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Further Discussion About Covid-19 and the Covid-19 Crisis 2020

 
 
JGoldman10
 
  1  
Mon 27 Apr, 2020 09:43 pm
Some people I know suggested I produce toons and/or comics themed around the Covid-19 crisis. I thought about doing that but I don't think that's appropriate and in good taste.
chai2
 
  4  
Mon 27 Apr, 2020 10:10 pm
@JGoldman10,
Especially because you have no concept of what is going on
glitterbag
 
  2  
Mon 27 Apr, 2020 10:12 pm
@chai2,
Let me know when it's over, please.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Mon 27 Apr, 2020 10:18 pm
@glitterbag,
It's Over, performance by Roy Orbison
Not sure if he was "saved" or not or cannot if maybe he just got rapturously raptured). Does anyone know the answer??????? PLEASE HELP!!!!

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 09:35 am
https://i.imgur.com/ewEMm3f.png
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 09:54 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/ewEMm3f.png

It's a scary experiment in liberty. The theory of liberty is that people can be free and that they will exercise personal responsibility to minimize risk.

What tends to happen due to the authoritarian culture of trusting government, is that many people think that if the government allows all these businesses to open, then it must be safe, and if it's not, then it's government's fault and they can/should be blamed.

Some people would even go so far as to subject themselves to risk in hopes of being able to file lawsuits and making money off when anything bad happens in a situation that hasn't been prohibited.

Well, the principle of liberty allows for people to make their own decisions and face the consequences for doing so. That means a governor can make his own decision for his own household and allow other people to also decide for themselves whether to open or not and whether to go out.

The problem is there is competitive pressure in the economy. So if some business opens and is making money while you keep your business closed to avoid risk, that business makes all the money that you would have made if you had opened. And that puts pressure on people to keep up with the economy, even if they think it is wiser to stay closed and avoid the risk.

So is it possible for a free market to exist where individuals can put other interests, such as health and safety, over the interest of making money? Or will people always risk their lives, health, and the lives/health of others in order to make money and keep up in the rat race?

And if they can't resist the temptation to take the risk and make the money, is it government's job to protect them from themselves and each other by enforcing closures and otherwise making people all stay home?
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:09 am
I vividly remember a time in this country that if you tested positive for HIV the people clamored for you to lose your job....but it was okay in some peoples book to strip some people of their liberty.....but not them, no they have to parade around with automatic weapons demanding to go the Cheesecake Factory, or bowling or whatever else they do that's more important than my grandchildren's lives. And it's a sharp looking group, as Trump would say "The Best People".
livinglava
 
  -3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:36 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

I vividly remember a time in this country that if you tested positive for HIV the people clamored for you to lose your job....but it was okay in some peoples book to strip some people of their liberty.....but not them, no they have to parade around with automatic weapons demanding to go the Cheesecake Factory, or bowling or whatever else they do that's more important than my grandchildren's lives. And it's a sharp looking group, as Trump would say "The Best People".

The problem is that you're attributing collective blame for the HIV-discrimination. You can't assume it is the exact same people who discriminated against HIV that now want freedom to ignore COVID19.

You may be right that some of the people are the same, but when you ascribe collective blame, you're lumping in all individuals with a certain identity, e.g. bowling patrons who eat at the Cheesecake Factory and have automatic weapons, with HIV-discrimination.

Also, you're implying that if there was discrimination against people with HIV then it is legitimate to retaliate by discriminating against people who could be carrying COVID19; but that is completely illogical since HIV was/is not airborne while COVID19 is. So discrimination makes sense to stop the spread of COVID19 in ways that were not warranted for HIV.

So while I understand what you are saying about HIV discrimination being wrong, it really has nothing to do with COVID19, even though it was a virus and epidemic as well.

Basically you're just angry about homophobia, maybe rightly so, but as a result you're trying to scapegoat and discriminate further.
Rebelofnj
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:43 am
@glitterbag,
I just finished reading And The Band Played On, about the early years of the AIDS epidemic, and it is depressing to read about the hysteria you described and the rise of homophobic attacks in a misguided attempt to stop the spread of AIDS.

There was that one case of a student getting expelled from school because he tested positive for AIDS via blood transfusion, and parents were making efforts to make sure the student couldn't get back into school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White
RABEL222
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:43 am
@glitterbag,
Wake up Glitter. Big business making money is much important than the lives of a few 10's of thousands of Americans. Vote republican to continue the pandemic for eternity.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:49 am
@Rebelofnj,
Rebelofnj wrote:

I just finished reading And The Band Played On, about the early years of the AIDS epidemic, and it is depressing to read about the hysteria you described and the rise of homophobic attacks in a misguided attempt to stop the spread of AIDS.

There was that one case of a student getting expelled from school because he tested positive for AIDS via blood transfusion, and parents were making efforts to make sure the student couldn't get back into school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White

Blood is taken a lot more seriously now than it was at the time HIV/AIDS was new.

It makes you wonder whether this new pandemic social-distancing culture could really take root and become the new normal.

In 30 years we might no longer worry about who has COVID19 or any other virus because we will have developed cultural behavioral and economic norms that work as universal precautions, similar to the way blood is treated in the age of HIV/AIDS.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:51 am
@livinglava,
Oh for Christ's sake, spare me your analysis's. When Polio was ravaging the country people responded, they quarantined, they were scrupulous avoiding infection......Agree the demonization of HIV was fueled by homophobia, but also because of stupidity. That's what is happening again, not the identical people from the 80's, but that unique characteristic of entitlement and stupidity that seems to be passed down from other entitled and stupid people.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:52 am
@Rebelofnj,
I remember that case, that child was tormented until the day he died.
0 Replies
 
Rebelofnj
 
  2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:01 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
That's what is happening again, not the identical people from the 80's, but that unique characteristic of entitlement and stupidity that seems to be passed down from other entitled and stupid people.


Oh, yes. The book goes into detail on both characteristics.

The CDC was having a petty feud with the National Cancer Institute, and both didn't want to work with the Pasteur Institute in France; this squabble, as well as lack of funding, delayed any progress in identifying the cause of AIDS.

Plus, the blood banks had outright denied that AIDS can be contracted through blood transfusion, despite mounting evidence and hundreds of people infected.

The end of the book summed up what happened overall:
"The United States, the one nation with the knowledge, the resources, and the institutions to respond to the epidemic, had failed. And it had failed because of ignorance and fear, prejudice and rejection."
livinglava
 
  -1  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:05 am
@Rebelofnj,
Rebelofnj wrote:

Quote:
That's what is happening again, not the identical people from the 80's, but that unique characteristic of entitlement and stupidity that seems to be passed down from other entitled and stupid people.


Oh, yes. The book goes into detail on both characteristics.

The CDC was having a petty feud with the National Cancer Institute, and both didn't want to work with the Pasteur Institute in France; this squabble, as well as lack of funding, delayed any progress in identifying the cause of AIDS.

Plus, the blood banks had outright denied that AIDS can be contracted through blood transfusion, despite mounting evidence and hundreds of people infected.

The end of the book summed up what happened overall:
"The United States, the one nation with the knowledge, the resources, and the institutions to respond to the epidemic, had failed. And it had failed because of ignorance and fear, prejudice and rejection."

Do you see how what you write here propagates three ideas:
1) international cooperation is important
2) funding shouldn't be lacking
3) The US as a nation fails

All these points just propagate the idea that the US should put more funding into international cooperation that, implicitly, will send more people with money abroad to spend it.

I don't know if you're aware that you're propagating this idea or not, but to me it seems very transparent and I question why you wouldn't recognize how biased your own view is toward issues of national-level funding and international cooperation.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:07 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Wake up Glitter. Big business making money is much important than the lives of a few 10's of thousands of Americans. Vote republican to continue the pandemic for eternity.


I temporarily lost my mind. She who dies with most toys wins.
0 Replies
 
Rebelofnj
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:32 am
@livinglava,
The lack of funding I mentioned was related to the Reagan Administration's economic policies in an effort to control government spending and reduce funding in domestic programs.

Plus, there is criticism that the Reagan administration and the New York City government under mayor Ed Koch didn't respond quickly enough to stopping the spread of AIDS and educating the public on prevention methods.
revelette3
 
  3  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:48 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
but that is completely illogical since HIV was/is not airborne while COVID19 is


Actually, the means the virus spreads this disease is not really known even today. There is controversy on whether this Pandemic can be airborne. At first, it was thought only to be spread through tiny particles when people cough and sneeze etc. but, since people without symptoms have been spreading the disease, it may be spread by the very tiny particles which are spread when you talk.

COVID-19 may spread through breathing and talking — but we don't know how much

Actually, the gay community is still being discriminated against. I read a piece one day, who knows what day, about Andy Cohen who had CV-19 and has recovered and he wanted to donate his plasma; he was turned down because of his sexual orientation.

Andy Cohen says he couldn't donate plasma because he is gay

Guess it was four days ago.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 04:35 pm
@Rebelofnj,
Rebelofnj wrote:

The lack of funding I mentioned was related to the Reagan Administration's economic policies in an effort to control government spending and reduce funding in domestic programs.

Plus, there is criticism that the Reagan administration and the New York City government under mayor Ed Koch didn't respond quickly enough to stopping the spread of AIDS and educating the public on prevention methods.

Your rhetoric is wholly situated in a socialist-type paradigm where Republicans are always subject to criticism for not spending enough money.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -4  
Tue 28 Apr, 2020 04:38 pm
@revelette3,

What do you want to discuss here, diseases and pathogens or homophobic discrimination?
 

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