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Bernie Sanders 2020

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 05:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
Bernie Sanders wrote:

I think it is very important for everyone, but particularly for progressives, to acknowledge the enormous achievement of establishing a democratic homeland for the Jewish people after centuries of displacement and persecution.

We must also be honest about this: The founding of Israel is understood by another people in the land of Palestine as the cause of their painful displacement. And just as Palestinians should recognize the just claims of Israeli Jews, supporters of Israel must understand why Palestinians view Israel’s creation as they do. Acknowledging these realities does not “delegitimize” Israel any more than acknowledging the sober facts of America’s own founding delegitimizes the United States. It is a necessary step of truth and reconciliation in order to address the inequalities that continue to exist in our respective societies.


But then he goes to write this,

Quote:
Ending that occupation and enabling the Palestinians to have self-determination in an independent, democratic, economically viable state of their own is in the best interests of the United States, Israel, the Palestinians, and the region. My pride and admiration for Israel lives alongside my support for Palestinian freedom and independence. I reject the notion that there is any contradiction there.


The contradiction lies in the fact that for all of the US' oppression of the native peoples of America, it has afforded them reservations upon which they can pursue some semblance of their own way of life and, more importantly, has granted full citizenship rights to these peoples as well. Contradictorily for Sanders and other two state solutioners, the Zionists are afforded their negation of Palestinian peoples rights to Palestine. The Palestinians must concede their territorial rights to accommodate the claims of the Zionists therein and their ethnocentric "democracy." This is hypocrisy. The Zionists have a right to self-determination, but not at the expense of other peoples. Diplomacy for these people is to coerce the Palestinians to relinquish their rights. These people fail to understand that the conflict between the Zionists and the Palestinians will never be resolved until the former owns its obligations to the latter, their Right of Return. If there is one thing these "progressives" should understand it is this, the Palestinians will never relinquish this right of theirs.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 05:23 pm
@InfraBlue,
You read it wrong.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 05:52 pm
@Lash,
How so?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:10 pm
@InfraBlue,
Bernie is quoted to say in the piece, “My pride and admiration for Israel lives alongside my support for Palestinian freedom and independence. I reject the notion that there is any contradiction there.”

And for some reason, you say the contradiction is in America’s oppression of native Americans. I hope you aren’t laying that at Bernie’s feet. And, if not, pray tell why did you mention it here??

Then, you go on to say ‘progressives’ need to understand that Palestinians will never be satisfied without their freedom—which is what Bernie said.

It seems as though you paid scant attention to what the man said, just wanting to take on a windmill.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:33 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
The general population doesn’t know what’s happening, and it doesn’t even know that it doesn’t know. -- Noam Chomsky


This has to be one of the best examples of arrogant elitism on the part of the so-called intellectual class.

If you buy this ****, stop parading as a populist for the people.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I’ll have to stand by it.

I think Russia is a ploy to distract from Democrats’ crushing Clinton failure; I think the politics as usual is a thin and collapsing veneer of the rotting reality of our government. I believe Americans have been lulled into a sleepy satisfaction—and they’re maddeningly ignorant of reality.

A hell of a lot of people from all walks of life agree. They aren’t *especially* rich or intellectual.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:48 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
If I was to say that the population of Germany in 1944 did not know what what happening and did not know they didn't know, would that not make sense to you?

If one was to say that the farmers and shopkeepers and soldiers of North Korea do not know what's really going on and that they do not know that either, would that be an instance of intellectual elitism?

How power is held and how it is employed and why (as in, to who's benefit) is often out of the sight of a population.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:50 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

If I was to say that the population of Germany in 1944 did not know what what happening and did not know they didn't know, would that not make sense to you?

If one was to say that the farmers and shopkeepers and soldiers of North Korea do not know what's really going on and that they do not know that either, would that be an instance of intellectual elitism?

How power is held and how it is employed and why (as in, to who's benefit) is often out of the sight of a population.

Now vowing not to insult Blatham for a week.
Yes.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:54 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I think Russia is a ploy to distract from Democrats’ crushing Clinton failure
Exactly what Russia and Trump say. So, well done on that.

PS... love that "crushing" touch.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:57 pm
@blatham,
Progressives say it too. Hundreds of thousands of them.

They believe it in the absence of any silly false monsters pressing it. It’s time to come to terms with that.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 06:58 pm
@blatham,
I stick it to Hillary when I can. Surely you understand.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 07:02 pm
Russian bots are the centrist's crutch when they run out of answers.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 07:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Russian bots are the centrist's crutch when they run out of answers.

Oh yeah? I've got links to show the bots have conquered Saskatchewan and are moving in on Hoboken and Amarillo as we speak.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 07:54 pm
From FEELTHEBERN
Quote:
In a February 2018 interview on VPR, Bernie said, “It is now clear to everyone that agents of the Russian government were, in a disgusting and dangerous manner, actively interfering in the 2016 election in an effort to defeat Secretary Hillary Clinton.”

Bernie also stated during the interview that Russia “deserves unconditional condemnation” for their efforts to interfere with the 2016 elections.

Bernie introduced a Resolution in 2018 that would have forced “members of the Senate to go on the record in accepting the assessment of the U.S. intelligence community that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election and the looming threat of Russian interference in this year’s midterm elections.”
https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-russia/
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 08:02 pm
@blatham,
Do you know how many governments we’ve actually overthrown? Do you think we spy in Russia?

Is this the first time Russia spied on us? The second?
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 08:12 pm
@Lash,
Give it a break, you ******* nincompoop. Sanders himself precisely contradicts the claims you made right above.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 08:15 pm
I have never said there were no Russian efforts to influence our elections. I just find it insulting that every time a progressive makes a telling point we get cautioned that we have been duped by the bots again. Like centrists and Republicans are exempt from their efforts.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2019 08:24 pm
@blatham,
I do not care what anyone says. I know we’ve spied on every country worth spying on. I know they spy on us. We have a spy organization. We use it. Britain has one. They use it.

Everybody who's anybody spies on everybody.

Suddenly acting as though it’s a big surprise is ridiculous. I’m not playing this duplicitous game.



Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 01:32 am
@Lash,
It's not a big surprise but it's still very bad. Russians should elect their own president, not yours.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2019 01:49 am
Sanders has denounced coup, but Biden, Warren, and Buttigieg so far silent on Bolivia crisis

"Don't the other candidates have a position about a destabilizing, right-wing takeover of a neighboring country?"

JAKE JOHNSON
NOVEMBER 13, 2019 9:56PM (UTC)

In the nearly three days since Bolivia's elected President Evo Morales was deposed in a military coup, leading 2020 Democratic presidential candidates Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Pete Buttigieg have not said a word about the assault on democracy that U.S. President Donald Trump has enthusiastically endorsed.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) remains the only 2020 Democratic presidential contender to condemn Morales' ouster, which followed weeks of violent right-wing protests against the results of Bolivia's October presidential election.

https://www.salon.com/2019/11/13/sanders-has-denounced-coup-but-biden-warren-and-buttigieg-so-far-silent-on-overthrow-of-bolivias-morales/
0 Replies
 
 

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