Forced, huh? Sigh.
Anyway, sure, I can help via the experience I had with the friend who came out. I've heard a lot of coming-out stories, can add more later if you're still interested.
My friend who I'll call Anna and I went to the same high school. She was very smart, and in high school was with this guy who was also very smart, one of those "famous" couple relationships -- you know, they seem to have the best relationship, always near each other, started going out in 9th grade and still together in 12th grade, etc.
They did break up senior year, and smart guy started seeing this daffy little minx, and nobody got it. He got cooler glasses, a cooler haircut, and a lot of us thought he was being a doofus.
Anna and I weren't especially close in high school, but we went off to the same university, in adjacent dorms, and became closer than we had been just because we knew each other already and were glad to see a familiar face. I was one of the very first people she came out to. She was just so nervous. I remember that clearly. Her roommate had said all of these casually homophobic things and Anna was terrified of giving any hints -- but it was her roommate!
Basically, her story went something like -- she and smart guy were soul mates, could talk about anything, same sense of humor, just great together. As time went on, he wanted to go places sexually that she wasn't comfortable with. She didn't really know what was up with that, didn't analyze it too much, just thought she wasn't ready for sex. As the years passed and things weren't changing, he gave up. (Enter the minx.)
The breakup was devastating for her -- he'd been pretty much the center of her life. They had friends as a couple but she didn't really have many friends, herself. She was despondent, but it was all still in terms of him.
Then she went off to college, and in her first couple of weeks there, was picked up by a Betty type -- someone who had always known she was lesbian, very confident. Anna was completely blown away. All of the sexual feelings she thought she just didn't have -- because she had been trying to conjure them in terms of smart guy, who she couldn't muster any attraction for -- came roaring through with this new person.
It was an incredibly intense affair -- but Betty-type didn't have patience for how naive and overwhelmed Anna was, and broke up with her.
That's where I came in. Anna really wanted to talk to someone, couldn't talk to her roommate, and didn't know what the heck was going on with her. She was seriously depressed about the whole thing, didn't know what to do. We talked a lot. I listened a lot.
The process with her was long and painful. She went to therapy, tried dating guys, etc. She WANTED to be heterosexual -- it's just easier, in so many ways. She finally (after a LONG time) figured out that she was just plain lesbian and that's all there was to it, and eventually found a nice girl (man I was happy about that -- I shot glares at Betty-type everytime I saw her for years afterwards for being so callous with Anna), and after a few more sane lesbian relationships, settled down with one really cool lady. Last I knew, they were still together.
Speaking of being force-fed someone else's opinion...
Quote:US Senate Candidate Wants Death Penalty for Homosexuals
March 7, 2006, 08:26 AM PST
TOLEDO -- Merrill Keiser, Jr., is a trucker by trade, and he's hoping his next journey takes him all the way to Washington. His goal is a seat in the US Senate, but first he has to make it through the primary that will determine which Ohio Democrat will be the November ballot.
The Fremont man is causing some controversy with one of his beliefs.
He tells News 11 homosexuality should be a felony, punishable by death. "Just like we have laws against murder, we have laws against stealing, we have laws against taking drugs -- we should have laws against immoral conduct," Keiser says.
Keiser has no political background. He says the only reason he's running as a Democrat is because that's how he was registered the last time he voted.
Keiser will face Democrat Sherrod Brown in the May primary.
http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=4590031
I sure hope Betty and Sue don't live in Ohio. Maybe that is the defining question to help you clarify your conscience. Are the lives of people like Betty and Sue worth protecting with a vote?
Democrat??
Yuck.
The good news is, I get to vote against this asshole. Yay.
Some more pearls of wisdom from this guy, Soz...
Quote:He also suggested making "conversion to Christianity" part of the "war on terror" to "teach Muslims the error of their choice in religion." Keiser added that if a person believes in evolution, he or she "has no rights."
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid27548.asp
Butrflynet,
I just finished reading your earlier post. Actually, I read it a few times. I don't know what to say. I am very conflicted on this issue. But, I cannot believe that God would want anyone to be treated in the manner that some have been as you evidenced in those posts. This is a very difficult issue for me, Butrflynet. I realize that to many it probably shouldn't be. But, I have years of beliefs behind me and an obvious lack of knowledge of how things actually are for homosexuals.
Talking to Betty and Sue is so different than talking with those on A2K. It's so cut and dried for them. No problems accepting how they felt and their decisions, etc. So, there is much I cannot learn from them. I have not considered myself as discriminatory towards homosexuals and I have to say that is because I haven't beaten any up or something such as that. Now, I am having to take a good look at my feelings and mindset and determine if that is discriminatory or not. Now, Betty and Sue tell me no, it's not. But, they know me. They know all of me. My life story, etc. So, they aren't just looking at a single issue, they are looking at the whole picture.
I feel like I sensed a bit of anger in your last couple of posts? I can understand that and I can't blame you for it. I can only ask that you try to understand that I am trying to really look at this and see the whole truth. So please, try not to judge me a homophobe or anything just yet. Sozobe and others are taking the time to explain so many things to me that I didn't know about. It may take me some time but I am willing to see this through the eyes of others.
Re: Questions about Homosexuality
PoetSeductress wrote:cjhsa wrote:I'm just funnin' with ya. Didn't mean to make a fuss. I have no problem with gays, just don't like the agenda being forced on our society, particularly by Hollywood.
My sentiments exactly, cj. I refuse to be force-fed someone else's opinion about a lifestyle that comprises only a very tiny percentage of the population. If they didn't do that, there would be less of an issue with it.
When I was a teenager, I had friends who were homosexual, bisexual, transexual, and you name it.
BUT I RESENT IT BEING FORCED DOWN SOCIETY'S THROATS.
My sister once said she had no problems with gays, as long as they stayed in the closet where they belonged. Unfortunately, she wasn't kidding. I don't know how one goes about making changes that right a wrong without making people look at it.
I'd love it if society at large would wake up one morning and let go of all it's biases and prejudices. It ain't gonna happen so the only way I know of to allow my fellow citizens to live with the same rights I have is to help fight for them. If that forces people in society to face things they'd rather not face, then <shrug> tough sh!t.
Sozobe,
I can't speak for PoetSeductress about the forced issue so I'm going to leave that to her. She is very capable of handling herself, as I'm sure you know.
Your friend, Anna, was very lucky to have you there to talk to sozobe. The more of these things that I am reading and hearing about the feelings brought about by homosexuality the gladder I am there are those like you, J_B, Butrflynet, and others that can see the whole picture. I have had one dimension of the picture for so long. I still have a long way to go on this and I am going to need some patience and it wouldn't hurt to throw in whatever kind of prayers any of you pray.
What you said about me respecting things because of the people I respect really hit me hard, sozobe. I don't know if this is the place to bring this up, but unless you understand exactly what is going on in my head, then you can't fully understand me and why this is so important to me.
I bond fairly easily with people. Even people I have only met through emails. It takes a few emails of course, but I do form bonds. For those that I consider more intelligent than myself, more learned, more open-minded, etc., and willing to listen to me or talk with me and yet don't judge me for what I believe, I do hold in a higher esteem than others. Why? I don't know that I can answer that because I'm not sure. So, when one of those that I've bonded with and I respect gets upset with me for what I believe, etc., it hurts me. It hurts a lot. I know it shouldn't, but it does.
Now, so many think I am so wrong on this issue. So, if those that I respect say this and I have this conflict, then something is wrong somewhere. Some that liked me before may never like me again. Some that didn't, may. I can live with all of that. But, what I can't live with is this conflict. I can't stand to hurt people's feelings or upset or offend them. I want to leave this world with no one angry at me and no one left hurt because of something that I did. I know that's not very realistic but that's the way I feel.
And now, I feel like I have hurt people. Not necessarily because of my religious beliefs, but the way I have shown those beliefs. So, that's another part of why I am doing this. I guess as things come up about this, I'll just let you know so maybe it can help you to help me.
I can't thank you enough for doing it, sozobe. It may not seem all that important to you or others but for some reason, this is very important to me. It's like I have something to do before I leave this world and just don't know what it is type of thing? Does that make sense?
I just want to make one quick comment about something. If everyone were put in prison because of immoral conduct, we would all be in jail. There is no one on the face of this earth that has not committed something that could be considered immoral. Good grief. No wonder people get so angry about religion.
Re: Questions about Homosexuality
J_B wrote:PoetSeductress wrote:cjhsa wrote:I'm just funnin' with ya. Didn't mean to make a fuss. I have no problem with gays, just don't like the agenda being forced on our society, particularly by Hollywood.
My sentiments exactly, cj. I refuse to be force-fed someone else's opinion about a lifestyle that comprises only a very tiny percentage of the population. If they didn't do that, there would be less of an issue with it.
When I was a teenager, I had friends who were homosexual, bisexual, transexual, and you name it.
BUT I RESENT IT BEING FORCED DOWN SOCIETY'S THROATS.
My sister once said she had no problems with gays, as long as they stayed in the closet where they belonged. Unfortunately, she wasn't kidding. I don't know how one goes about making changes that right a wrong without making people look at it.
I'd love it if society at large would wake up one morning and let go of all it's biases and prejudices. It ain't gonna happen so the only way I know of to allow my fellow citizens to live with the same rights I have is to help fight for them. If that forces people in society to face things they'd rather not face, then <shrug> tough sh!t.
You are putting words in my mouth that I didn't speak. It's the POLITICAL AGENDA that I'm against. Every consenting adult has a right, both homosexual and heterosexual, to have whatever kind of sex they want to have, even it's unhealthy and nasty. They also have a right to exercise their full rights as an American citizen. But they do NOT have the right to force people to accept it as a wonderful, normal, alternative lifestyle. People should tolerate it, yes. But they should not have to suffer a barraging bombardment, day in and day out, by a radical agenda to brainwash the newest generation into thinking it's okay to experiment with it as another perfectly acceptable choice. IT IS NOT.
Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you have to approve of and endorse their actions.
"They also have a right to exercise their full rights as an American citizen."
Would you help them acheive those rights by voting for gay marriage?
Questions about Homosexuality
Momma Angel wrote:I just want to make one quick comment about something. If everyone were put in prison because of immoral conduct, we would all be in jail. There is no one on the face of this earth that has not committed something that could be considered immoral. Good grief. No wonder people get so angry about religion.
That's a good point, MA. We should have high ideals, though, some higher target to shoot for. If there aren't any, then the only target hit will be the dirt.
It's better to shoot for a star, miss and hit the top of a mountain, and be called a hypocrite, than it is to shoot for a saw-off tree trunk, miss and hit a skunk on the ground, and not be called anything at all.
PoetSeductress,
I understand what you are saying here and I can't say I disagree. The only problem I see as the problem is who gets to decide what the immoralities are? Now, I definitely have my viewpoints on this and I think most know what they are.
Of course, I believe God is the ultimate authority but others don't. This is a very difficult situation. I don't want to sit on the fence about it. I want to be able to do the right thing for all.
There has to be some way that we can all live together peacefully and each have our own beliefs without infringing on someone else and still stick to what we believe. I truly believe this is possible. I am trying to find out how to do that.
Questions about Homosexuality
Don't worry, MA. It isn't sitting on the fence when you say that something isn't good.
Questions about Homosexuality
Lash wrote:"They also have a right to exercise their full rights as an American citizen."
Would you help them acheive those rights by voting for gay marriage?
I wouldn't be voting for anything. It's the state and national governments that take care of that sort of thing. If it becomes legal, then so be it. If not, then it won't.
It's like this, Lash. Very few people who are gay, have the ability to change their desires. So I'm not out to deny them of their sexuality. It's the government who pays out the money in tax benefits for married couples. So it's up to Uncle Sam as to whether he wants to do this, or not, with regard to the legalization of gay marriage.
The reason the government does this at all for married couples, is because it's a reward to the people for doing something which benefits the country. Marriage is a stablizer, in that you get married, settle down, have children, become more responsible, etc. This is of course a generalization, but it's a valid one. On the whole, homosexual marriage can't offer that same kind of contribution to the country. The government doesn't have a vested interest in it.
Any gay person can get married right now, in a gay church. But not legally. So you see, they're after those benefits.
I'm leaving it up to my representatives to handle that one. I'm staying out of it.
soz, I didn't read through all 16 pages of this thread, but I remember reading something many years ago about most children in adolescence have same sex attraction but are outgrown by their late teens to early twenties. Anybody else remember this "study?"
It was on the ballot in my state.
You don't vote?
Lash wrote:It was on the ballot in my state.
You don't vote?
As I said, I leave
that choice up to them. What part did you not understand?
The part where you said they deserved their rights, but you wouldn't vote to help them secure their rights.
I also don't understand the part about people not voting.
