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Questions about Homosexuality

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 08:54 pm
Betty and Sue came over today. I asked them to listen to what I had to say and then to think about it and tell me their thoughts. It went something like this:

Both of you know how I have always viewed homosexuality. You both know that I consider both of you to be like sisters to me. In trying to find some answers to some questions, I found out that I wasn't treating others right in this situation. So, I need to know from the both of you whether I have even seemed to treat you differently just because you are gay. (At this point, they broke out laughing. Shocked )

I asked them that in particular because of the fact that it was asked of me if we ever joked about this and I had to admit that we never did. I wondered why. Betty and Sue said we didn't because it seemed to be too important of an issue to me?! Shocked They said that I sometimes seemed to be walking on eggshells concerning this? They said they weren't uncomfortable but felt that I was?! Shocked But, they have known me for a long time and they understood it wasn't anything personal but a conflict within me because of my religious beliefs.

I sat there absolutely speechless for a few minutes. All this time, here I was thinking I'm this enlightened person about this issue and I had no clue. Betty told me that they never felt I was discriminatory toward them but she understands how others felt that way from what I have said. I told her I was discriminatory by my actions. She laughed at me! Not because I was discriminatory but because I kept telling her yes I was and she said no I wasn't. She said, "What's wrong with this picture?" Haven't you been telling them (A2K) that you weren't discriminating? It was funny. Laughing

They are two very special ladies. And I don't mean special because they are gay. They are special because they, no matter what, value our friendship and are willing to forgive my ignorance.

This thread was a big eye opener for me. Sozobe, thanx again so much for doing this. And thank everyone that gave me feedback. I still have a bit of a conflict about the religious aspect of this but I think I can come to some reconciliation on that soon. I think I had to get this particular part of my conflict cleared up first.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 05:52 am
Chumly wrote:

Homosexual bigotry is not shared by all cultures, even in North America:

Native Americans not only accepted lesbian and gay people, they also respected them as prophets, hunters or healers. Rae Trewartha looks at homosexuality in traditional culture.


Yeah, the key phrase here is "accepted" as in past tense. They're not so accepting anymore. I'm not sure whether this is because of the influence of Christianity or rather, the colonising Europeans that eventually ended up constituting the majority of North America's population, but there you go.

And Momma, check your version of the Bible again, or rather check http://www.biblegateway.com. I don't know about you, but I always have trouble finding any passages condemning female homosexuality. It's as if they don't exist.

Surely, if the Bible itself does not condemn female homosexuality, your conflict over Betty and Sue's relationship will disappear?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 06:21 am
Wolf_ODonnell- What I have found, over the years, was that sexual differences amongst females was never accorded the animosity in society that homosexuality in males had. I think that had to do with the idea that what females did, in general, was not terribly important to society.

The only time that female sexuality was judged inappropriate by society, was when the woman or girl, was promiscuous, with many male partners. I believe that the strictures were more to protect the males from consorting with a "loose" female, than any concern about the behavior of the woman herself.

I grew up in the era of the "double standard". For those too young to remember, a guy who had lots of (female) sexual partners was considered a stud, a "Romeo", which was a positive evaluation, while his female partners were considered tramps and sluts.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:33 am
The Leslie Stahl 60 Minutes "Gay or Straight" video:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/09/60minutes/main1385230.shtml
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:42 am
Thanks Wiz, Phoenix posted that, too.

The timing is interesting -- near the beginning of this thread I posted a link to a long article in the Boston Globe that has almost exactly the same narrative arc but was published in August 2005. It has a bit more of the science involved, too, and more thorough explanations.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:50 am
Right -- this is more a thumbnail essay to promote people into further investigation -- but it was on the most popular news magazine on television which is a good sign. The old and recent studies of homosexuality in the wild kingdom has pricked up some ears. It is not uncommon in chimpanzees, one of the most biologically close species to humankind.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:52 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell- What I have found, over the years, was that sexual differences amongst females was never accorded the animosity in society that homosexuality in males had. I think that had to do with the idea that what females did, in general, was not terribly important to society.


Yes, I think it had something to do with the fact that the semen was considered the seed of life (hence the every drop of semen is precious and must not be spilled through masturbation), whilst the women was just thought of as an incubator for said seed.

Quote:
The only time that female sexuality was judged inappropriate by society, was when the woman or girl, was promiscuous, with many male partners. I believe that the strictures were more to protect the males from consorting with a "loose" female, than any concern about the behavior of the woman herself.

I grew up in the era of the "double standard". For those too young to remember, a guy who had lots of (female) sexual partners was considered a stud, a "Romeo", which was a positive evaluation, while his female partners were considered tramps and sluts.


This reminds me of the time I watched a part of Terry Jones' (he was one of the Monty Python guys) documentary, "he Hidden History of Sex and Love". Most Church attempts to limit sexual attitudes focused squarely on the woman.

Interestingly, in the documentary, Mr. Jones stated that Kellog's Corn Flakes were initially designed to decrease the female libido. The idea was that a heartily nutritious meal would increase the female desire for sex, so corn flakes were designed to be less nutritious. Only problem was that the original product was so bland, nobody bought it!
(Information half-remembered from the documentary. It was such a long time ago).
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:52 am
I find it unconvincing that MOAN posts a contention that her alleged lesbian frined allegedly told her that she is not discriminatory.

It gets tedious to read so many posts in which MOAN either directly or inferentially touts her virtue. I should be used to it, though, she's done it since she got here.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 09:57 am
Agreed, about the importance of it being on 60 Minutes, Wiz.

I think the split on how people react to gays and lesbians has something to do with perceived threat, too. Men are more threatening, sexually -- they're usually bigger and stronger, and are simply equipped to rape in a way that women are not (though I know it's happened). While rape and sex are separate issues in many ways of course, there is overlap, too, especially on the unconscious level.

So it would make sense to me that men feel more threatened at the idea of male-male sexuality than women do at the idea of female-female sexuality.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:00 am
Setanta,

You might just want to catch up a bit. You obviously don't seem to have the entire story. If you go back to page one of this thread and read everything, I think you might have a clearer picture.

Oh, and thanx for your contribution to the thread. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:02 am
I've been reading since page one, since day one for this thread. I have no more reason now to consider you truthful than i did when the thread started--and i don't.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:04 am
Like I said, thanx for the contribution. Rolling Eyes
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:06 am
Yes, i'm sure it is as welcome to you as your puerile "smilies" are to people at this forum.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:09 am
I tried being nice to you and making peace, Setanta. You would have none of it. I offered an olive branch and you put it in a woodchipper.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:10 am
After the enlightening conversation, MOAN, Betty and Sue retreated to the hot tub, where they had a tumultuous three-way.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:13 am
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/laughing1.gifWHO told you????? Shocked Shocked Shocked
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:15 am
Setanta wrote:
I've been reading since page one, since day one for this thread. I have no more reason now to consider you truthful than i did when the thread started--and i don't.

Even assuming you're right about Momma Angel's truthfulness: since that didn't stop you from reading since page one, I must conclude that you enjoy being lied to; in fact, I must conclude that you can't get enough of it. What on Earth are you complaining about?

Cheer up boss; come on, here's another smiley for ya.

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 12:38 pm
Thomas wrote:
Setanta wrote:
I've been reading since page one, since day one for this thread. I have no more reason now to consider you truthful than i did when the thread started--and i don't.

Even assuming you're right about Momma Angel's truthfulness: since that didn't stop you from reading since page one, I must conclude that you enjoy being lied to; in fact, I must conclude that you can't get enough of it. What on Earth are you complaining about?

Cheer up boss; come on, here's another smiley for ya.

("emoticon" removed in the interest of good taste)


One can an walk down a trail in the woods, and avoid stepping in the feces of the animals which inhabit those woods, enjoying the experiene all the while. By the same token, i can read this thread, and enjoy and/or be informed by what others contribute while ignoring what MOAN "contributes."

What you feel you must conclude is not only absurd, but apparently predicated on a very narrow, limited view of in what this thread consists.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 12:46 pm
I have gotten great smiles from this thread, and I feel new respect for several contributors on this thread. I do most scroll over the purple, because I know it is another fake attempt at getting attention and sympathy.

She still says homosexuals who are tortured and hounded all their lives, and finally commit suicide, are the only ones who bear responsibility for the suicide. She hasn't changed. She just can't stand to be disagreed with.

Ask her if they're going to hell.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 04:08 pm
Lash,

Would you kindly stop putting words in my mouth? Or at least use all the words. I said ANYONE who commits suicide is responsible for the ultimate act itself. I said yes, outside forces affect someone but if you pick up a gun and shoot yourself or take a handful of pills, it is you that does it.

If you tell the police that someone is threatening suicide, they go take the person threatening suicide to get help. They don't round up every single person that has contributed to the problem.

Your obvious dislike of me is skewing your vision IMO. Try reading what I actually do POST and not what you THINK I post.
0 Replies
 
 

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