Manipulating women into liking you

It's acting outside the social norms. A hot girl all dolled up is going to hear cheesy lines, compliments all day, and knows she's hot. In her mind, she's as secure as could be. Then when some guy gives her an unusual backhanded compliment, it throws her off guard a bit. If he can draw some attraction from her, now she has to do a little chasing and get HIS interest, something she's not used to. The latest girl I've been seeing is extremely attractive, and I've seen how guys act around her. They all turn into super nice guy. She's not used to people telling her she's got cute floppy earlobes.

I've only been certifiably hot for a short time in my life, so it's not like I'm an expert, but I had all of those -- the endless compliments and the guys trying to get my attention by being backhanded and such. The ones who interested me were the ones who were smart, funny, independent, and respectful.

And believe me, there are PLENTY of super-hot women who hear compliments all day who are extremely insecure. I'd say more than the general population, in fact, since if they're really extremely hot they usually (not always) put a premium on their looks -- and there's always someone hotter.

Hypnosis...I WISH I knew that. Next book I have to pick up.

To step back for a minute -- I would be interested in seeing what happened if you changed your style, Slappy, but of course I won't seriously argue that. Whatever floats your boat.

But this thread is specifically directed towards the many guys who come here asking for advice along those lines, and that's what I've been addressing. If some plain ol' nice guy who doesn't already have these tendencies purposely tries to start the manipulation by playing on her insecurities bit -- both things you specifically said, by the way -- THAT's where I step in with nu-uh-uh-uh.

I think there's a place for teasing, sure, but it's a minefield to make it so personal so early on (and I assume we're talking about early on, that's been the context of most of this). You don't talk about the women coming back with, "Yeah, and that shirt you're wearing looks like it belongs on an Olympic iceskater," which would be one thing... instead, you're reporting boring straight lines. Again, mutual makes a big difference there.

My "style" is my personality. Yes, I've adopted things here and there, but I'm not acting.

Plain old nice guy can't pull off the teasing because you're referring to the guy who does it while stuttering, and with zero tact. I couldn't pull it off before either. Which is why the first thing I point out is getting confidence and the right outlook. That is obviously the most important thing. And confidence is one thing you can change, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The girl that responds by making fun of my shirt? I love it. Could be the start of a fun conversation.

Again, exercise/ hypnosis.

At least we agree on the confidence part.

Trying to think of what I'd add to that, in my version. I guess something like: keep things light at first; have other things going on in your life (don't make the girl the center of your existence); don't strain, in any direction (if you're silly, be silly, if you're serious, be serious), be respectful, listen, and go with the flow.

It's amazing I've ever met any women at all.

Ha!

And of course there's, "No one rule or method will work for everyone." That's probably the only thing that can be said with any certainty. Well, that and that girls always love it if, in the middle of a fancy restaurant, you strip naked and start giving gray-haired ladies lapdances.

NOW you tell me!

Nah, I did that, didnt work.

Yeah, but. I dunno how you do that, keep 'em in such strictly separate categories. I mean, with people I meet, I'm more likely to think both: I'd love to kiss her, and: but, she'd also make a great friend to hang around with. Either/or works fine for me, definitely if we're talking first blush/meet - its only later, when feelings are growing, that you might come to feel it has to be the full monty or else you're out.

So there's where Id have a problem with your strategies - I mean, some of the stuff you describe, it could win em over or make em think you're a tw@t, and yeah, sure - if it works: great, if it dont: well she'll buzz off and you just move on to the next one, thats what you're actually saying. But when I meet this girl who seems cute, who's a cool person and quite nice, I dont, first off, really mind what way I get to know her - it's just that I know I'd like to have her in my circle. Yanno? Hanging out or having fun (and yeah <nods to Soz>, meeting her friends) would be cool, and anything else'd just be the cherry on the cake (ahem).

Yeah, thats far more likely to happen for me, anyway, than thinking, oh I wanna get naked with her, and if she's not interested in that, then f*ck her, I move on. So I wouldnt even wanna be looking for a shot at the one thing that, if it backfires, pretty much loses you the other as well. Whereas thats pretty much the whatchamacall it - sine qua non - your whole strategy is based on, isnt it? That you must not care if it turns out she's not charmed by your cocky come-on, cause if thats not what she wants anyway then who cares.

I'm enjoying this thread tho...

That's the problem slappy, if I didn't know you from adam, and came up to be and the first thing you said to me was about the food I was buying or the skirt I was wearing....how in the world am I supposed to know you're kidding?

You know me, you know I have a sense of humor, but really...that stuff is not funny....at all.

Actually, I don't know how it is in Boston, but there are some real nutrition kooks around here, and they are the type who would pick something out of your cart and start explaining in detail why you shouldn't be putting that in your body.

And Christ almighty, woman have enough pressure on them to weight within a certain amount, look a certain way, and so on...and then you give a left handed compliment about her cloths.

I'm not picking on those specific examples per se, but I don't know, that's just not something I'd want a man to say to me first thing. And I don't think any of my female friends would appreciate it either...and we're all intelligent too.

Since you're a salesman, I know you're putting as many lines in the water as you can, knowing something will bite.....Have you ever thought about putting better bait on few hooks? You might surprise yourself and find a fish you don't want to eventually throw back.

Yes and no to nimh.

If you meet a girl, but want to take it slow, fine. Doesn't mean you can't be a flirt, right? But like you said, if you're fine with just being friends, then act like her friend. Even though not always the case, you should still be able to tell fairly quickly whether there's any mutual attraction.

If you think there may be more, don't get in the wussy habits. Keep in touch with her, without being overbearing. Nothing's changed here.

If there's a girl I meet through friends, it's not like I hit on her off the bat, then blow her off completely if she doesn't respond positively.

And sexual tension is a great thing. If you're sensing attraction, you can use this as a powerful tool. You guys are flirting, laughing, she's focusing all her attention on you, touches you..."hey, not so fast! Hands off the goods."

Chai, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. You would know I'm joking. You're focusing too much on specific lines.

The ONLY time I've offended a female with some stupid line, was when it was done on purpose. Never been an issue otherwise.

Do you have a heavy boston accent?

I keep thinking you sound like someone from a Dennis Lehane book.....you'd like him, really, the characters are all from boston, and are always saying clever things like.....


the ****?


he's the author they made a movie out of one of his books, Mystic River.

Have you read him?

My accent really isn't that heavy. At one point I started making a conscience effort to pronounce my r's. Always thought the really thick accent sounded annoying.

Haven't read him. Saw the movie Mystic River though.

Hahaha! That DOES sound like a bit of Lehane dialogue, Chai.

For what it is worth, in response to Nimh, the men in my circles, when they have a period of singleness, almost always end up with one of the friends of the women in our circles...or with a woman they meet via some sort of social activity usually initiated by one of we women.



I really love getting to know a man slowly, too...you know, being social acquaintances, and talking easily, without overdone flirting (ewwww!), and slowly, kapow!

This is an interesting statement. Essentially -- and this is something that a lot of people have, sadly, forgotten -- you usually don't know a person is "the one" after a short period of time. There is or at least there should be a getting to know the other person part of the process. Exclusivity should be a gift given only to people who deserve it. Frankly, if someone threw a ton of money on the table for a first or second or third date, I'd find it suspect and creepy.

One thing that has happened since the 60s or so, since cheap, available birth control, since single parenthood and divorce became more acceptable, since it became easier to be single longer in life, is that people seem to skip the first few dates deal-e-o and head straight to Commitment City in one fell swoop. And then they wonder why it doesn't work out, or why they are attracted to someone else, or why they're getting a divorce early or whatever.

I see a lot of teens coming to A2K and they are all angsty (which is what teens are naturally) about people who they are in relationships with, or want to be or used to be, in relationships with, and they talk about how they "love" them. No, you don't love that person. Chances are extremely good that you do not. Infatuated? Sure. Like very much? Probably. But love? No, probably not (not to say it's not possible). Most people at that stage of existence have little understanding of who or what they are.

And saying you love someone should be something that's nurtured and important and something that takes a while to happen. Something that you are more sure of.

But here we are, modern people, and we leap into bed with each other quickly. And a lot of people confuse that with love or at least with a relationship or even a friendship.

Going from zero to sixty in five seconds is a surefire recipe for heartache. Unless you know you're going to die tomorrow, what's the rush? Sure, if you want to have sex, have sex, but take all necessary precautions and don't confuse it with love or relationships if there's no background to it. And the same is true about the big time date before it's time. I'm not saying that people should not treat one another well (they should!), and I don't believe that that's Slappy's position, either. Rather, special stuff should be for special people, not someone you just met.

When I was doing the Personals scene (several months before I met RP), a few guys brought flowers to the first date. And it was weird. One of the things I asked in my personal ad was, "What would we do on our second date?" This is because I wanted to gauge how men would behave after knowing that very basic compatibility issues were overcome (e. g. I have some attraction to this person, we can have a conversation of more than three words, they're pleasant to be around) and without the big hump of trying to go all out to knock out impress someone. And most people cannot figure that out! It's always dinner and a movie, dinner and a movie. Few people have true creativity in this area. This is a skill that a lot of folks just don't have. But at least it was just dinner and a movie. I would never, ever expect to be wined and dined at the most expensive place, or taken on a vacation, or given something expensive for a first or second date. I'd think you were trying to buy me.

When RP and I met, it was sweet and we got along well. And he did not bring me flowers, and all we did was go out to dinner. But we also talked a lot, and found it was easy. Compatibility that's easy and unforced is just that -- it's the very definition of compatibility. He did not need to buy my affections, and if he had tried, we would not have ended up together.

But I love both dinners and movies... ;-)