiling don't you think?

IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO IMHO (insert disclaimer here)

Elf, letting him think that things are all cozy again and returning to the status quo too soon will be the kiss of death. (you sayyyy you are not doing this but...seems like he's getting comfortable real quick) I'm really sorry for saying this and I'm probably going to get hammered, but you need to let him feel a little insecure every once in a while. He's acted pretty selfish and immature so maybe giving him a bit of a scare every once in a while wouldn't be such a bad thing. I don't mean for you to act like a b*tch. I think you get where I'm coming from.