Questions about Homosexuality

Yeah, I agree they shoudn't have to.

I was kind of musing aloud about the dichotomy of how many gay people there are in L.A./ Hollywood, as a geographic region, but then how there is still an almost anachronistic reluctance on the part of the stars to actually come out of the closet. As in, if you're growing up gay in L.A./ Hollywood, which message prevails?

soz-- It's an interesting topic. I wasn't aiming that comment at you, by any means.

Just general opinion.

I really think it's a declaration of privacy by people tired of intrusion (actors, who happen to be gay), more so than an embarrassment of being gay (all gay actors). (But, as LW alluded, that open acceptance, IMO, has only been in the last decade. In the 80's, it seemed like McCarthyism where gays were concerned.)

I lived in Hollywood in the 50's and early 60's -- everyone knew who was and who wasn't but there was a kind of honor system that still exists today. Outing people should be considered as anathema as nearly any kind of social transgression. The late night comedians do have a proclivity to do a left-handed outing.

Reagan had a gay attorney on his staff, Roy Cohn, now a famous character in "Angels In America" and played by none other than Al Pacino. This was an example of the paranoia of the 80's towards homosexuality and the onset of AIDS certainly did not help. It took a long time to admit there was only one way to control it. Try to be monogamous and/or practice safe sex.

A good therepy for those with even the slightest homophobia would be to see the entire mini-series "Angels in America." They may need a new pair of glasses to make it sink in but if they come out at the end still inflicted with that irrational mental illness, I'd say there is not hope for them.

So that's interesting -- if you're growing up gay in L.A./ Hollywood, you actually do know that all of these movie people are gay even though the general population (i.e. the rest of America) doesn't?

Basic thing I'm asking, though you don't have to answer -- you (Wiz) have said elsewhere that you didn't have a particularly difficult time growing up, and I think that's slightly unusual for that time period especially. I'm trying to figure out if it was WHERE you grew up, or if you were just lucky, or what.

When many of your close friend are in the industry, yes. The general population of L.A. would have a large proportion that might know but it wasn't anything new.

This is what I said about demographics and exactly what the film "Brokeback Mountain" addresses. If Jake and Ennis had met in West Hollywood, they would have been an item. Whether they could stay together with all the temptations is another story. I mean Hollywood and Laguna Beach were wide open and the local laws changed quickly as far as police being involved with harrassing gays.

(You have to assume in the film that Jack and Ennis were living in a Wyoming bubble and never heard of the gay communities in California, New York or virtually any big city).

(Addressing the Jack character as "Jake" was strictly a Freudian slip -- don't make anything of it, please! )

Were you born there or did you make your way there?

(Again, no need to answer these questions if you'd rather not, just curious.)

I was born nearby in Maywood, Calfornia and going through public schools lived in several different communities including Montebello, CA, an LA suburb near Whittier. I, of course, began socializing in LA and Hollywood being a member of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society when in high school and came out in my first year at East Los Angeles College (discovering most of the people I had associated with were gay or gay friendly). In big cities and especially West Hollywood, the percentage of gay men to straight men is naturally considerably higher than the national average. Poor single gals were saddled (sic) down with that. There seemed to be as many gay bars as straight bars in the area.

This should not be surprising, though. Even in 1969, when the Stonewall Union was formed, there were people living in New York who didn't know there was any significant homosexual community there. Columbus, Ohio, is a magnet for homosexuals in Ohio, and has a very large and militantly active homosexual community. Yet, you can drive to small towns within an hour of Columbus which are oblivious to it. The "Gay Pride" parade one year attracted a good deal of attention because some of the lesbians took their shirts off. A few were arrested, but charges were dropped in all cases. What amazed me, though, was the number of people from towns around Columbus who wrote to The Columbus Dispatch to deplore the "outsiders" who had come into Columbus agitating and stirring up trouble. One of the local television stations sent a crew out, and discovered to their surprise and that of (i'd say) most people in Columbus, that outside the city, it wasn't known there was a large homosexual community in Columbus. If you live there, it makes sense--it's the state capital, and the one place in Ohio most likely to practice tolerance (Ohio does have laws protecting homosexuals against discrimination)--additionally, the city both has laws against anti-homosexual discrimination and recognizes same-sex partners in its benefits package.

I'd been going to a coffee shop for years owned by a middle-aged homosexual couple. It was not a "gay coffee shop," it was just a coffee shop owned by two homosexual men. Eventually, though, it became a hang-out for young homosexuals. I guess i was kinda slow, but the nickel dropped and in discussing it with people there, i realized, the city of Columbus may have been "enlightened," but the Chamber of Commerce and the Tourism Bureau weren't advertising the homosexual community there as an attraction.

Wiz, that's about what I figured from what you said, thanks for filling it out a bit more. Glad you happened to be in the right place and that things went relatively smoothly for you.

When I lived in Laguna Niguel (near Laguna Beach which had a very large gay community), I used Crown Hardware consistantly. They had several locations along the coast including fashionable areas like Corona Del Mar (the store is still there). It was owned by a middle-aged gay couple. This story is not isolated. Another long term relationship friend was president of a large savings and loan and they owned a large hotel in Palm Springs. You just can't be sure then or now if you are walking into an apparantly straight establishment that is owned by gays or a gay consortium. People are naive.

Incidentally, the chain "Hamburger Marys" which promotes itself as "gay friendly" is realy a gay dinner house/bar that they hope straights will go out to for entertainment. It's a franchise and so far is successful.

I loved Angels in America. I only saw it once. I think a re-renting is in order.

"Angles In America" is an extraordinary revelation. No wonder the play won multiple Tonys and the HBO mini-series won multiple Golden Globes and Emmys. It was actually the best film of that year even over LOTR.

Which kind of bothers me with this "Brokeback" backlash as "Angels" did win so much critical and award reponse several years ago. The tide is turning and some will get flooded out by it. I'd say, be prepared.

This may be a bit off topic sozobe but I think it kind of goes along with the questions title of the thread.

What about those that are transgendered or transvestites? Isn't it also important to remember not to ridicule them or call them names in any way? I don't know much about transgendered/transvestites but wouldn't negative behavior toward them also be considered discriminatory?

I wonder if this is another hypocritical question, feigning innocence with an agenda?

She proves herself with every breath.

Look at that question. Is there anyone who thinks it's sincere?

Oh, it's sincere all right. I know someone who has made disparaging remarks against someone they felt was a "horrid creature" and a "freak" because of possible perceived gender dysfunction. So, I was just wondering if this could be considered as discriminatory behavior.

She means that roxxxanne/twinpeaks/harper prson, who doesn't hesitate to use sexuality to insult other people.

If Roxanne uses it like that, I feel perfectly comfortablel returning it.

There are reams of evidence of her doing just that, and me returning it. All over.

Difference is, I wouldn't impede her rights. You would.