Re: The Portrayal of Blacks in Popular Media

Green Witch wrote:

By the way, some email addresses appear on the bottom of the card. They are not mine and I don't know who they belong to. I can't remove them.

Snood - I never saw a Thanksgiving card with any motif that indicated Black people walked this earth and I lived most of that life in NYC. Plenty of Norman Rockwell motifs, but nothing east of 95th St. To me the greeting card industry counts as "media".

I see - and you're right, it certainly is media. But you can find ethnic themed cards in any major bookstore here, and I'm in goldurned Texas.

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snood wrote:

I see - and you're right, it certainly is media. But you can find ethnic themed cards in any major bookstore here, and I'm in goldurned Texas.

American Greetings markets their black-themed cards as "In-Rhythm" and Hallmark has "Mahogany".

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shewolfnm wrote:

The names like Cherokees, Seminoles.. no.. I dont have a problem with.
And here is where I guess I sound like a hyprocrite..

Redskins? yeah.. I do have a problem with that.
That is a racial slang.. that is how the word started.

I do not believe it still has much power over us ( native americans ) anymore.. no where near the power that nigger has over black people.
There is no comparison there.

But- the idea that a word wich was used as an insult is now a team name?
Hmm.. that bugs me.

In 10-20maybe even 30 years will we have a team named Nigger? It was allowed with the word Redskin.. so why not?

honkey and cracker are in the same ball park.
They are unflattering insulting words.

Two hundred years ago "redskin" would fall under your very words - "" I can't imagine a sports team wanting to be called by an unflattering image""

and I think that is a sad thing.
Out of the millions of words in the english language.. or any language for that matter..
why is it ok for a racial slang to be used as a team name?

( not to de rail.. but .. )
I think it is simply because there are not enough Indians around to fight back anymore. So who cares..

This could very well happen for blacks as well.

I accept that "Redskins" is a problem though for me, personally, it does not have negative connotations any more than the Cleveland Indian has negative connotations. I can appreciate that it brings different images to you and others. However unrealistic "Dances With Wolves" might have been, that is the image of Native Americans I hold in my mind and heart, and probably most Americans do hold in their minds and hearts these days. That of course is why that particular movie was so successful. But if the term is uncomfortable or painful for many or most Native Americans, then of course it is inappropriate. My business does put me in associate with a lot of Native American owned and operated businesses in this area, and I certainly would consider it inappropriate to call these folks "redskins". So point well taken.

Also, referring to Setanta's post, the local Chinese folks might not have minded the team being the "Chinks", but I flinched a bit at the word. In my mind it is derogatory and insulting. I found it interesting that there are some who don't see it that way. I can't imagine ever using that term myself.

I guess we all have to pick the hill that's worth defending though. Sometimes it's worth it. Sometimes it's not.

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I flinched at chink too.

in fact, it caught me so off guard that I had to re-read that a few times before I was able to move on.

I wonder , if the chink's mascot had a camera around his neck.. if that would be acceptable as well.

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aidan wrote:

Snood - Have continued reading along. I think the answer has become pretty clear - the majority of the paying public doesn't care if blacks are portrayed realistically in the media because
a)they're not black
b)noone else is portrayed realistically either (as if that's a legitimate reason - scuse me but it smells an awful lot like bullshit to me).

Since b) has almost (but not quite) been my position, let me say for the record:

I think there is a great deal of racism in the world today.

I think that black people are not yet accurately reflected in movies.

I think that should change. More movies should be made by more people displaying more depth, breadth, and nuance.

IN ADDITION TO THAT,

I think that black people are not the only group misrepresented, and I would like to see more movies made displaying more depth, breadth, and nuance of every other misrepresented group, as well. That would include, among many others, Deaf people, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Native Americans, Latinos, and on and on.

I agree with the point that complaint is an important part of social change, and just because things are much better now does not mean things are good enough and should stay as is.

One point that I didn't see picked up on was my comment about the brainy, level-headed black character being a new cliche on children's shows. Interested in thoughts there. (I think it's encouraging, and a necessary pendulum swing, if not an ideal end point.)

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As for "redskins," I'm of the opinion that if any Amerindian seees it negatively, it should not be used. I know there was an issue raised about the Washington Redskins a while back, and that to me was enough to change their name to something else.

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I'm surprised no one here has mentioned Bamboozled (2000) - the Spike Lee film that addresses Snood's concerns.

I didn't see it, but the reviews were varied and interesting.

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JustWonders wrote:

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned Bamboozled (2000) - the Spike Lee film that addresses Snood's concerns.

I didn't see it, but the reviews were varied and interesting.

Robert Townsend did it funnier in Hollywood Shuffle (1987).

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Fox and Wolfwoman may have flinched, but the Chinese community in Peoria didn't flinch. In fact, it had not even been discussed locally until the outside group showed up (i'll not name them, i don't intend to give them fodder for more lawsuit threats). When the issue did come up, the local Chinese community didn't publicly respond, so The Journal-Star and the local television stations had to go out to solicit comments--and those fell largely into two categoris: "It doesn't bother me," and, "Why are you bothering me?"

As for that asinine comment about mascots, i wonder what sort of surreal attitudes Wolfwoman has about life in small town America. My school's team when i was a boy were called the Eagles. We didn't have any fancy logo, we surely couldn't afford to buy an "eagle suit" for some clown to prance around the sidelines during a game. Pekin didn't have any fancy, expensive logo, either. They didn't have somebody dressed up as a "mascot." They just had the name, and had used it for 70 or 80 years without prior comment. I have neither defended nor condemned their use of the word, i've just reported on the issue.

By the way, the image of an Asian with a camera around the neck is a stereotype usually applied to the Japanese, not the Chinese.

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Yep. I saw a Chinese at a flea market once, and he didn't have a camera.

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He wasn't wearin' a green and white Pekin letter jacket, was he?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:

... Most of us are not insensitive to other peoples' feelings, but there comes a time when you simply have to go with what is practical and reasonable even though some would prefer it to be different. The earlier deviation into television and movie codes, for instance, was not off base. Fifty years ago, blacks were generally stereotyped, yes, but stereotyped as maids, porters, news vendors, shoeshine boys etc. This did not 'feel' like stereotyping since the only black people that most white people knew were in fact living those kinds of real life roles.

This did not feel like stereotyping even though it was. Let's see what was Thurgood Marshall doing fifty years ago? News vendor? No, he was getting ready to argue before the US Supreme Court. And was he alone? Nope. There were other black lawyers. Were there black shopkeepers, black machinists, black carpenters, black cops? Oh yeah, and black doctors and black accountants and black art dealers and black funeral parlour owners,and in 1955, not a few black soldiers. It was not a deviation in television and movies. It was deliberate blindness.

Do you know when the first black actress appeared on a US soap opera?
Get ready.... 1967. Of course, she played a maid.

Joe(yeah, a reflection of reality)Nation

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Set, On my recent trip to the Med, I usually had two cameras (digital) hung around my neck. I'm the one that told people "I had to look like a Japanese tourist." Everybody understood and had a good laugh. LOL

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Joe Nation wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Quote:
... Most of us are not insensitive to other peoples' feelings, but there comes a time when you simply have to go with what is practical and reasonable even though some would prefer it to be different. The earlier deviation into television and movie codes, for instance, was not off base. Fifty years ago, blacks were generally stereotyped, yes, but stereotyped as maids, porters, news vendors, shoeshine boys etc. This did not 'feel' like stereotyping since the only black people that most white people knew were in fact living those kinds of real life roles.

This did not feel like stereotyping even though it was. Let's see what was Thurgood Marshall doing fifty years ago? News vendor? No, he was getting ready to argue before the US Supreme Court. And was he alone? Nope. There were other black lawyers. Were there black shopkeepers, black machinists, black carpenters, black cops? Oh yeah, and black doctors and black accountants and black art dealers and black funeral parlour owners,and in 1955, not a few black soldiers. It was not a deviation in television and movies. It was deliberate blindness.

Do you know when the first black actress appeared on a US soap opera?
Get ready.... 1967. Of course, she played a maid.

Joe(yeah, a reflection of reality)Nation

The qualifier is "most people". Fifty years ago, most people did not know a Thurgood Marshall or any black person in a white collar profession. Black people in such positions were the exception rather than the rule. I was not at all referring to the reality in my post, but the perception of most people. Those who did know black people in the white collar professions would not be among those I referred to as "most people". That is why black people portrayed in more menial positions were the norm to most people and I think that's why they were most commonly portrayed that way by a media that was catering to most people in their viewing audiences. It did not 'feel' stereotypical to them. It 'felt like' that's the way things really are.

Similarly, despite how Snood characterized me for whatever he was characterizing me to be, I think most (white) people think of black people in the light of the black people they know and associate with now. For me, I see black people who are pretty much middle class in middle class professions. Maybe most people share my experience and thus it is that which is most commonly portrayed in the media today. And thus it doesn't 'feel' stereotypical to us but 'feels' more like the way it actually is.

If that is evil, then so be it. For me it was purely an observation.

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I always related that particular stereotype (camera)to "Asians" in general. Like the poor driver stereotype.

Seems kind of ponderous and circular to say it was suppose to just belong to one kind of Asian or another, because with stereotypes, the perception all that matters, and aren't those perceptions kind of non-discriminating?

I mean, if one is fearful of young black men in lowhanging jeans and chains, no one's going to care whether the first time that stereotype was applied was to a Cuban or a Grenadan or a West Indian, but just that "those type" make them fearful.

But I digress.

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snood, Not really. I can recall what happened after 9-11 when an Indian was killed in Arizona because somebody mistook him to be Arab/Muslim.

I understand your point.

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The qualifier is "most people".

yes. And apparently the media you describe as catering to those most people was comprised, not of forward thinking and creative talents, but, just like most people, disconnected from black people in general, except for the maids, junkie musicians and out of work elevator operators. In the words of the Church Lady, "How convenient."

Joe(stay comfortable)Nation

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Set, On my recent trip to the Med, I usually had two cameras (digital) hung around my neck. I'm the one that told people "I had to look like a Japanese tourist." Everybody understood and had a good laugh. LOL

You know, CI, such stereotypes are the classic illustration of the fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances. If people happen to see a Japanese who is not carrying a camera, they pay no attention. As soon, however, as they see any east Asian with a camera, they might well say: "See, all those Japanese tourists carry cameras." So, having ignored the previous example, it appears that "Japanese" tourists "always" carry cameras . . .

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snood, Thought you would enjoy the following gem:

Subject: The power of words

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated
like dogs and denied simple human rights? No, I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and
I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality... If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people, they wouldn't have to draft me, I'd join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I'll go to jail, so what? We've been in jail for 400 years.

-- Muhammad Ali in 1967.

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great quote,
thanks for posting that.

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Re: The Portrayal of Blacks in Popular Media

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