13
   

Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 10:25 am
@layman,
Most Americans support DACA (the executive order that says that people who came to the US with their parents up to the age of 18 aren't responsible for immigrating illegally). The Hill reports that over 80% of Americans support this policy.

I agree with most Americans on this issue.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 10:27 am
@maxdancona,
[url][/url]
maxdancona wrote:

Most Americans support DACA (the executive order that says that people who came to the US with their parents up to the age of 18 aren't responsible for immigrating illegally). The Hill reports that over 80% of Americans support this policy.

I agree with most Americans on this issue.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay



And so does Trump, who has said as much. Like Obama, he also realizes that the constitution prohibits him from enacting law by way of executive orders, so he properly refrains from that, while urging congress to pass the appropriate law, so he can enforce it. Obama did it while acknowledging that he was violating the constitution. Trump don't play dat! Not as a long-term policy, anyway. He did go along for 6 months doing it, while urging congress to act, but that didn't make it right.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 10:29 am
@layman,
That's a cute little dance. I don't think that anyone really buys it.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 10:33 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That's a cute little dance. I don't think that anyone really buys it.


Well, that may be true for you, Max, because for you "anyone" would only include some other wild-eyed commie anarchist like you who wants to disobey, disrupt, and abolish the law. Others aren't even people, they're inhuman, so they can't be part of "anyone."

In that sense, you're correct. "Anyone" doesn't "buy" what Trump wants, which is for DACA to be enacted, because he's not a member of the class which comprises "anyone."
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 11:37 am
I'll repost this in your thread, too, Max, just for you:


layman wrote:

Unfortunately, these rallies were organized BEFORE Trump signed his executive order, so now they've had to move the goalposts to "No borders, no nations! Abolish the ICE!" In short, they were forced to reveal their true agenda.

Quote:
The voices of hundreds of thousands of people rang nationwide on Saturday calling for the reunification of hundreds of children separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Protesters chanted “shut detention down!” as they marched in New York City’s Foley Square while in El Paso, Texas, hundreds marched toward the Paso Del Norte (Santa Fe) Bridge that crosses into Juarez, Mexico. More than 600 events were planned across the country.

Dallas protest organizer Michelle Wentz says opposition to the policy has seemed to cross political party lines. She called it a "barbaric and inhumane" policy.

Saturday's rallies are getting funding and support from the American Civil Liberties Union, MoveOn.org, the National Domestic Workers Alliance and The Leadership Conference.

Tweeting from New Jersey, Trump said that Democrats "are making a strong push to abolish ICE, one of the smartest, toughest and most spirited law enforcement groups of men and women that I have ever seen." He urged ICE agents to "not worry or lose your spirit." Trump also tweeted on Saturday that he was backing ICE agents and that there was “zero chance” of ICE being abolished.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 30 Jun, 2018 09:21 pm
I'm posting this with the dubious thought that you might someday understand how real americans (i.e., not commie anarchists) think about Trump's policies, Max. As I said, virtually every americans wants these criminal detained, rather than released, but what about "zero tolerance?" How many want them arrested, as opposed to mere detention until deported?

Quote:
The Economist and YouGov recently released a poll conducted June 17 through 19,revealing that there is a plurality of support among American voters -- 46% -- for a 'zero tolerance' policy regarding the arrest and detention of all illegal crossings.

Additionally, a Rasmussen Reports survey of 1,000 American likely voters, conducted June 19 and 20, showed that 54% of likely voters believe parents who illegally enter the country with their children are more to blame for the arrest and separation of families. Only 35% blame the federal government for enforcing immigration law


https://www.numbersusa.com/news/poll-more-americans-support-zero-tolerance-policy-catch-release

Under Trump, there will be "immigration reform" sooner or later. But it won't be the kinda reform that you have in mind by any stretch. The diversity lottery will be OUT. "Family related" chain migration (about 2/3 of present legal immigration) will be SEVERELY limited. The number 0f allowable legal immigrants will be reduced. Penalties for illegal immigration will be stiffened. A significant increase in funding for border security will be allocated and there will be a major crackdown on illegal immigration. Sanctuary cities will be defunded. ICE obstructors will be convicted of criminal offenses.

Some form of DACA legislation will be passed. After that Trump will systematically weed out every last one of the other 11 million aliens already here, one by one.

Like I done said--if you want to be around more of you Mexican homeys, you should seriously consider emigrating to Mexico, eh?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 09:54 am
@layman,
Ironically... I am considering moving to Mexico. I love it there. But that is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Trump is not King, what he can do about immigration is limited by what the American people will allow. By American people, in this context, I am saying that Congress gets a say... each Representative in Congress (including the commie fascist atheist anarchists) get a vote. You might be right about the diversity lottery. I think you are exaggerating what Trump can accomplish restricting legal immigration for any length of time past his term... and this will cost him with the business wing of the Republican party.

There is a good chance that the American people will elect more Commie Anarchists into Congress (at least I hope so) this November. Americans are Commie Anarchists. We have the same Constitutional right you have including the right to vote.

Commie Anarchists, as Americans, have a lot to say about what Trump is doing to our country. This Commie Anarchist says that Trump can **** himself and his immigration policy.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 10:10 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Most Americans support DACA (the executive order that says that people who came to the US with their parents up to the age of 18 aren't responsible for immigrating illegally). The Hill reports that over 80% of Americans support this policy.

I agree with most Americans on this issue.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay


Glad to know you support it Max. However President Obama's Executive order contradicted key elements in the law directing the Executive department of the government to suspend enforcement of the applicable provisions of the law regarding illegal immigration. It was quite obviously a violation of the separations of powers provision in our constitution and of the Presidents sworn duty to enforce the law. The minor children who enter this country illegally with their parents should promptly be expelled from the country along with their parents (thereby keeping the families together).

Good luck in Mexico ! It is indeed a very pleasant place. However the levels of crime and violence in the major cities (and in some rural areas are dangerously high.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 10:19 am
@georgeob1,
You are using the word "obviously" in a partisan way, you say that because it matches conservative talking points, not because legal experts or even the majority of Americans, agree with you. But OK.

You are still missing the point that we live in a democracy. The will of the American people does matter (including us commie anarchists). Apart from the moral issues, I think that Trump is making big strategic political blunders that will hurt your side in the long term. The only problem is the damage that Trump's devisive policies will do to the country in the short term.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 10:49 am
@maxdancona,
I used the word "obvious" to indicate that the matter is self evident to a rational observer.

We live in a constitutional democracy that involves elected legislators, an elected President and a Judiciary appointed and confirmed by the first two. Our constitution prescribes the duties of these three branches and included provisions deliberately designed to check and balance excesses among any of the three branches.

The law is developed and passed in the Legislature, but the President can Veto its actions, subject to override by a supermajority in the legislature.

The President is sworn to enforce the law, and cannot unilaterally amend it, or decide not to enforce it.

The judiciary administers the courts in individual actions in criminal and civil law. It's appellate courts oversee the propriety of the actions of lower courts and the Supreme Court reviews the compliance of enacted laws with the constitution.

You here repeatedly claim to know and speak for "the majority of Americans" . Others, who profoundly disagree with you, also proclaim that they speak for "the majority of Americans" . This alone illustrates the need for our constitutional order. The united States is one of the oldest representative Democracies in the world. It is not perfect, but our constitutional structure has been imitated by many other countries around the world ( with many variations among them).

Your repeated proclamations, that you alone know the real wishes of Americans on these issues, are laughable on their face. Your suggestions that these assertions alone call for the actions you favor, quite obviously violate nearly every basic provision of our constitution.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:04 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I used the word "obvious" to indicate that the matter is self evident to a rational observer.


Now you are using the term "rational observer" in a partisan way. Do you not find it a little suspicious that this hypothetical rational observer is perfectly aligned with conservative talking points?

Now for the civics lesson.

- President Obama (the executive branch) enacted DACA as an executive order. These executive orders have been used by American presidents since Lincoln.

- The Federal Courts (the judicial branch) ruled that DACA was constitutional. The Supreme Court had the opportunity to weigh in, and allowed DACA to stand by declining (which is there prerogative).

- Congress decided to do nothing on the issue. This is their right.

Our Constitutional system of checks and balances worked in the case of DACA. The only problem is that the result wasn't what conservatives wanted.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:24 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Now for the civics lesson.

- The Federal Courts (the judicial branch) ruled that DACA was constitutional. The Supreme Court had the opportunity to weigh in, and allowed DACA to stand by declining (which is there prerogative).

Our Constitutional system of checks and balances worked in the case of DACA.


Wrong again, as usual, eh, Max?

Quote:
Supreme Court’s Refusal To Hear DACA Challenge Is No Victory

The Supreme Court has declined to hear an expedited appeal by the Trump administration of the Ninth Circuit’s temporary injunction preventing the administration from ending the DACA program. The Court dismissed the Trump appeal without prejudice, and Trump will of course be able to appeal the Ninth Circuit’s ruling whenever the Circuit gets around to making a final judgment.


https://abovethelaw.com/2018/02/supreme-court-no-victory-for-dreamers/

Nice try, cheese-eater. Best learn some civics before pretending to give lessons in it, eh?



maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:26 am
@layman,
Yet here we are... a year and a half into the Trump administration, and DACA is still in effect.

Score another one for the Commie Anarchist Cheese-eater Americans!
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:36 am
A little more "civics" for ya, Max.

Quote:
The problem with the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program has always been that it’s not an act of Congress. It’s an executive decision on enforcement. The Ninth agrees that Trump has the power to wind down DACA — because he CLEARLY does. Their issue with him is the manner in which he is doing it.

I cannot emphasize enough that this Supreme Court decision to not hear the case is no victory for DACA recipients or decent people who think that hundreds of thousands of people should not be deported just because their parents brought them here illegally.

It looks like we’re going to continue playing hot potato with the lives of 700,000 to 800,000 people who were brought to this country when they were children. DACA recipients are being toyed with. The Supreme Court just decided to let the game be played a little while longer.


https://abovethelaw.com/2018/02/supreme-court-no-victory-for-dreamers/?rf=1
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:45 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Yet here we are... a year and a half into the Trump administration, and DACA is still in effect.

Score another one for the Commie Anarchist Cheese-eater Americans!


Wrong. It's not "in effect." It's in limbo, thanks to commie-ass tactics to disrupt law enforcement, no matter how temporarily and no matter how detrimental the effects are on those they are supposedly designed to help (as demonstrated by the "occupy ICE" fools).

Like you, the Democrats are "playing" DACA candidates, just postponing their extradition date, hoping to get more votes from them in the meantime.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:47 am
@layman,
I think you your view of Trump's magical ability to defy the Cheese eating Commie American public and "hunt down" people "one by one" is a little overrated. I think he is bumbling toward a political morass of his own making. (I am ignoring the contradiction, you claim that Trump will both get rid of DACA and pass it).

But we will see.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 11:51 am
@layman,
I am curious Layman. How do you think the Commie Cheese-eater Anarchists are going to do in the midterm elections? I assume you do accept the fact that this matters.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 12:05 pm
@maxdancona,
I'll reply to this by pasting a post I made in another thread:

layman wrote:

Some excepts from Trump's latest tweets:

The Donald wrote:
I never pushed the Republicans in the House to vote for the Immigration Bill...we need more Republicans to win in Nov.

Republicans want Strong Borders and no Crime. Dems want Open Borders and are weak on Crime!

We can pass great legislation after the Red Wave!

Democrats have screwed themselves yet again, eh? They have refused to act on immigration because they want to keep the issue alive and think they will win on their "abolish ICE" platform in November.

Trump has outfoxed them again. Now he no longer wants to address the issue either, because he knows the Dems will lose votes in November over it.

As one republican congressman recently said: "Let's vote!"

As Trump recently noted, the Democratic call is "Let's make America weak again!"

That's MAWA for short, to fit on blue ballcaps.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 12:17 pm
@layman,
If there is a "Red Wave" I will admit that I am wrong. I didn't see the "Red Wedding" coming either.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2018 07:57 pm
I'm pasting this post here, too, just to warn you, Max. You might not be too safe in Mexico these days. Well, not that you ever would have been, but, I mean, at least you wouldn't have had to deal with the full military might of the USA. Then again, commies aint gunna be safe in this country either once Trump grabs absolute power. But if you time it just right, you might be able to move down there when we walk away, and even have a chance to exploit the state of chaos we leave behind for your own profit, eh?

layman wrote:

The hard-core commie-ass left has now taken over Mexico. AMLO is promising to help march central americans right up to the American border to help perpetrate commie infiltration into our country. The writing is on the wall. Trump will now have no choice but to invade Mexico with overwhelming force by land, air, and sea. Not that we really want that shithole, but ya gotta defend yourself, eh?

Quote:
Left-wing candidate wins Mexico presidential election

Lopez Obrador has presented himself as a champion of poor and rural Mexicans who would root out corruption, give scholarships or paid apprenticeships to youth, and increase support payments for the elderly. He's also promised to grant amnesties to some criminals amid a wave of violence that's the bloodiest seen in at least two decades...

But while Lopez Obrador has railed against Mexico's "mafia of power," he's saved some of his strongest words for Trump. Lopez Obrador has ripped the Trump administration's policy of separating families who cross the border illegally as "arrogant, racist and inhuman." He's also vowed to roll back some of outgoing President Enrique Pena Nieto's policies toward Central American migrants who cross Mexico's own southern border, saying that his government would no longer do Trump's "dirty work."


Clearly tantamount a declaration of war by Mexico. OK, then, let's get it ON!
 

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