13
   

Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:33 pm
@layman,
Trump has enacted a barbaric policy which you still are unwilling tondirectly defend. The Republicans will rightly pay politically

You are weaseling again. These kids have no responsibility for this new Trump "zero tolerance" policy. This is a Trump policy.

Can you even admit that you support the new "zero tolerance" policy set by the Trump administration?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:35 pm
@oralloy,
Come on Oralloy. You aren't going to weasel out too are you?

The Trump administration rolled out a new "zero tolerance" policy announced by Jeff Sessions in April. This has never been the policy until now.

Do you support it, or not?
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:36 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Can you even admit that you support the new "zero tolerance" policy set by the Trump administration?


Of course he did. Unlike his outlaw predecessor he is not willing to piss all over laws duly enacted by their elected representatives.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:41 pm
There are about 11 million arrests in this country every year. In most of those cases children are forcibly separated from their parents. These are mainly U.S citizens. Why aint you whining about those children, Max?

It's BARBARIC, I tells ya!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:43 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
This has never been the policy until now.
Nonsense. Explain all those children without parents in Obama's detention centers.

maxdancona wrote:
Do you support it, or not?
Perhaps not, but what is the alternative? Turing the kids loose in the Mexican desert?

More to the point, I can clearly see that the reason why there is no change is because Democrats refuse to compromise with Trump on border security.

I certainly don't blame Trump for the fact that Democrats refuse to work with him on reforming Obama-era policies.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:46 pm
@layman,
So you admit that the new Trump policy is substantially different than that of previous administration? Good.

Now can you accept that before this new policy kids would have either been kept with their families, or reunited with their families as soon as possible? Now kids are being separated as a matter of course for much longer periods of time.

If you accept the consequences of this new Trump policy, and still think think they are defensible...then good for you. I disagree, but at least you are willing to own up to your position.

layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:50 pm
@maxdancona,
For about the 10th time, Max, go to the other thread. Read my posts, and those of others there on each side of the issue, then comment if you care to. I aint gunna repeat it all here.

But, before you do that, apologize, coward. And answer Roy's questions why doncha? Ya scared?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:55 pm
@oralloy,
Trump is the president of the United States..he is solely responsible for this new policy announced by Jeff Sessions in April as a "zero tolerance" policy. No one else is responsible for this decision.

People who support this decision should own up to it on spite of the consequences.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:58 pm
@maxdancona,
Why don't you own up to the fact that you object to 10% tolerance. And 50% tolerance. And 99% tolerance.

Fess up that you are a pathetic advocate of "open borders," straight down the line, forever. Why don't you and your Mexican wife just move to Mexico if you want to be with more of your homeys?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 05:59 pm
@maxdancona,
Does someone have the balls to say "I support Trump's new policy, in spite of the consequences, because...?

This is a new Trump policy. All this talk about serial killers, Obama and the ACLU is weaseling.

layman
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:05 pm
@maxdancona,
I fully support enforcing the law.

I fully support the humane treatment of children.

I fully support Trump and Sessions. Until the law is changed, they must follow it. The law requires them to put children in foster care, instead of prison with their parents.

Call your congressman, Max, instead of bitching because your brother-in-law got busted for shoplifting and his kids missed him while he was gone, eh?
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:13 pm
@layman,
Thank you for saying you fully support Trump and Sessions. You still aren't giving them the full responsibility for the decision that they made to enact this policy....but progress is progress.

Of course I have called my Congress members. I am also expressing my opinion publicaly about how barbaric this is in many forums as are many Americans.

And most importantly, we are going to insist that Republican candidates will have to answer for this. That is the biggest pressure that citizens have in a democracy, especially in an election year.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:19 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You still aren't giving them the full responsibility for the decision that they made to enact this policy....but progress is progress.


I will give a cop "full responsibility" for wisely and bravely protecting citizens, and praise him for doing so.

I will also give them full responsibility when they refuse to do so, like the cop who stood around with his thumb up his ass while he heard one student after another being leisurely shot to death in a Florida school.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:21 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Trump is the president of the United States..he is solely responsible for this new policy announced by Jeff Sessions in April as a "zero tolerance" policy. No one else is responsible for this decision.
Maybe so, but Democrats are responsible for their refusal to compromise with Trump to reform the system.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Does someone have the balls to say "I support Trump's new policy, in spite of the consequences, because...?
I'm largely ambivalent about the entire issue, but I have no objection to immigration so in theory would oppose the policy.

But I think there is nothing wrong with the president wanting legislation to include things he wants, so I see this problem as largely caused by the Democrats refusing to compromise with Trump on border legislation.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:29 pm
As always, you will NEVER answer a question, eh, Max?

Every state in this country has laws which prohibit putting children in jail and making them serve time with their criminal parents. Why aren't you whining about that "barbarity?"
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:32 pm
@oralloy,
I don't see the connection. Are you saying that Trump is using this policy as a a way to pressure Democrats to do what he wants?

There is a big political risk to using kids being separated from their parents as a political negotiating chip. And, just to head off the obvious retort it is not valid to turn this around. One side is refusing to provide tax dollars to build an unpopular wall. The other side is separating children from their parents (not to mention the fact the Republicans control both houses of Congress).

I hope that talking about the politics doesn't take away from the fact that this is a moral issue. But, politics is the arena where this will be resolved.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:38 pm
@layman,
It is a stupid question. But as always, I will answer it.

The American courts do take the welfare of children into account all through the legal process... as they should. People accused of crimes are given bail...and children are factor in this process. The welfare of children is also taken into account in sentencing.

Of course a civilized society takes the welfare of children into account in the legal system, and where possible accommodations are made for the good of children.

This is a stupid question. You are still weaseling. But there. You have your answer.

This thread is about Trump's new "zero tolerance" policy. Can we get back on topic?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:38 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Thank you for saying you fully support Trump and Sessions. You still aren't giving them the full responsibility for the decision that they made to enact this policy....but progress is progress.


You're right that, as the head of the executive branch, Trump has "full responsibility" for seeing that duly enacted laws of the U.S. Congress are enforced.

He also has the absolute duty to have his officers comply with the law themselves.

You seem to think that makes it his fault if your brother gets arrested for bank fraud and is "ripped away" from his kids while he serves time, eh?

Quote:
“RESPONSIBILITY, n. A detachable burden easily shifted to the shoulders of God, Fate, Fortune, Luck or one's neighbor. In the days of astrology it was customary to unload it upon a star.” (Ambrose Bierce)


Bierce no doubt had you and your cheese-eating ilk in mind when he wrote that, eh, Max?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2018 06:40 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Are you saying that Trump is using this policy as a a way to pressure Democrats to do what he wants?
Yes.
 

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