Re: The Portrayal of Blacks in Popular Media

Joe Nation wrote:

The qualifier is "most people".

yes. And apparently the media you describe as catering to those most people was comprised, not of forward thinking and creative talents, but, just like most people, disconnected from black people in general, except for the maids, junkie musicians and out of work elevator operators. In the words of the Church Lady, "How convenient."

Joe(stay comfortable)Nation

And maybe, just maybe, for those interested in civil discourse instead of 'gotcha', it is a plausible explanation for the way things were and the way things are re the media. It isn't just 'convenient' to provide a rationale. Nobody is defending the rationale. It is simply an observation. If you have a better one, let's hear it.

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Maybe the problem is that you feel compelled to supply a rationale for that which is simply wrong.

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No, I don't think it is wrong. I think it is spot on accurate. And I still don't think you have read what I said accurately, or I think you might agree.

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One can only react with regard to his or her experiences. Blacks in the movies and on TV--ridiculous portrayals nowhere near reality.

Most of the blacks in the movies and on TV are portrayed as either far above the average black in intelligence or far above the average black in occupation. You see very few blacks who are portrayed as criminals or of limited intelligence.

I worked in a large city school system for twenty years. My particular job enabled me to interact with a range of black people.

Here is what I OBSERVED.

l. Black teachers were just like White teachers except that on the whole they were not as well prepared and certainly less skilled in the basics. Most black teachers could not write a note without spelling two or three common words incorrectly.

(You never see black teachers like that on TV or in the movies)

2. Black principals were similiar. There was a high ranking black( I will never forget this incident) who gave a speech to a group. He referred to a procedure as MANDANTORY several times--MANDANTORY--NOT MANDATORY.. Those of us who heard him wondered how he had gotten so far up in the hierarchy.

3. There were black teachers working who were OUTSTANDING. I would have been very pleased to have any of them teach my children. But they were few in number.

4. The black teachers I made friends with were persons who worked hard, cared for their families and did not demonize all white people as racists.

5. The black teachers I avoided assiduosly were the race carders. Those who carried around copies of Jesse Jackson's "speeches". They were quick to blame "racism" for their lack of advancement when it was obvious they were not prepared.

I met or interacted with at least a thousand black teachers during the twenty years of my tenure.

Hollywood does not dipict them correctly. Neither does TV.

All one has to do to find out PRECISELY what blacks are intellectually is to go to the ACT and SAT test reports. All one has to do to find out EXACTLY what blacks REALLY do in society is to examine the lists of Engineers, Doctors and Lawyers who work in important jobs in our society.

Because some intellectuals have opined that the non-blacks in the USA are personally guilty for the sufferings of black people during slavery, the USA has been put on a guilt-trip which involves political correctness which depicts Blacks as being much more beneficent, assiduous and intellegent AS A GROUP THAN THEY REALLY ARE.

AND NO ONE CAN TELL THE TRUTH. One can be called a son of a b in our society, or a bast... and it will be sluffed off, but no one wants to be ruined in perpetuity by being called a RACIST even though one tells the truth---enough with victimology. Let black people compete as equals with everyone else. No special favors--No special depictions.

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You point out their mistakes like 'mandantory'

But you an obviously superior one, have:

'dipict' for depict

'assiduosly' for assiduously

GWB's SAT of 120 as genius

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It is now 12:20AM. I'll match you whenever you feel like it, talk 72000. Try to address my post and leave the peripheral issues alone.

You can't rebut my post, can you?

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Mortkat wrote:

It is now 12:20AM. I'll match you whenever you feel like it, talk 72000. Try to address my post and leave the peripheral issues alone.

You can't rebut my post, can you?

Speaking of "peripheral issues", what in the hell has your 'world according to Mortkat' babble to do with the title of this thread?

If you want to dissect for public view your profound musings on race relations in the United States from your vast experience, why don't you start another thread instead of further obfuscating this one?

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Im going to take a chance and say that his post IS relevant to this thread.

The way i read and understand it is that he is saying that blacks are NOT represented correctly either..

That, the things that make them human.. just like everyone else-
misspellings,
speech lisps
diffrent rankings in the educational system
having families and busting their behinds to take care of them
being educators
so on and so on
are NOT shown in hollywood.

Blacks in hollywood are either
1) stinking rich , or 2) a criminal.. ( generally speaking)

He could also be saying that, unfortunatly, black people have been some of the lowest to score on basic school tests.

Blacks have hardly ever held a position in society of any power.

Yes they DO HOLD some positions.. but.. compared to the number of available positions of power, blacks have the lowest % when it comes to filling these positions. ( I think... Confused

)

And i beleive that he is also saying, when someone points these things out, things that can be proven by looking at test scores for example, people get called racist.. they get ignored.. ..and can be considered part of the 'race problem'

wich.. I have to agree with.
The person who takes a look around, gathers facts about a race,wether it be black, asian, hispanic.. etc.. are usually attacked as a racist.

Not always.. and that was a HUGE blanket statement with tons of holes.. but im threw it out there anyways.

And you dont see THAT in hollywood.
You dont see the dedicated black teacher, the teacher with thier own family, thier own lives.

You dont see the people who really try to bank on the race card to get them through life so they dont have to lift a finger.

You dont see the nation wide test scores that show blacks are sometimes at the bottom .

and these are how some black people are.
Just like some black people are lawyers, judges, doctors, surgeons, ......
how can hollywood show ALL of that? and do it correctly ?

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shewolfnm wrote:

Im going to take a chance and say that his post IS relevant to this thread.

The way i read and understand it is that he is saying that blacks are NOT represented correctly either..

That, the things that make them human.. just like everyone else-
misspellings,
speech lisps
diffrent rankings in the educational system
having families and busting their behinds to take care of them
being educators
so on and so on
are NOT shown in hollywood.

Blacks in hollywood are either
1) stinking rich , or 2) a criminal.. ( generally speaking)

He could also be saying that, unfortunatly, black people have been some of the lowest to score on basic school tests.

Blacks have hardly ever held a position in society of any power.

Yes they DO HOLD some positions.. but.. compared to the number of available positions of power, blacks have the lowest % when it comes to filling these positions. ( I think... )

And i beleive that he is also saying, when someone points these things out, things that can be proven by looking at test scores for example, people get called racist.. they get ignored.. ..and can be considered part of the 'race problem'

wich.. I have to agree with.
The person who takes a look around, gathers facts about a race,wether it be black, asian, hispanic.. etc.. are usually attacked as a racist.

Not always.. and that was a HUGE blanket statement with tons of holes.. but im threw it out there anyways.

And you dont see THAT in hollywood.
You dont see the dedicated black teacher, the teacher with thier own family, thier own lives.

You dont see the people who really try to bank on the race card to get them through life so they dont have to lift a finger.

You dont see the nation wide test scores that show blacks are sometimes at the bottom .

and these are how some black people are.
Just like some black people are lawyers, judges, doctors, surgeons, ......
how can hollywood show ALL of that? and do it correctly ?

Maybe that was what he was saying shewolfnm, but it sure seemed like he went out of his way to point out how lesser qualified his black peers were to teach, and I don't know why he felt he had to make that point here. It bespeaks sort of an ugly slant on things from Mortkat's POV - delving into the area of racial superior/inferior BS.

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Quote:

and these are how some black people are.
Just like some black people are lawyers, judges, doctors, surgeons, ......
how can hollywood show ALL of that? and do it correctly ?

Let me ask you something, shewolfnm-

Haven't you seen a whole lot more nuance and complexity in white characters than black ones? I mean, its almost a no-brainer, what I am proposing... All I'm submitting here is the idea that there could be more care given to make blacks (and other ethnics) seem like real people. Why is that such a tremendous thing to swallow?

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I absolutly can not argue with you because I completely agree.

That same 'type casting' .. happens in society , with out hollywood ,as well.
People assume.. ( have you seen the movie Crash? ) .. that a black person wont apply themselves in schools, will always listen to rap music, will always speak in slang, will always be a criminal.... you name it.

but.. i am on my way out the door. Im heading to san antonio for a 'late' thanksgiving dinner with my cousin before he is shipped to Korea..

Ill elaborate and post more later.
Have a good day.

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shewolfnm wrote:

That same 'type casting' .. happens in society , with out hollywood ,as well.

Yes -- and that may be one reason why the best Western movies come from Italy. Italians are better at stereotyping Americans than Americans are. As I think I've said before, movies have no business being realistic, or even ethical. Only in the business of telling stories, true or false, good or evil.

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Shewolf writes

Quote:

And you dont see THAT in hollywood.
You dont see the dedicated black teacher, the teacher with thier own family, thier own lives.

I dpn't know if you see it enough, but I somewhat disagree. Among my own movie collection, I have several that do show black people in their family and work environments that includes various professions. Are thereany with all black casts in my collection? No. But realistically, how many people, black or white or other, live totally segregated lives these days?

Snood writes

Quote:

Haven't you seen a whole lot more nuance and complexity in white characters than black ones? I mean, its almost a no-brainer, what I am proposing... All I'm submitting here is the idea that there could be more care given to make blacks (and other ethnics) seem like real people. Why is that such a tremendous thing to swallow?

The principal in "Lean on Me", the cop in "Downtown", the mother in "Sister Act II", almost any Sidney Portier, James Earle Jones, or Danny Glover role, and others all have interesting characters with depth, Real people in real lifelike situations all. I don't know how they could have been made any more 'real' in a medium that isn't good at portraying reality. The leads in "Juwana Mann" (a very funny movie by the way) are characters with great depth and all the complexity and nuances anybody could ask for. Ditto for the black soldiers in "Renaissance Man".

You've made it quite clear you neither appreciate or respect my perspective on this, but it is the only perspective I have experience with. These characters I have described are not that different from my black friends, neighbors, business associates, etc.

Again, if you could give an example of what you wish was happening that isn't, it would be helpful.

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shewolfnm wrote:

I absolutly can not argue with you because I completely agree.

That same 'type casting' .. happens in society , with out hollywood ,as well.
People assume.. ( have you seen the movie Crash? ) .. that a black person wont apply themselves in schools, will always listen to rap music, will always speak in slang, will always be a criminal.... you name it.

but.. i am on my way out the door. Im heading to san antonio for a 'late' thanksgiving dinner with my cousin before he is shipped to Korea..

Ill elaborate and post more later.
Have a good day.

Hey shewolfnm - I live in San Antone. I'm going to a retreat in a little place called Camp Allen for this weekend, but sure would like to meet you.

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Just in the interest of fairness, let me give an example of what I think is a really good TV character:

Chi McBride plays Steven Harper, the principal of Winslow High School in the TV show Boston Public. (Not even sure if this is aired anymore - been watching it in syndication). He is a strong, authoritarian principal who has to learn almost every episode how to temper his 'temper' with diplomacy. He is a rounded character; we've seen controlling and slightly misogynistic tendencies, along with the very decent caring side of someone dedicated to education. The dialogue is excellent, allowing him to have a singular identity as a black man, but not making that limit him from having any frailty or glory any human being might have.

The show always deals with 'explosive' issues, and this admittedly is commercially good sense, but also things that are or should be addressed in the lives of yong adults.

I just earned my bachelors in Education, and while I may not teach after the Army, I know how. This show is thought-provoking, and entertaining - does not insult the intelligence, talk down to you, or go for the demeaning, easy, stereotypical characterization. A great show for teachers (only don't expect the real staff of a high school to be this attractive).

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As I read through some of these post(I didn't commit myself to read all of them) I saw the same basic overriding theme: We know there is not always a proper view of minorities in the media.
What I see is that there are a wide variety of behaviors in all groups. If one were to watch let's say cops, one would assume that all white people are drunks and live in trailer parks and don't know what personal hygene is.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't know how you think this problem can be resolved.
Do movies like "The Color purple," "the Boyz in the Hood," "Roots," etc portray blacks as they are? Do the students in my Philly classrooms portay blaks as they are? How about the Latinos that are in my classes. Do you want the media to portray miorities as they are, or in a positive light. I have lived in small towns and major cities. I have seen people of all ethnic and racial backgrounds. I have seen the best of people and the worst of people. What is it that should be reflected in the media.
As a person two steps removed from Italy, I could very well take offense to movies like "the Godfather," "Wiseguys," and "Casino." I take movies for whaqt they are and for what they aren't.
Should our textbooks in schools be more politically correct? Yea, to a point. But they should not change their validity just to make somebody else feel good.

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You don't know how I think the problem could be resolved?

Hire black writers and producers to help making shows about South Central LA; hire Chicano writers and producers for stories about East LA, don't make comedies about New York City where you only see six black people in a season, don't be terrified of black men as romantic leading roles in interracial stories, don't go for the easily-recognizeable stereotype (see any comedy on UPN) all the time.....

does that help you out any?

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Very good, snood, except I would add that other minorities other than blacks and Chicano be included.

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Snood writes

Quote:

Chi McBride plays Steven Harper, the principal of Winslow High School in the TV show Boston Public. (Not even sure if this is aired anymore - been watching it in syndication). He is a strong, authoritarian principal who has to learn almost every episode how to temper his 'temper' with diplomacy. He is a rounded character; we've seen controlling and slightly misogynistic tendencies, along with the very decent caring side of someone dedicated to education. The dialogue is excellent, allowing him to have a singular identity as a black man, but not making that limit him from having any frailty or glory any human being might have.

Do you not think this analysis would not apply to the examples I posted? If not, why not?

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Thomas wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
If our constitutional right to free speech protects the artist that covers a statue of the Virgin Mary with feces or the one who places a crucifix in a jar of urine, why not the one who represents African-Americans in a racist, negative manner?

I haven't noticed anyone in this thread arguing for pro-black or anti-racist censorship, which would no doubt violate the freedom of speech. I have only seen lots of people who disapprove of racial stereotyping. This is an entirely consistent position.

You're right Thomas, and I am the last person to argue that disapproval is synonymous with censorship, I merely took the discussion a step in a slightly different direction. I know that's something that is never done on A2K, but I, like the artist who draws Boondocks, am a maverick.

Wishing that Hollywood would portray African-Americans in some manner than they currently do is, of course, not the same has imposing one's beliefs on artistic expression, but it's a relatively boring topic as is.

Artists (even the schlock kind) do not have a responsibility to portray any group of people in any particular light. To portray all African-American characters as well rounded , well adjusted and well meaning citizens would be as much of a farce as portraying them all as shiftless, oversexed buffoons.

While certainly true for a long time, I just don't believe that African-American actors are now limited to playing stereotypes, and I think it marginalizes them to suggest that they cannot or should not explore the darker aspects of humanity in their roles for fear that it will cast a dim light on African-Americans in general. Similarly, it seems delusional to suggest that the sort of personality and style of someone like Bernie Mac is not a roughly accurate representation of a certain segment of African-American culture, just as Roseann Barr, and Ray Romano are rough representations of segments of White American culture.

There is an identifiable African-American culture which while not all encompassing is broad enough, and distinct enough to be recognized and portrayed in television shows and movies. Like any other culture it has its strengths and its weaknesses, and as such is just the sort of thing artists like to explore.

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Re: The Portrayal of Blacks in Popular Media

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