World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

you can't help people when making fund-raising speeches for the RNC.

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Anyway, speaking of world reaction ... You might be interested to know of the reaction to the announcement by the Oz government of $10 million dollars for the relief of Katrina victims. ABC listeners (in Melbourne) responded in the following ways in talkback:

* Quite a number objected to any government financial support, what-so-ever, saying that the US government should divert resources from Iraq. These folk argued that they'd already financially supported an invasion of an innocent country - & that Australians had overwhelmingly opposed that invasion. They felt that the US government already had the finances & resources to cope with post-Katrina damage, which they were wrongfully employing in Iraq.

* There was quite a deal of anger in response to that argument <above>. Many callers argued that above all, those being hurt by Katrina were innocent people, with no connection to their government's political words & actions. And that there was no difference is supporting US citizens in times of disaster, than any other country we've recently (generously) supported.

* Many callers expressed shock that all the folk in difficulty appeared to be black! Why was this so, they asked? Others expressed shock & disbelief at the degree of poverty in a US city like New Orleans, which theyed just learned about through coverage of the hurricane aftermath.

* A number said they would personally contribute to the Red Cross relief. fund.

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So, Bush himself was the one man rescue squad...

This is too stupid for people who are supposed to be so smart.

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Well, you're probably not going to like what I have to say but I am going to say it anyway.

I live in Louisiana. I know what is going on here. The levees are being repaired in New Orleans. People are being evacuated. Water and supplies have been delivered to those in the Convention Center. The superdome is nearly evacuated. The National Guard finally has the unrest under control.

Now, all we hear on the news is how everyone messed up. Well, maybe mistakes were made, I'm sure there were mistakes made.

But, the mayor ordered a MANDATORY evacuation for everyone. Busses were provided and yet many refused to leave. Now, I feel sorry for anyone in this type of situation. But, when they constantly ask for help and it finally gets there and they say, hell no, I'm not glad it's here. We should burn this *&*^ city down, what are we supposed to do?

They are shooting at medical helicopters. The police are turning in their badges. Women are being raped.

There are so many helping these people. Where is the news about this? Where is it said that all the churches and schools in Northern Louisiana are being used for shelter for evacuees? State Farm donated their massive building that will hold 2,000 to 3,000 people for the evacuees on a longterm basis. Where is the good news?

Now, Celin Dion is on Larry King saying she donated $1M but those people don't need money they need water. Well, the National Guard delivered truckload after truckload of water yesterday, today, and will keep doing it.

Let's be fair, people. There are good things going on too. I for one, am embarrassed by the looting, raping, and shootings. I am embarrassed by Mayor Nagin. He could not get the people out of New Orleans and now he wants the Governor to give him the authority to retake the city? Oh, pah-leeze.

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Lash wrote:

You're a teacher. Surely you can read. There were no links, just facts, for those who want to know them. I'm beginning to see that doesn't apply here.

I won't waste my time.

Yes, I'm a teacher & yes, I can read. Very Happy

But I still go back to my previous post ... <sigh> I think there was enough known PROIR to the disaster that huge amounts of assistance would be needed. It's amazing that the situation is still so precarious for so many people trapped there NOW. Still.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I am embarrassed by Mayor Nagin.

Why? I thought he spoke with dignity, honesty & restraint.

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Lash wrote:

So, Bush himself was the one man rescue squad...

This is too stupid for people who are supposed to be so smart.

actually true statement there lash, it takes real teamwork to fuc*k up this bad. Let's look at it this way, the MSM reported 24/7 for three days prior to Katrina hitting about the potential damage and yet both FEMA and Homeland Security, 2 days after were still saying "we never expected to see this much damage" while they were busy getting face time glad-handing and back-slapping each other for "great job." Unfortuately this event wil go down in history as the event that defines Bush's presidency, the single major black-eye while, when the truth does out this event is only secondary to the Iraq war as Bush's blunder. The real eye-opener is that Bush now knows be blew it, heads will roll but the image will remain. Bush guessed wrong.

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Defensive postures often include blinders.

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Dignity, honesty, and restraint? I hardly think so. Telling the government to get off it's butt and saying GD, is not what I call restraint.

He was the one responsible for the city. You have to understand that many did not leave New Orleans because they had been through hurricanes before and just didn't think it would be that bad. They interviewed them right on TV! Now, that's not why all stayed, I realize. But, it doesn't matter. Everyone is responsible for their own actions in any given situation.

The Mayor is ticked now because everyone was at first blaming him for the lack of help. Louisiana politics is a strange thing to behold.

But honor and dignity? You'd get very few here in Louisiana to agree with that one.

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How many black people do you have in Oz, Olga?

Are their average incomes equal to the caucasian Australians? Would you say they are about 67% of one of your largest cities? What city is that? How do you think your major urban city, previously described, would fare after a Category 4 hurricane and then being filled with water that just stays there? Teach us a lesson. Who would be left there? Would your people evacuate as told? Why? Why not? Describe your scenario.

Why do people in your country think the black citizens were the ones in the city after the mandatory evacuation?

If one knows help will be needed, that is why they order a mandatory evacuation. Otherwise, what should we have done--stockpile food and water before the storm, for it to be swept away with the flood?

Just tell me something to convince me you're not just finding fault because you want to. Just because a lot of US haters or Bush haters are trying to find fault doesn't mean you should.

If you think this couldn't happen to you, think again.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Dignity, honesty, and restraint? I hardly think so. Telling the government to get off it's butt and saying GD, is not what I call restraint.

He was the one responsible for the city. You have to understand that many did not leave New Orleans because they had been through hurricanes before and just didn't think it would be that bad. They interviewed them right on TV! Now, that's not why all stayed, I realize. But, it doesn't matter. Everyone is responsible for their own actions in any given situation.

The Mayor is ticked now because everyone was at first blaming him for the lack of help. Louisiana politics is a strange thing to behold.

But honor and dignity? You'd get very few here in Louisiana to agree with that one.

In the circumstances he was in, yes, dignity, honesty & restraint. Also he sounded refreshingly honest & straight forward.

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WHAT do people really know about New Orleans?

link

Quote:

Do they take away with them an awareness that it has always been not only a great white metropolis but also a great black city, a city where African-Americans have come together again and again to form the strongest African-American culture in the land?

Quote:

Which is why so many New Orleanians, black and white, never went north. They didn't want to leave a place where they felt at home in neighborhoods that dated back centuries; they didn't want to leave families whose rounds of weddings, births and funerals had become the fabric of their lives. They didn't want to leave a city where tolerance had always been able to outweigh prejudice, where patience had always been able to outweigh rage. They didn't want to leave a place that was theirs.

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Hey Lash!

Great to see you! And I love what you just posted there.

Most of the people left in New Orleans were black, it's true. But, New Orleans has a black population nearly three times that of whites.

And I totally agree about the stockpiling. They didn't even know if the Superdome would hold when they let those people in there. It was the only place big enough for all of them.

Complaining about who did what wrong is not helping anyone. Have you seen what the the evacuees have done to the New Orleans airport? Trashed it. Trashed the Superdome. Wasn't enough trashing done by the hurricane itself? These people need to band together and help each other and they aren't.

Have you seen what they did to San Antonio? The people of the nation are opening up their homes and hearts to these people. Our crime rate jumped overnight here. And yes, it was evacuees commiting the crimes. Can't they understand if they don't start acting a bit better people are going to stop wanting to help them?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Well, you're probably not going to like what I have to say but I am going to say it anyway.

I live in Louisiana. I know what is going on here. The levees are being repaired in New Orleans. People are being evacuated. Water and supplies have been delivered to those in the Convention Center. The superdome is nearly evacuated. The National Guard finally has the unrest under control.

Right on top of things, are ya Momma Angel? That's good to hear. Ya want the dirt, the lowdown, get it from Momma Angel. She's sitting up there in Hodge, Jackson County, Louisiana, almost as far away from New Orleans as one can get without settin' foot in Arkansas. Shocked

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Here's something interesting to view.
Google satellite pics of Katrina aftermath

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duplicate

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Lash wrote:

How many black people do you have in Oz, Olga?

Are their average incomes equal to the caucasian Australians? Would you say they are about 67% of one of your largest cities? What city is that? How do you think your major urban city, previously described, would fare after a Category 4 hurricane and then being filled with water that just stays there? Teach us a lesson. Who would be left there? Would your people evacuate as told? Why? Why not? Describe your scenario.

Why do people in your country think the black citizens were the ones in the city after the mandatory evacuation?

If one knows help will be needed, that is why they order a mandatory evacuation. Otherwise, what should we have done--stockpile food and water before the storm, for it to be swept away with the flood?

Just tell me something to convince me you're not just finding fault because you want to. Just because a lot of US haters or Bush haters are trying to find fault doesn't mean you should.

If you think this couldn't happen to you, think again.

I really don't want to get into a YOU vs US debate, Lash. Yes, there are black people in Oz who live in frightful poverty. It is shameful & wrong. Yes, it's true. I've posted about this on other A2K threads. But that isn't really what we're discussing here. I posted about AbC radio talkback in the context of the topic of this thread.

I honestly don't know if an event of such terrible magnitude happened here how different the response would be. You don't know until if happens, do you? But I know one thing for certain, there would definitely be a public backlash in response to so many avoidable deaths & so much misery & pain by so many if there was a perception that some, at least, could have been avoided by more timely & effectual government action.

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Hi Momma.

I have to say I understand the trashing for the most part. The situation was so sick.

But, these people who don't know anything about NO need to read up or shut up.

The murder rate was TEN TIMES the national average. That place is, was and if the residents return, always will be an epic shithole.

The PD is one of the most notoriously corrupt in the country.

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msolga wrote:

Yes, there are black people in Oz who live in frightful poverty. It is shameful & wrong. Yes, it's true. I've posted about this on other A2K threads. But that isn't really what we're discussing here.

Quote:
It is EXACTLY hat we're discussing. You would be in the SAME position. Why point a finger at someone who mirrors your own situation.

I honestly don't know if an event of such terrible magnitude happened here how different the response would be. You don't know until if happens, do you?

Quote:
A good reason to withhold judgement
.

But I know one thing for certain, there would definitely be a public backlash in response to so many avoidable deaths & so much misery & pain by so many if there was a perception that some, at least, could have been avoided by more timely & effectual government action.

Quote:
If the backlash occurred after we were sure there were unavoidable deaths--or if due to choices people made, they died. A little fairness and rationality is all many people want.

Not a "debate". I just wish people would really think about what they're saying.

Don't feel compelled to respond if you don't feel like it.

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Let me throw my hat in a "political debate" just once...

I am in no way a Bush supporter.
But I do not agree with all of the **** being flung at him saying this is all his fault. What the hell? He didnt create a hurricane.
What he hasnt done can be stacked on top of many things. Everyone can debate that.
YES. people are dying. YES this could have been handled MUCH diffrent.
YES there is a problem when the president isnt addressing issues such as this when he is on 'vacation' .. Rolling Eyes

( great timing that was, jack-hole)
I can, and so can others, go on and on and on about " Bush didnt do this, and Bush isnt doing that..

Take the focus away from Bush for one second because even if he was the ' man of war and strength' he wants to be .. >sigh<
What would make people happy? Seeing him on a little boat floating around the city personally saving lives ? Then people would bash him calling him a 'glory monger'. But he isnt. even if he WOULD, he could only save a few people. Would this right the situation? No
he has deployed help.. though spread paper thin.
Now those people who are helping are being shot at, attacked and have to be safe themselves. They can not rush into millions of gallons of water and be effective. They have to stay ALIVE... and unfortunatly that means they have to be safe, SLOW , and effective.
We would all like to think that the national guard can just fly over and resuce everyone and all will be well in 24 hours.
Not happening.
These people are terrified and are in a state of riot.
If the national guard, red cross... and who ever else is there ,started randomly dropping food people would kill each other for it. They would hoard and fight . Then who gets it? Only the strong? And guess what would happen then? The same thing that is happening now .. Bush would be blamed.
" Well YEAH people are gonna hoard... Bush should have had it dropped sooner....."
True.. but he nor anyone else can control human fear and the fight to survive.
On top of that.. everyone seems to forget there are MILLIONS of gallons of water IN THE WAY. Trucks can only get so far.
helicopters can not see roof tops because of fallen trees and debris.
What would have been a safe place to land BEFORE is now unknown because the conditions of these buildings is questionable.
What are they supposed to do?? This is millions of acres covered with twice as much water. Most of us can not wrap our brains around the size of this disaster.

The disaster isnt his fault.
His actions are a day late and a dollar short.
But even with all the dollars he can/should / could designate to this disaster it does little. Water IS IN THE WAY of even the most expencive rescue efforts. Human fear IS IN THE WAY of even the biggest rescue crowd. This disaster is enormous. Almost uncomprehendable even to those still stuck on their roof tops.

Alot of the simple solutions at this point fall into the hands of americans.
As momma angel said.. there are thousands of people doing very selfless deeds right now. But they dont make the news.

Simple solutions would be greyhound - donating busses
Cruise ships - ferrying people out
Normal every day people- giving spare rooms, clothes , food, everything they can
Grocery stores- swallowing the cost and giving food and bottled water
Large corporations - matching donations from employees
Real estates- donating houses, apts , condos for homeless victims
Construction companies- donating MAN POWER and supplies to build make shift temporary shelters
Home building supply shops- dontaing supplies..

the list can go on and on.
Instead of placing the blame of thousands of people on the shoulders of one inadequate person, we as a nation need to swallow the cost and do something. Stop waiting for a green light to give our time and effort and stop playing the blame game.
Get off your ass and do something. Bush wont.

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World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

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