Totally agree with the last sentence, JP.
What I was disagreeing with is that the information is more reliable if it comes from people who are gay, themselves. My question is what information, I guess. If the information is how they feel about various things, I'm sure they can say it best. But in terms of the science -- which is the direction is gone -- the science is the thing, and anyone can cite it, IMO.
Again, I think both -- first-hand information AND rigorous, valid, scientific studies -- are valuable, especially in tandem.
sozobe wrote:Totally agree with the last sentence, JP.
And that is really the point I am trying to make.
It just makes sense that if you are asking if homosexuals are born gay or are gay because they choose to, that you can't really answer that without asking gay people.
jpinMilwaukee wrote:... One friend says it is by choice one says she was born that way. So what? It doesn't change the fact that both of them are the way they are.
I'm not sure the one friend said it was by choice. She said she became homosexual but didn't indicate that it was a choice. I don't think any of us choose who we're attracted to.
Momma Angel wrote:Why does it matter? That's a good question, jp. I don't know how to answer that other than to say I am finding myself in somewhat of a conflict and I feel the only way to work through that conflict is to find answers to the questions I have.
Momma,
I wasn't refering to anything in the past.
What is your conflict? Perhaps you are asking the wrong questions and therefore getting the wrong answers.
Not everything is about you personally, MOAN. JP's remark about "know they enemy" is a reference to people who obsess over the question of whether or not homosexuals are born that way or choose it. It had no refernce to your behavior at this site.
Try to stay on topic.
J_B wrote:I'm not sure the one friend said it was by choice. She said she became homosexual but didn't indicate that it was a choice. I don't think any of us choose who we're attracted to.
Perhaps she didn't choose but she did say that she felt that she wasn't born gay and didn't "become gay" until the age of 12.
The last sentence, that I was agreeing with, was "Who cares why people are gay? They are gay. Do people care why you are staight?"
I've already addressed the rest of it. Have you read the article? Highly recommend it, if not.
Meanwhile, I read
this today, adds a layer of complexity but thought it was interesting:
Quote:Helen Fisher, a research anthropologist at Rutgers University, said in an interview that human partnerships are shaped by three independent neurochemical brain-body systems, responsible respectively for sexual attraction, romantic yearning and long-term attachment.
this
Setanta wrote:Not everything is about you personally, MOAN. JP's remark about "know they enemy" is a reference to people who obsess over the question of whether or not homosexuals are born that way or choose it. It had no refernce to your behavior at this site.
Try to stay on topic.
Actually, I
would include her into that category. I was questioning her interest in this topic and still feel that there are sinister deeds at work.
Sinister? Really?
I have the impression that it's more that Momma Angel hasn't had a lot of exposure to the kind of information we're providing now. So I'm happy to provide it, and see what happens.
jpinMilwaukee wrote:Setanta wrote:Not everything is about you personally, MOAN. JP's remark about "know they enemy" is a reference to people who obsess over the question of whether or not homosexuals are born that way or choose it. It had no refernce to your behavior at this site.
Try to stay on topic.
Actually, I
would include her into that category. I was questioning her interest in this topic and still feel that there are sinister deeds at work.
However, JP, MOAN was referring specifically to accusations of lying which have been made against her in other threads. She took your reference to be to those specific incidents, and not to the attitude of "know thy enemy" to which you referred.
Another aspect can be examined on this site dealing with Pheromons.
http://www.doesgodexist.orgMayJune97
/Pheromones
RefuteGayArguments.html
(This is one line)
There is a gay male in my family that hasn't come out yet, his mother, whom I consider the buckle of the bible belt will no doubt have a nervous breakdown when he does because this little dude is going to be a screaming queen. There is no explanation, its just the way it is and I accept it.
sozobe wrote:Sinister? Really?
I have the impression that it's more that Momma Angel hasn't had a lot of exposure to the kind of information we're providing now. So I'm happy to provide it, and see what happens.
Yep. To many of Momma posts sound like someone I know. And this person would fall into the Know Thy Enemy category. I may be wrong which is why I am asking why it is so important to her and what her conflict actually is.
Set, gotcha... thanks for the clarification.
I agree with you on that one, JP. This is one subject about which MOAN endlessly obsesses.
Still... sinister?
What's the worst-case scenario, here?
I don't know what she has in mind.
My guess is that she either finds the information she is looking for (that it is a choice) which reaffirms her religious beliefs and then uses that to continue the crusades against anything found not heaven worthy, or she will find info contrary to what she is looking for, ignore it, and continue the crusades against anything not found heaven worthy.
How is that for a run on sentence?
Excellent specimen. :-)
OK. That's not a very bad worst-case scenario, to me. I'll go ahead and put the info out there and see what happens.
Sozobe,
I greatly appreciate your trying to help me out with this. But, I can see it is quickly becoming something other than what you and I had intended.
So, I guess it's just best to drop it because I don't want to cause anymore conflict.
Thank you everyone for helping me with this. I do appreciate your trying to help me.
I think you should. It's always worth a shot... and I have been know to be wrong once or twice in the past, believe it or not.
No need to drop it. I was just wondering what your intentions were, momma.
