World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

I'm one of the people who can enjoy the feel good stories.

There is still an incredible amount of muddle to clear up, but the clean up has started and there is much to do.

Once the refugees are transported to their temporary homes, they're going to need help to settle in--lots of help: Shelter. Food. Clothing. Furniture. Advice about paperwork. Advice about the local mores. Jobs. Transportation.

Many of these people will be deprived of the emotional support of extended families and without informal counseling, they may need professional help.

There are thousands of them. Our local Red Cross reckons that the bill for a burned-out family of four comes to about $1,500--and these people have a local support system, local schools and local jobs.

There are thousands of flooded out families being dispersed to at least 19 states.

The job ahead is monumental--and I'd like to hear a few Feel Good Stories which might inspire all the people who will have to cope.

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mysteryman wrote:

Lets look at a few things people,and try to examine them rationally...
Quote:
Why were they bussed the whole way when Bush was able to ride Air Force One in to an airport not too far from NO?

The people ARE being flown out.
The major air carriers are sending planes into NO to help with the evacuation.
Remember,BOTH airports were under water at one point.
Bush did NOT ride AF1 into the NO area.
He flew into Alabama,and then flew on Marine 1 the rest of the way.
Marine 1 is a helicopter.
The AF sent combat controllers and engineers into one of the airports and got one of them up and running.
As soon as that was done,people started getting flown out,and supplies flown in.

Quote:
Then there was the treatment of the visitors getting to cut into the front of the line at some point, when there were still thousands who'd been waiting at the designated relief center for days, told to wait just a little while longer while these visitors and their luggage were bussed on out ahead of them... The treatment of the citizens was outrageous!!!

You are absolutely right,this is outrageous.
BUT,it was the mayor of NO that did this,not the federal govt.
He made some serious mistakes,and this is just one of them.

Quote:
You think the looting and other nefarious activities are all the fault of the criminals of New Orleans? I don't think so, MA. The situation drove them to such extremes. They had no food, no potable water, no medical supplies, no assistance.

From what I have heard,looting food,water,and other essential supplies is some way legal in NO after a disaster like this.
But,how does that excuse the people taking tv's,electronics,jewelry,and other things not needed for their survival?

1st off, wherever in Alabama AF1 landed, is that closer to the Superdome than the Astrodome? If so, why weren't those poor sick refugees taken there and airlifted to Houston instead of being made to ride a bus the whole way?

2nd, show me where there is proof it was the mayor of NO who decided tourists get cuts in front of other longer-suffering refugees.

2rd, show me where it said that you weren't risking getting shot after dark to go get medical supplies or diapers or whatever amenities were left to loot after the first day. I saw a news video of what looked like a husband/father being handcuffed in front of his wife and children for what appeared to be drier clothes to wear. The wife was begging them not to take her husband away when they'd already lost everything else...

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First off, we can stop using the word "refugees".

They are not refugees. That is insulting and distancing, somehow. Makes them more the 'other' than 'us'.

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Technically sumac, the word originally was used for those who sought refuge. Bit it has evolved to describe people fleeing to another country, so you're right I guess. It's sort of demeaning to have American refugees.

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Diane Wrote:

Quote:

There will be stories of bravery, compassion and selflessness after this is over, which is when those stories will have some meaning.

To report those feel good stories now is overwhelmingly arrogant, even indecent, and could only be suggested by those who proudly live in a world of confident self-righteousness.

It sickens me to read such blatant insensitivity.

I chose your post to respond to because it effected me the most. You don't believe that heroic stories now would have any meaning? I beg to differ. I would like to hear that yes, something is being done, there are those going above and beyond to save others. I suppose it was insensitive to air the feel good stories of 9/11 when it was going on? Don't you realize those feel good stories had a great deal to do with this country banding together?

It's obvious, just from what has been posted in this thread, that all the negativity has just bred more negativity. What would happen if a nationwide disaster of this magnitude happened? Are we to expect the government to come to our rescue? Aren't we supposed to take some responsibility for our own actions? Is it right just because you are in a dire situation to rape women, steal TVs, and shoot at people? I would submit that if that was the attitude of every person in the United States that due to their dire circumstances we would quickly destroy ourselves from within.

I have great compassion for the people in New Orleans. It doesn't matter why they are still there. What matters is they are there and we all need to do our best to get them out. And, they are being brought out! The National Guard is sending troops everyday with food, water, and supplies to those still waiting to get out. People are being rescued from rooftops. Yet, all we hear is how terrible it is that the government didn't do it better or faster.

Diane, if we continually post the negative and none of the feel good stories, by the time the feel good stories come out, who will pay attention to them? The country will be in such turmoil it won't matter. People need hope! They get that hope from the heroism of others. Railing against the government, the President and the Mayor of New Orleans just causes more conflict.

If this had happened during 9/11, Osama Bin Laden would surely have accomplished what he set out to do ~ destroy us from within. Can't you see this is what is happening?

Yes, many mistakes have been made. I agree with that. But, continually pointing them out and focusing on them brings absolutely no hope to anyone. It instills no confidence in any human being. I feel for these people in New Orleans. But, they are being their own worst enemy by acting out the way they are. They have trashed the NO airport. The Superdome is trashed. San Antonio has been trashed. The crime rate in all of Louisiana is going up day by day.

If they do not start taking some responsibility for their own actions, I am afraid that more and more people will finally just want to give up. It's wonderful the country has come together to help them. But, if they keep the attitude up that they are "owed" this and they are being treated the way they are because they are "black and poor" they are turning away those that want to help. Rescuers having to have armed guards for fear they will be raped or killed is totally unacceptable to me.

It does not matter whose fault all this is. What does matter is NOW is the time to start doing the right thing. If every single person in the United States did whatever they could to help, this disaster would quickly turn into something to bring us all together. We all united over 9/11, why not Hurricane Katrina? Because it was a natural disaster and not an act of terrorism? What difference does it make? The point is, there is help needed by our fellow man.

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panzade wrote:

Technically sumac, the word originally was used for those who sought refuge. Bit it has evolved to describe people fleeing to another country, so you're right I guess. It's sort of demeaning to have American refugees.

Refugees is what they are; through no fault of their own, so it's not demeaning IMHO to call them that.
It is no doubt a shock to the whole country to have its own refugees on its own soil, but it won't help to fudge the language.

They desperately need a place of refuge, and food, kindness, and creature comforts- just as any foreign refugees might.

I hope they get it.

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Mamma Angel

Momma Angel wrote:

Dignity, honesty, and restraint? I hardly think so. Telling the government to get off it's butt and saying GD, is not what I call restraint.

He was the one responsible for the city. You have to understand that many did not leave New Orleans because they had been through hurricanes before and just didn't think it would be that bad. They interviewed them right on TV! Now, that's not why all stayed, I realize. But, it doesn't matter. Everyone is responsible for their own actions in any given situation.

The Mayor is ticked now because everyone was at first blaming him for the lack of help. Louisiana politics is a strange thing to behold.

But honor and dignity? You'd get very few here in Louisiana to agree with that one.

Is it possible that your elite attitude results from your economic status? You mentioned in another post that your family runs a business and that you have two rental houses. I don't know what other assets you have, but it's clear, sadly, you have a social class bias and and don't appear to have a clue to how offensive your opinions appear to others.

BBB

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BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Dignity, honesty, and restraint? I hardly think so. Telling the government to get off it's butt and saying GD, is not what I call restraint.

He was the one responsible for the city. You have to understand that many did not leave New Orleans because they had been through hurricanes before and just didn't think it would be that bad. They interviewed them right on TV! Now, that's not why all stayed, I realize. But, it doesn't matter. Everyone is responsible for their own actions in any given situation.

Is it possible that you elite attitude results from your economic status? You mentioned in another post that your family runs a business and that you have two rental houses. I don't know what other assets you have, but it's clear, sadly, you have a class bias and don't have a clue to how offensive your opinions appear to others.

BBB

The Mayor is ticked now because everyone was at first blaming him for the lack of help. Louisiana politics is a strange thing to behold.

But honor and dignity? You'd get very few here in Louisiana to agree with that one.

My elite attitude results from my economic status? I have a class bias? Boy, are you ever off base there!

Economic status? Now, that's funny. We live hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck and right now, we are pretty behind on things. So, our economic status happens to suck right now. And class bias? No way! As a matter of fact BBB, we would probably be considered pretty low on the class scale ourselves. The property we have was left to my husband by his father. Just because we have property doesn't mean we have money. We are trying to sell some of that property because we can't afford to keep up the insurance and taxes on it.

And, I do not run a business! I am the Founder of the Care Angels Network. We are a not for profit, strictly volunteer organization. We have no paid employees. Every penny we get goes to helping others. All supplies used are paid for by the Care Angels individually. We take NOTHING for ourselves. If you would bother to go to Edit [Moderator]: Link removed and read our Mission Statement, perhaps you would have a better idea of what we stand for. And you will notice in capital letters, WE TAKE NO POLITICAL STAND! And we don't. We concern ourselves with the people that need help. Go to the Community Forums on there and register. Become a Care Angel and read the Care Angels Only Forum. You will see exactly what we do and what we have done.

I would suggest you find a bit more about a person before you start accusing them of being biased. This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Know your facts!

Momma Angel

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Moma Angel wrote:

Quote:

What would happen if a nationwide disaster of this magnitude happened? Are we to expect the government to come to our rescue?

THIS WAS A NATIONWIDE DISASTER! It is not regional, nor of a state, or of a city.

And yes, that is precisely what the federal government, through our tax money and the military, is able to do that we can't do.

It is their responsibility.

As revel pointed out:

Quote:

In any event the responsiblity became federal as soon as New Orleans was declared a state of emergency; which was before the levee broke and New Orleans flooded.

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sumac wrote:

Moma Angel wrote:

Quote:
What would happen if a nationwide disaster of this magnitude happened? Are we to expect the government to come to our rescue?

THIS WAS A NATIONWIDE DISASTER! It is not regional, nor of a state, or of a city.

And yes, that is precisely what the federal government, through our tax money and the military, is able to do that we can't do.

It is their responsibility.

As revel pointed out:

Quote:
In any event the responsiblity became federal as soon as New Orleans was declared a state of emergency; which was before the levee broke and New Orleans flooded.

What I meant Sumac, was suppose a Hurricane or storm or deadly disease hit every single state. Then what? The government would not be able to rescue everyone! We would all be in the same boat so to speak. We would all HAVE to take responsibility for our own actions and do something.

Take politics out of this situation. Who is left then to do something? WE ARE!

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Mamma Angel
Mamma Angel, if your economic status is as you say, and I have no reason not to believe you, it makes your earlier statements even harder to understand. The statements represent an elitist attitude I've see all of my life. How did you develop such attitudes?

BBB

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BBB

panzade wrote:

Technically sumac, the word originally was used for those who sought refuge. Bit it has evolved to describe people fleeing to another country, so you're right I guess. It's sort of demeaning to have American refugees.

"Leaders" in the "African-American Community" have complained that using the word "refugee" is demeaning as indicating separateness. I guess that's a reaction to the old "separate but equal."

BBB

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BBB Wrote:

Quote:

Mamma Angel, if your economic status is as you say, and I have no reason not to believe you, it makes your earlier statements even harder to understand. The statements represent an elitist attitude I've see all of my life. How did you develop such attitudes?

BBB

Could you please explain what you mean? Why are my statements hard to understand? What elitist attitude? What attitudes are you talking about?

My attitude is this: We can all do something no matter what our economic status. Some can do more, some can do less. If you have more you can give more. As long as it comes from the heart, that is all that matters.

We offer our homes to those that need them ~ not just during times of disaster. We do it all the time. We don't rent the houses out to make money. Sure, we could, but we don't. We are taking what we do have and trying to help others. Now, if those others were to destroy that property, why would we let them stay and do it? That would only make it impossible for someone else that needs help to be availed of that opportunity. If a dog bites you when you give it a piece of meat, are you going to keep giving it meat?

I would really like to hear your explanation of my attitude. Did you check out that site? I highly doubt it since you still don't understand what I am about.

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Mamma Angel
Mamma Angel, another indication of your elitist attitude is that you continue to post in all of your responses your concern about property damage and the lack of good housekeeping of the people you look down your nose at.

I will continue to label anyone who puts property values about human life as elitist. And anyone that sneers at thousands of people crammed into a nightmare living condition as not having good housekeeping manners is an extreme elitist---and I'm trying to be polite in my description.

BBB

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BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Mamma Angel, another indication of your elitist attitude is that you continue to post in all of your responses your concern about property damage and the lack of good housekeeping of the people you look down your nose at.

I will continue to label anyone who puts property values about human life as elitist. And anyone that sneers at thousands of people crammed into a nightmare living condition as not having good housekeeping manners is an extreme elitist---and I'm trying to be polite in my description.

BBB

BBB, I just don't understand you. You seem to think it's okay for people to become criminals because they are in a dire situation. That's what it appears to be. I do not have an elitist attitude. What I have is an attitude of I help whoever I can, but, if that person takes advantage of that help and does nothing to help themselves and only destroys the help they are given, then I move on and try to find someone else that accepts the help and tries to make their life better because of it. I care nothing about material things. If I did, we'd be renting the property and be making money. I wouldn't be running a NOT FOR PROFIT VOLUNTEER organization to help any and all in need of help.

So, if you were in NO would you be stealing TVs, raping women, and shooting at those trying to rescue you?

Let me ask you, just what are YOU PERSONALLY doing to help those in NO? How many families live in your home because they lost everything? How many truckloads of supplies have you taken to the Red Cross to help them? I mean you personally BBB. I have people from all over the United States sending boxes to me to get to those in need.

And don't worry about being polite in your description. I can read very well what you mean. You are not correct in any of your assumptions about me or what I do.

This is the way I am:

God and others first, me last.

I can't explain it any better than that.

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Terry Schiavo - Congress acts in one day
Katrina - Congress acts in five days

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Mamma Angel
Mamma Angel, I never continue to debate with someone who cannot or will not open their mind to another's pointe of view.

If you don't understand the points I'm trying to politely make, you probably never will.

So lets agree to move on to bugging someone else. :wink:

BBB

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Momma angel, I admire your charitable works. I am sure that are a lot of us who have volunteered or contributed to charity in this crises and through out the year.

However that is not the point. The point is that it is the job of Homeland Security which FEMA is now under to oversee these things. It is the responsibility of the federal Government to take control of the declared disaster areas and control the looting and violence and get help to the people. This is their job and what we pay taxes for them to do. They are doing better than they were at the beginning. They were slow in getting organized, even the President admitted as much. After 9/11 and everything we should have been better prepared as a nation to handle the aftermath of the hurricane.

Also I imagine the raping and the shooting has been made too much of. I bet for the most part people were looting for food and water after doing without any for four days.

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BBB Wrote:

Quote:

Mamma Angel, I never continue to debate with someone who cannot or will not open their mind to another's pointe of view.

If you don't understand the points I'm trying to politely make, you probably never will.

So lets agree to move on to bugging someone else.

BBB

Right. You accuse me of being something I am not. I explain what I am. You refuse to acknowledge any of it. I don't do what I do for the glory. There is no glory. I do it because it is the right thing to do. I ask you to explain you and what do I get? Let's move on? Fine, I get that a lot. And USUALLY (not in all cases, but most) it is from those that are doing nothing but complaining about the situation and not trying to find solutions to the problems.

Revel,

I have no problem with those looting food and water! I do have a problem with those stealing TV sets and other material objects.

And no, it has not been made way too much of concerning the rapes. Women were being raped in the convention center right in front of people! Why could not the thousands that were not doing it jump on the rapists and put a stop to this? If some had the energy to steal TVs and rape women they surely had enough energy to stop those doing it.

The people of flight 93 were heroes because they put the common good of mankind above their own lives. The people in the Convention Center just turned a blind eye to those being taken advantage of. All I am saying is, no matter what the given situation, each person is responsible for their own actions.

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Mamma Angel

Momma Angel wrote:

BBB Wrote:

Quote:
Mamma Angel, I never continue to debate with someone who cannot or will not open their mind to another's pointe of view.

If you don't understand the points I'm trying to politely make, you probably never will.

So lets agree to move on to bugging someone else.

BBB

Right. You accuse me of being something I am not. I explain what I am. You refuse to acknowledge any of it. I don't do what I do for the glory. There is no glory. I do it because it is the right thing to do. I ask you to explain you and what do I get? Let's move on? Fine, I get that a lot. And USUALLY (not in all cases, but most) it is from those that are doing nothing but complaining about the situation and not trying to find solutions to the problems.[/[/u]quote]

I wouldn't go there, if I were you. As I said, I'm moving on to avoid getting this thread locked.

Bye

BBB

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World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

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