@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I suspect that Trump is going to find another way to **** this up. He will end up bending over for his extremist base again while hurting the chances of his own party.
Yeah, right, eh, Max? Be honest. Replace "suspect" with "I hope to God." Then add, "the more childern who suffer, the better. More votes for us!"
@layman,
I want Trump to use his power to provide a humane way for children and families to stay together while they go through the legal process to determine whether they can stay or not.
If this means a humane family detention center, then OK. Trump has the sole responsibility when he does something bad. He also gets the credit when he does something good. If he does something reasonable, I will have no problem giving him the credit.
This involves cruelty to children. I want it resolved humanely.
@layman,
Wow! I just read the executive order. Trump caved.
Good for him.
@maxdancona,
My understanding is that the detainees will still be detained. Their children will just be placed into detention alongside them.
Is my understanding wrong?
@oralloy,
Yes, I believe that is correct. I am ok with that, provided the facilities are humane.
@maxdancona,
There's still a major obstacle to hurdle:
Quote:Even if Republicans manage to pass an immigration bill through the House, which is a tall order, the fight is all but certain to fizzle in the Senate.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader from New York, is adamant that Trump can end the family separations on his own and that legislation is not needed.
Without Democratic support, Republicans cannot muster the 60 votes needed to move forward on legislation.
Another re-post from the other thread:
The 'zero tolerance" policy of Trump is absolutely necessary to change the incentives for smugglers of children who are not theirs, and for the welfare of their victims, who are often forced into virtual slavery for labor and sexual exploitation after they, and their captors, are released into the States
The "catch and release" policy of Obama was a dismal failure. The smugglers all knew that if they brought some kid in with them, even one they kidnapped, and claimed to be the parent, they would NOT be arrested or detained.
Instead they would just be given a notice to appear at a civil hearing. As little as 3% ever showed up, I hear. They would just head for a sanctuary city and start pimping out their captive kids.
Liberals loved it! Even today they (e.g., Kamala Harris) are saying that that Trump should prevent all arrests of anyone with children. They want open borders, pure and simple, and have no real concern for the children. Children are much better off in state foster homes than with the criminal kidanppers who often bring them in.
@layman,
Trump already caved without Congress. He signed an executive order today to keep families together.
The.circular firing squad that is the Republican majority in Congress is fun to watch, but it is now inconsequential.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Trump already caved without Congress. He signed an executive order today to keep families together.
The.circular firing squad that is the Republican majority in Congress is fun to watch, but it is now inconsequential.
This thread is kaput then?
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:Trump already caved without Congress. He signed an executive order today to keep families together.
The circular firing squad that is the Republican majority in Congress is fun to watch, but it is now inconsequential.
Since Trump has not given in on his zero tolerance policy, I question how this counts as him caving in.
Since the courts might strike down this executive order if it isn't backed by legislation, Congress may not be as inconsequential as you think.
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Everything good under Trumps watch is his doing.
Everything bad under Trumps watch is someone else.
That's true of a lot of people.
Trump is only the most obvious case.
If people were not here illegally this would not be an issue would it? The parents of the kids hardly did them any favours did they?
@McGentrix,
Not if people keep posting on it.
I predict that Trump is going to screw it up, putting his own party in a very difficult position. He is trying to fellate his right wing base while he convinces the rest of the country he isn't a heartless tyrant. I don't think he can do both. He is great at riling up the base, but navegating difficult policy issues with political and moral consequences is not really in his skillset.
This isn't over.
Its far from over because judging by what I have seen the ruling he signed has a pretty short time limit on it something like 20 days (but I could be wrong). Also at present there are no plans as to exactly how this is supposed to be being done, so in a way its complete b/s
@oralloy,
There you go again Oralloy.
Trump said he couldn't do anything. And he said he wouldn't do anything until his conditions were met.
Then he went and did what we have been saying he should have done in the first place. Even Redstate is calling this a "cave".
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
He is trying to fellate his right wing base while he convinces the rest of the country he isn't a heartless tyrant. I don't think he can do both.
I do.
People will believe any narrative that makes their alpha dog seem like he's "not that bad a guy". At the end of the day, that's what they want to think, and no matter how many facts get in their way, that's what they WILL think.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I predict that Trump is going to screw it up, putting his own party in a very difficult position. This isn't over.
Keep dreamin, Max. Who knows, maybe if you abandon your atheism and start praying to God, your wishful thinking will become reality, eh?
@Kolyo,
Kolyo, I disagree.
This week Americans showed they had a conscience in spite of Trump's bluster. A large number of people...liberals and conservatives, Christian leaders and airline stewardesses, stood up and said "this is wrong".
... and Trump backed down. This was a week when American stood strong.
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:Trump said he couldn't do anything. And he said he wouldn't do anything until his conditions were met.
Then he went and did what we have been saying he should have done in the first place.
Trump was saying that this can only be done with legislation and he doesn't have the authority to do it with an executive order.
There is a good argument that he was correct. And if his executive order is not backed by legislation, the courts may well strike it down, at which point we will be right back to separating kids from their parents.
