affair

I don't believe in "soulmates." I think it's an overused term for a close, romantic partner. That's all. There are any number of people out there that any of us can fall in love with. Some of them will be compatible in the long term, others won't. The trick is to pick the right one and not just go on feelings. Feelings always change.

When someone starts talking about "soulmates" and "destined for each other" Free Will seems to be negated--particulary on the part of the woman.

Ain't it the truth.

It was mentioned that we are looking for sympathy. I am not looking for anyones sympathy, I guess I just needed to get some advice and get my feelings out some how. I have been given good advice on here and I know that, it is now up to me to take it or not. I do understand his wife being hurt and upset, I am in no way upset with her having feelings. I was saying I have an issue with him not standing up to the plate with her and his friends. I told him if he truly feels in his heart the marriage was not going to work and he left for the right reasons than standing up to them regarding my reputation and the rumors they are spreading should not be difficult.

Your correct getting involved with a married man was not the smartest thing I have done in my life and I have reflected on that so much, but I can not change the past I can only deal with the current issues and hope for the best. I can promise you this if this does not work out I will never date a married man again or even if he is just recently divorced there are to many emotions to deal with. Actually if it does not work my goal is to raise my kids and not get involved for a long time.

trfirst--

You've invested a good chunk of your life helping an married man make the transition to bachelor. You have given more than you have received.

I'm glad to think that you are considering the possibilities of Life After Turmoil.

Good luck.

I am agreeing with trfirst. Like any relationship you get frustrated and need to vent and advice from someone who can relate. I had a talk about the same situation and he knew he was doing it (acting indifferent) and he felt terrible the whole time about it. He mentioned to me his reason why he did it. His reason was a "very" valid reason. All it took was communication. He mentioned that he realized how much that had hurt me and he would not do that again and that he doesn't care about what others think, at the cost of my feelings being hurt it's more important to him that I don't disappoint him, and that he doesn't hurt my feelings since it kills him to see me upset.
Also in regards to the soul mate, cheesy line for some, yes. "I" do believe that there is alot of people you think you fall in love with and be with, but there is only, if your lucky to find, that one person who you are attracted to emotionally, physically, interests, and the person who you know deep inside you want to spend the rest of your life with. And you know death do us part and be willing to work at it to keep it interesting and death til you do part. I have dated my share of men, been "in love" but when you are with the person who is that one, you know. You are content, comfortable, happy, yourself , open, trust, laugh, and enjoy doing just the basic simple daily life things with. To me soul-mate is a person whom your feelings deepen and your bond is closer over the years. For me I know there is a difference.
I understand trfirst. Did he mention to you if there was a certain reason why he acts like that, an example ?

Chey,

I took a vacation last week with my kids so I haven't been on to respond. The last week was nice to be with my kids but I still could not escape what I needed to get away from. I got another call from his sister but this time she called my cell number and I was not available. I asked him to please tell his family to stop calling me and explain to them he was a grown man with his own decisions and they needed to stop blaming me. He did not like me telling him this at all, he said he felt I put more pressure on him and he does not need that, he said he needs me to be a rock for him, he needs someone he can depend on to be there with out pressure. He told me he feels pressure from everywhere right now and does not need me to add to that. I asked him if we are in this together his response was he can't promise anything because he does not know how rough it will get. I told him its not fair to ask me to be a rock for him and put up with his friends and family ruining my reputation if he can't promise he will be there for me. He than back tracked and said what he meant is he does want to be with me and that is his goal but he does not know how hard this is going to get with his kids.

I am very confused on what to do now, am I not being supportive to his feelings enough? am I asking to much of him at this point maybe I am. He has issues right now being around my kids because it makes it hard when he misses his kids, I have been very understanding to this. I told him I feel I have been a rock for him, that I have tried not to put pressure on him, I even told him I have alot of feelings I don't let out to him so I don't and I took vacation this week to get away from it and not tell him my pressures so I protect his pressures. Honestly I think that is why I got on here in the first place to express my feelings so I don't pour everything on him. I want to be there for him, I do but is it unfair for me to ask for a little from him or should I just be here when he needs me and back away my feelings?

Wise people learn from other people's mistakes...
Dear Trfirst,

You sound like such a loving, intelligent woman... and it makes me infinitely sad to read your story here. Why? I see where this is headed - a dark bottomless abyss of heartbreak, lost trust, diminished self-esteem, disarrayed life, pain and more pain.... The reason for my dark prediction? I have been there (not exactly the married man getting divorced, but that's just a detail... the behavior is what's important).

What makes me even more sad is the fact that I know you may not believe you have the strength to walk away from this - I wish I could hug you, talk to you, convince you that you can walk away... but that is something you have to do for yourself.

I realize that all of us believe or would like to believe that our lives are unique, but the human condition is more monotonous than we think. Countless women have been where you are, including myself, learn from their mistakes without making any more of your own.

My now-ex-husband was very similar to your man. He used women... probably not even intentionally, but simply because it came naturally to him (that's who he had become) - used them as crutches, used them as the rag with which he would wipe his slate clean after each unsuccessful relationship ("I need you to understand me", "Do you think this is easy for me?", "My life is in pieces, but I want to put it back together so we can be happy, so you need to help me", "Why are you putting demands on me", "Why are you stressing me out when you know I am at the point of breaking already", "I love you but...", "I need time", "My friends and family need time to adjust to a new person in my life", "blah blah blah' - do any of these sound familiar?).

You are his transitional woman, you even said in one of your posts that he is "keeping the door open" for someone else to walk through. If you are like me - strong, intelligent, super-caring, determined, you will prolong your own misery. Why? Because you will dig in, you will give and give and give, and you will drag out this "transitional" phase and try to make it into something more (I turned it into a marriage - stupidest thing I have ever done in my life, I make it a rule not to regret the past since I can't change it - but stupidity, especially my own, is hard to forget sometimes).

All the wonderful things that you are seeing in him, the way he makes you feel, the way you love him - that is all YOU, YOU and YOU... (I am not yelling, just emphasizing ) He is the knight in distress and you are the loving, caring, patient, self-sacrificing maiden who is willing to endure all sorts of humiliation and mistreatment for the sake of this great "LOVE"... (If you are like me, you were raised with a very unrealistic perception of love and life...) Ohhh... I have been you (my ex-husband wasn't married, but was getting out of a long-term relationship when he clung onto me)... I wasted years of my life... Please remember, the love you are feeling for him originates within you, is fed by you, is nurtured by you - and in reality has very little to do with him.

Also...
Cheyenne is a little ahead of you, but still has a lot of heartache to go through - I did the letter writing, the reasoning, the rational discussions, more letters - well-written, well-reasoned, logical letters. They would change things for a little while, but... it is just more time wasted.

I finally had to look at myself critically - I realized that I am worth much more and I deserve much more. I understood that the love I am capable of giving is born of my own person and deserves a better recipient.

If he is such a weak and spineless man that he cannot pull through this and needs to have your help in cleaning up his dirty messes (emotional, etc.) then do you really need this man? If you lay in a doorway with a big sign across your body that says "doormat", then you cannot expect anyone to treat you like a great Woman (and I mean with a "W"). One thing is almost certain, if you allow him to use you as his doormat now (which you are), why should he see you as something else in the future? (I have been the doormat... believe me... the sooner you get up the easier it will be, because the more trampled you get the more it will hurt and the longer it will take to revive the Woman within).

Please find the strength to take a break from this (even if it is just temporary)... And please, please, please don't allow yourself to become enslaved to the infamous "But I love him so much, he makes me feel complete, he needs me..." bs (I have done this bs too... you can stop, believe me, you can...) If he loves you he will come for you, when he has cleaned up his life and is ready to give you his love and his future.

Remember, you are an AMAZING WOMAN - a man should be visiting every church, synagogue, mosque and temple within a hundred mile radius, to thank every deity for his good fortune of having your love (especially since he has so little to offer right now, he should thank his stars that a woman like you has even looked in his direction). Why are you the one acting like you just got a package from heaven? (Right now, this package looks a lot like a soiled diaper... )

I am sorry this post was so long... and if I have come across as harsh anywhere, please forgive me... I am not at all trying to be harsh - I am just so overcome with sadness at this situation (my scars are still healing), I am getting too emotional...

Many hugs and positive thoughts,
Vix

I would first like to thank you for your kind words about me when not knowing me.

You see I just don't know how to break away, he says his goal is to be with me but he needs me to be patient with him. I want to do this, I have already given up on a marriage and felt like such a failure. I am so afraid of leaving a man I love with all my heart and would give anything for. I have done a lot of crying over this situation and I do think sometimes I should take a break from it but I am so afaid if I do he will feel I have let him down when he needs me most.

trfirst--



He needs, he needs, he needs....

Are you a woman or a National Resource?

Hint: National Resources don't say they have needs--and look at the state of our National Parks with no money spent on them.

The reason I have such a high opinion of you, without knowing much about you, is this - selfish, unkind and insensitive people never get into situations like this! It is usually the kind, caring, sensitive, bright, introspective, evolving souls that get trapped in such quagmires... (Just think of a selfish ditz you know - would she ever put up with this?)

There are two immediate challenges you must face:
1. Overcoming your fear of losing him due to -
a. him thinking you are "abandoning" him in his time of "need" (which you may believe will make him not love you in the future)
b. someone else stepping in to "care" for him while you are taking a break from the "relationship"

2. Overcoming your own sense of "duty", "loyalty", etc. (a type of "noblesse oblige") to stand by the man you love in his time of need, to support him, etc.

If you allow your common sense, your sense of self, and your dignity to be your guides, you will be able to overcome #1 (both parts a and b). You must realize that an honorable man does not use a loving woman the way he is using you (I know, every time someone says something negative about his treatment of you (like I just said about his misuse), your memory may race to find 2 positive things he does for you - I have really been there, but please try to be guided by reason, not emotion, and yes... I know this is hard).

Would you ever treat him the way he has treated you? I think not... at least not judging by your posts... and you are also in need, just as much as he is (if not more), his situation is not really any worse than yours.
So... he is getting divorced, his family is not happy about it, blah blah blah... you have been through worse (at least from what you have told us) and you have managed to do it without stomping all over someone else's dignity.

You are a divorcee and a single mother, you have had to struggle and work hard for everything you have, you are a prominent member of a community and are now being ostracized by a significant number of people for things that you have NOT done. He is a guy, who is tired of his wife, is getting a divorce - taking his own sweet time, while having a great time being out with friends and family (who are much more willing to make you the bad guy than him), AND... on the side, enjoying the love, care and sex of a wonderful woman - YOU... without having to do ANYthing for you.

Why are you holding the bar so low for him? Because he is getting divorced? A number of us here have been divorced (including you) - and I will let others speak for themselves, but at least in my case, it didn't kill me, neither did it turn me into an insensitive and nonchalant donkey who treats other people without respect or consideration... and I didn't have someone's gentle arms holding me through the ordeal... He is a big boy, his need is not greater than your need. Do not worry about him not wanting you in the future because you "abandoned" him in his time of "need". If he loves you, he knows that he needs to be there for your needs and until he can do that, he has no right (moral, emotional or ethical) to expect anything of you.

I am not even going to address the worry about someone else stepping in to take your place. As irrational as this is, I know I have held that fear in the past (those were the bad old days), but I think I cannot tell you anything you cannot think of yourself. Please be rational... if that's how shallow his love is for you, then you don't need it (no matter how much you may think you want it)...

The second point (about your own feelings of "loyalty", "decency", etc.) I have already touched upon... do not hold the bar so high for yourself when you are willing to put it on the ground for him. Be rational, use your common sense, listen to your gut (not to your fears, but to the voice of the woman you really are, the voice that is always within you)...

I am definitely rambling today - lack of sleep will do it... sorry...

You said "I am so afraid if I do [take a break] he will feel I have let him down"... Please, please stop worrying about what he feels for a little while and worry about what YOU feel. Do you think he worries nearly as much about what YOU feel? Doesn't seem like it to me... You have an obligation to yourself and to your children, to be and remain a whole, healthy and functional human being - no one, not even the greatest love, the Romeo of your life, is worth self-sacrifice or the sacrifice of your children's mother (that is where your obligations are - with you and your kids)...

Start putting a little distance between the two of you - find new ways to occupy your time so you are not so available to him, avoid seeing him as much as possible, especially in private. When you are at a public function together, YOU should be the one being cool and generally ignoring him (remember, he is not an available man - neither legally nor emotionally, at this point). I am certain you have not enjoyed yourself at any gatherings which you have attended because you have been entirely consumed by thoughts of him (where is he, when will he come over, why is he not looking at me, etc.) and you should really try to change that. Remember the person you were before all this? That person was stronger, happier and in a better place.

In my estimation, LOVE should raise you higher, should make you happier, should fulfill you in body, mind and spirit. Is this love doing that for you?

I will probably disappear for a while - I will be working a lot of hours in the coming month, but I will try to check in every now and then...

P.S. I hope this is somewhat helpful to you and others in search of this sort of advice. A little confession (selfish), this is helping me keep my mind off the married man I love (no clandestine relationship there, I was lucky enough to find the strength to stop myself from going down that road, but my thoughts are still on him much much more often than they should be.)

Well I have at least taken a step forward, I went to the doctor today. I can't continue on this path, my mental health is not good right now. So he put me on some medicine and made me a counseling appointment. The funny thing is my doctor asked who I was seeing when I told him his reply was - he is such a nice guy, he has done alot for our community with his business. So see he is a great guy and others see this as well, this is one of the reasons I want to stand by him 1. because of the love I have for him and 2. because he is a great person and I think he needs my support. Well we will see what the counselor says, I guess I will find out soon if I am just crazy or if I am doing the right thing by trying to support him.

Well I have at least taken a step forward, I went to the doctor today. I can't continue on this path, my mental health is not good right now. So he put me on some medicine and made me a counseling appointment. The funny thing is my doctor asked who I was seeing when I told him his reply was - he is such a nice guy, he has done alot for our community with his business. So see he is a great guy and others see this as well, this is one of the reasons I want to stand by him 1. because of the love I have for him and 2. because he is a great person and I think he needs my support. Well we will see what the counselor says, I guess I will find out soon if I am just crazy or if I am doing the right thing by trying to support him.

Sorry I was gone for a while. Wow..Vixen is right that I am further but not much. Everything you said was really good. I also had gone to the doctor about 1 week ago and got medication to see if it helps me "think clearer". I tried the "taking a break" almost exactly a year ago (wow didn't realize it was that long) and then took another break before Christmas. It was extremely hard (both didn't even last 2 weeks). I was miserable, often thinking that pain was worse. I couldn't eat, sleep, crappy, cry. He ended up loosing more weight then I did by not eating !
Vixen you were right, I have heard all of those you listed and a few more (I need you here for me, I dealing with so much I don't need you to add to it, I have never been through this so I am trying to deal with this the best way I can and I need you to help me and understand me ).
I gave myself a mental time period. It's coming close to it. Maybe you should try that. The closer to it I get the more resentful I am getting. Everything Vixen wrote is what I have been feeling and thinking. I just haven't done anything about it yet.
I think the one reason why I hadn't left, is even though I "know" he'll be there afterwards, (he'd honor the break for me until things are "cleaned" up), it's because I will feel not afraid I'll loose him, or another woman would snatch him up, I will feel like I failed. Everyone knows that we are a couple, getting ridiculed about , rumored about and I think if I walk away completely it was all for nothing. Sounds dumb, and meaningless, but that's what I think it is. Failure and all that hard work to love, being supportive, getting reputation ruined for nothing and then having to start all over again with someone else I know I will never feel the same for. That's it. I think I am being like him, scared to do anything so I will just let it keep going until someone else makes the move for me. He's doing that with her, and now I am. I am getting to the point though I am sick of waiting for someone to move. It's obviously going to be me.

Cheyanna.... big, big hug.... hugs... to both you and TRFirst....

I feel your pain and I am so saddened to hear of it, but I DO know that you will pull through and you will come out of this and you will look back and marvel at how and why you had lived in such misery (the way I do now sometimes). You will be happy again - happiness is like hope, it is perennial and dies only one instant before hope.

I know what you mean about the sense of "failure" - I am a very driven, ambitious and overachieving person, so I do not take failure of any kind very easily. That is why I turned a bad relationship into a marriage (through the sheer power of my own will) and made that marriage last for 6 years (solely through my perseverance). But... I have a saying now - it takes a great person to succeed at building a relationship, but it takes an even greater person to recognize when a relationship is not worth building.

As far as going to the doctor and taking pills, please consider this - medication will not make the cause of your unhappiness go away, it will simply make you numb to it (at best). There is nothing wrong with you, you are simply stuck in bad pseudo-relationships (I say "pseudo" because a true relationship, good or bad, is always two-sided and is out in the open).

I wish you strength and I know that happiness is in your futures - you just need to have the courage to pull yourselves out of these quagmires.

Good luck to both of you!

Vix (vixen - as in female fox, not a mean woman)

Update: I went to the counselor yesterday he pretty much said what has been said on here. He asked why D is not standing up for me with his family and friends and told me the only way to make it better is if he sits his family down and explains to them I am not responsible and to leave it alone. He told me I need to learn to be a little more selfish and want more out of someone in how I am treated.

I told D I went and he seemed glad I did, this past weekend his soon to be ex and his kids were in a car accident it totaled the van but everyone was ok. This scared him and he now feels guilty because he says if he hadn't left they would never have been on the trip. I told him he needs to re-think leaving, I told him until he knows in his heart he did the right thing and can move on without guilt it will never work for us. He would never be able to give me the love I deserve until he is happy and content with his decision to end the marriage. He told me he is going to go see a counselor to help him sort through his feelings. I did tell him if he questions it that much that I would step away and maybe they should date for a while to see where his feelings are before he just goes back. He does not want me to back away just yet he said he needs me to be there for him now.

tr - he is such a needy man, and you have been such a giving person.

When do you get a turn to be the one getting support and all the care you need? Has there ever been a time in the relationship where he put you first - before himself, before his community, before anything else?

Understanding, really understanding, that you deserve more is a hard place to get to. Work with your counsellor on building your self-esteem <in terms of relationships> and take care of yourself.

He is a grown-up. He needs to learn to care for you, his family, and himself.

He constantly seems to be asking to be 'first among others'. Perhaps counselling will help him with that neediness.

Good luck to you, tr.

I share ehBeth's opinion.

Well, my own view is that if this all works out, you will still be dealing with this stuff down the line. Still not being cherished.

I'm with ehBeth and Occo.

Actions speak louder than words and this guy's actions indicate that he values himself far more than he values you.

He feels guilty about leaving his wife and family--so he wants you to stand by him while he thinks all about himself.

Where is the chapter in this romance with your name on it?

I hear you I really do, and my counselor has asked me the same thing. He asked me if I believe I deserve to be honored, my reply was yes I do but I feel like he is in a place where he needs my support and understanding. He did not question that but does feel D needs to think about my feelings and reputation and what all this is doing to me if he truly loves me. I am just so confused on what to do, I have asked him if I should back away until he figures it out. He does not want me to he said he is sure of one thing in his life right now and that is his feelings for me. But Noddy your correct actions speak louder than words and the actions I am seeing hurts me. I will continue counseling and hope he goes as well.