World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

Momma Angel - an observation.

You may seek compromise here because the idea of harmony is important to you. Nothing wrong with that. But given the nature of A2K and the nature of people who bother to come here and read posts and to debate, albeit in an asynchronous manner, various issues, you aren't likely to see too much compromise. In fact there's more bare knuckle debating here than at your average university debating club. But we're all volunteers.

In your desire to see compromise be careful that you're not interpreted as forcing compromise. If you don't like point to point debating then A2K's politics forums will disappoint you. Regardless of your disappointment nothing will change here. It will go on. It's a necessary part of human nature to disagree. It's unwise to force agreement or compromise or smother countering opinions. It breeds resentment. It hints at censorship.



John Milton - Areopagitica - a great speech in a favourite text of mine and still instructive.

goodfielder

everyone is answering for a person rather than the person that's being questioned - makes a lot of sense to me??

Goodfielder,

Point taken and thank you.

I thought I would share this with everyone. I received this awhile ago and found it very interesting. I do not know whether it is 100% true or not. I do, however, know that today, Governor Blanco finally relinquished to the President and the Federal Government to take charge. So, perhaps there is some truth to it. I just found it interesting.
From a freind in MS Roy Fletcher who was former Governor Mike Foster's political advisor has already called for the impeachment and indictment of Governor Blanco.

Regards to all,


Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 3:19 PM

Subject: If this is true, Blanco needs to be exposed, this should not be answered.

On Friday night, August 26, 2005 before the Hurricane hit, Max Mayfield for the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin of New Orleans and Louisiana Governor Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act).

Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up.

He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet.

After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday, August 27, before the Hurricane hit, the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.

After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations.

Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding. As we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning, though the document implies that they were.

The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Governor Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday, August 31, which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states.

Or maybe ask why Mayor Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.

For god's sake, MA, you just got slammed in another thread for posting this unsubstantiated tripe, so you come over here to post it?

You really are desparate to see your idiot-child idol in the White House exculpated, aren't you?

boss better take a chill pill - got slammed lol I never saw such a thing

Now Set,

You be nice. Did I not say I could not say it was 100% true? Didn't I say I was just interested in what others had to say?

I just find it ironic that all this time so many blaming Bush and yet something might actually shift that somewhere else and then "we" get "how does that help the victims?" Isn't that what I had been saying all along?

You've always played fair with me Set. I don't want to see that change.

No husker - I wasn't answering the question Momma Angel put, I was making an observation.

Having said that I feel no particular constraints from asking a question if it's asked and if it piques my interest. I know that might be seen by some as being a bit cheeky, perhaps even rude, but I can always be ignored (that's a useful form of social control in discussion forums).

Besides answering a question for someone else can be great fun - particularly if one is getting between lash and set

Set was always nice to me until to today also and now he's calling me names

Squinny was the one out of line.

Don't tell what to do.



You contend that i've reacted to an attempt to exculpate Bush by responding "how does that help the victims?" Because if you are, that's a lie. I've never said any such thing.



And you think it unfair to point out that you posted that once somewhere else, were criticized for having no reliable source, and therefore get taken to task for trying to spread propaganda futher? If you had decent support for this contention, you'd have good reason to take umbrage. But when you post unsubstantiated rumors which entail a charge of criminal negligence against a public official, you can expect criticism--and that's fair.

Then you've been noticed. Enjoy the attention.

Squinney "out of line"? What does that mean? That Squinney made a point?

If it's a breach of the rules notify a moderator and that should fix that.

nite boss
see ya in 10 hours

That's right, i called you Big Mouth, in a different thread, after you posted: ". . . everyone else on your team here has been playing the blame game and I'm tired seeing the same old twisting of crap by you guys."

You get nasty with me, i get nasty right back.

Husker--



What are you talking about? Squinny is out of line for having an an opinion?

Further, Mama Angel told me I was out of line for having an opinion about her attempt to try to enforce a consensus on A2K.

The two of you are not giving vocal Christians a good name tonight.

Momma Angel wrote:



Set Wrote:



It was meant in jest, Set.

Momma Angel Wrote:



Set Wrote:



Actually, this is what you did say. I misquoted. I apologize.

Set Wrote:



And yes, I did get it confused with another thread and for that I also apologize.

Momma Angel Wrote:



Set Wrote:



Set, that is exactly why I stated that I didn't have anything to substantiate it and that I couldn't guarantee it was 100% accurate. I merely said I found it interesting and perhaps others might also. Now, it is a fact, and even you have got to agree, that those that do not care for Bush have been complaining about his handling of the Katrina situation throughout. All I asked was, if there was any truth to this, what kind of effect would it have on those that believe Bush is largely at fault. Those that support Bush interpret things differently just as those that do not support Bush do.

I did not feel slammed for posting that in the other thread. Now, this thread is a different story. But slammed? I don't feel slammed. If this is an unfounded rumor than what is the harm? If I had stated this was the honest to goodness truth that would have been different, but I did not. I did say there is someone checking into this to see if it can be substantiated. I also said that Governor Blanco did yield to the President and the Federal Government today and I have that on good authority but will get the link to that as soon as my friend wakes up.

Noddy Wrote:



I merely pointed out that we had all reached a compromise and you stirred the pot again. And yes, as Goodfielder pointed out to me, that is to be expected and it is your right. So, out of line? No. I just didn't understand why when a compromise had been reached by the others someone else came in and broke it. No harm, no foul.

Not giving vocal Christians a good name tonight? I don't see how that is the case. If I had posted that thing was the truth then yes, I would not be being a good Christian. I offered it to get some feedback on whether it would change the way anyone felt or not IF IT WERE TRUE.

I don't feel I have veered from my Christianity by stating my views without belittling. If anyone took anything I posted as belittling then please tell me so I can address that. Noddy, you have dealt with me before and you know I do not condone that kind of thing in anyone, especially myself. If I have done this, please give me the opportunity to apologize.

But for now, I am off to bed. Everyone have a good night and sweet dreams!

Sweet dreams, Mama Angel.

Thank You Noddy. That was very kind of you! Now, I am really off to bed. The cats had me serving them all a snack first! Demanding little creatures they are!

You know, Momma Angel, that is a mighty detailed, step-by-step description of Governor Blanco's behavior to be just introducing as something you are not sure of.

Generally, when we are not sure of something, we might say, "I just heard a rumor that ......" and it will be very short.

The more we go into details of a situation, the more we imply that the story is true. For if the poster seems sure of the details, how can they not be certain the details are factual? Your account is rich in details-Blanco did this, Blanco did that, Bush was trying to do this and that-that the reader is led to believe that this was not just a possible theory but an actual account of what happened.

It looks for all the world that you slipped in a mandatory disclaimer at the start, then hoped the reader would forget it as you gave a detailed scenario about how Blanco and Nagin were supposed to be responsible and Bush supposedly had his hands tied.

I see no conflict, quite the contrary in fact, in bashing Bush while trying to help America.