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Christian Democrats?

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:31 am
cannistershot wrote:
Ok I wanted to let this one go, but I have got to know. How does religion hold us back as a people?


Because if you believe in the Bible then you are restricted in things that you allow yourself to believe or do.

For instance say that there is a study that comes out saying that they have found evidence of life on other planets. Automatically a Christian who believes in the Bible is not going to believe it because the Bible does not mention life on other planets in the creation story in Genesis or anywhere else. I count myself as one of them who is not going to believe it unless I see it for myself directly on a planet.

The way a democrat can be a Christian in this time in the US is to simply apply to motto of Jesus, "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and the things that are God's unto God." (Something like that) in other words keep your religious beliefs to yourself and don't try to force them on someone else through laws or other government things.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:33 am
cannistershot wrote:
It may not be scientific, but I am not a scientist.


You don't have to be. But if what you are doing is throwing your question up on a thread and counting the responses in order to prove something that you already believe (and let's stop pussyfooting around it, that something is that Democrats are not Christians, or maybe that they are ungodly or immoral) then you should prepare to be ridiculed.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:41 am
I think that I can give a yes or no answer, try me.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:45 am
Since you wanted the 'yes''s and 'no''s:

I'm a Christian, but since the Christian Democrats are far too conservative and rightish, I'm a member of the Social Democratic Party.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:52 am
If we find life on another planet I will belive that it is there, with a little proof of course. I think that that all depends on how you yourself interpret the words that you are reading.
Freeduck this is my point about turning ugly like I have said in a few of my posts I am not trying to prove anything to anyone except myself. I am in GA, part of the bible belt and in my area (and others that I have lived in) the main body of the church tends to lean (ok lean over) to the right. I am not saying that democrats are not christians, that is you trying to put words into my mouth, I am asking if they are out there. I have been into enough threads to see that we have a lot of democrats that belong to A2K and wanted to see the response. Since it seems to make people mad for me to tally the response vs. views I will keep that to myself.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 11:53 am
Thank you Walter!
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PKB
 
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Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 12:56 pm
cannistershot wrote:
Princess, it seems to me that most churches (I know that this will cause an uproar) at least in my area have a body of mostly republicans. However this may not be the case in other places.
Smog how is my telling someone that I am sorry a "subtle insult"?


cannistershot, you don't see a problem with religious organizations polarizing themselves with a party? This isn't like Unions backing Democrats or gun enthusiasts backing Republicans. Those are issue based.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:20 pm
cannistershot wrote:
Ok I wanted to let this one go, but I have got to know. How does religion hold us back as a people?


See, here ya go again, not asking what you mean! Rolling Eyes Unless you are including all religions? I thought this thread was specifically about christians...? You do recognise other religions, right? Or are you saying here that there is only one true religion?

From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary,
Quote:
Religion - n. 1a(1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance; 2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs and practices 3(archaic): scrupulous conformity, conscientiousness 4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith

Religious - v. 1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity 2: Of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances 3a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful 3b: fervent, zealous, devout


I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but the root of the word is latin for "to bind." This would imply that it does hold one, but includes binding as in knotting 2 together becoming one strand... And this seems true in all religions, including those we now think of as mythology, binding man with the divine... The gap seems for the most part to be manmade, too, ever notice that? Or do you disagree with that? The divine, it appears, has remained constant while we wandered out into the brave new worlds of technology and secular humanism and "I am God" spirituality. Then, when we realize how far we have come, man eitherresponds by fleeing further away, or to seeks to rebind him(her)self back to the source. That is common to all religions.

But what does this have to do with politics? You think that all who are religious share one set of beliefs? I think you already know that isn't true. What, then? Should one refuse to serve in goevernment and respect the prevailing social order when one disagrees on moral grounds? Wouldn't that leave only atheists to run things?

Here's a terrific essay on this: http://www.frontiernet.net/~kenc/relandpo.htm
Quote:
Emil Brunner, one of the great Christian ethicists of the 20th century, said that if we are to participate in politics, we have to do so in terms defined by current society for the role we play. We must operate with the standards of justice and law that prevail at that time and place. A Christian's duty is to introduce love into the interstices of the social network, to show mercy and compassion within the spaces of the institutional frameworks operating then and there.


The whole essay is fantastic, but that quote sums up my feelings regarding politics and religion.

Cannistershot, although you ask things in the darnedest cockeyed way, and omit huge segments of the American population in your generalizations (like, blacks, mostly christian and democratic in the south, like people in the most southern of states- Hawaii, who are primarily democrats, and the majority of christians in churches across this state are democrats if political) your question has served a very good purpose: to make people reevaluate their take on religion and what it means within the constrains of public service. I beseech every one of us democrats who happen to be christian to become more politically active and also, to be unashamed of your faith. The 2 activities don't cancel each other out, and are both necessary to keep society running smoothly. Jmo, fwiw.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:29 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Because some mentioned this, and with a few there seems to be the common ignorance of the world outsite the USA:

- there are no Christian Democrats in the UK,
- Christian Democrats are one of the (if not THE) biggest poltical movement (at the moment) in Europe,
- in Germany, we have Christian Democrtas ('Christian Democratic Union'), but not in Bavaria: there, this movement is called Christian Social Union. [The most conservative are the Bavarians (Catholic), while with the CDU the evangelical wing is a bit stronger and more 'liberal' than their Catholic counterpart.)

The EU-Commission ('cabinet') is in majority conservative - due to the fact of the majority of the Christian Democrats in the EU-parliament: 278 seats out of 732. [The Christian Democrats in EU are named European People's Party (Christian Democrats) and the British conservatives are -partly- a member of this group).


Walter, I meant to comment on this: thank you for the information about the Christian Democrat Party. I am extremely interested in how it all works elsewhere lately (particularly in Germany- my boyfriend is german, apolitical, but through him, I have become quite aware of how extremely uncouth, obnoxious, and ignorant Americans are in general when compared to more civilized people elsewhere in the world.) I hope to hear more about political machinations and their effectiveness elsewhere. My feelings are that the U.S. goevernment needs to be overhauled. I don't see it as a 4 year job, though, perhaps over the next century... Anyway, I thank you for light shed on this topic.

Mahalo nui loa, PP :wink:
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:40 pm
That isn't even a consideration to me, I don't see many religious organizations or religion in general backing Kerry or Bush. I know that smaller organizations back one or the other in public but that is another thing. As far as my feelings on this I don't know, I just think that any organization that operates in a tax free enviroment should be very careful.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:46 pm
cannistershot wrote:
That isn't even a consideration to me, I don't see many religious organizations or religion in general backing Kerry or Bush. I know that smaller organizations back one or the other in public but that is another thing. As far as my feelings on this I don't know, I just think that any organization that operates in a tax free enviroment should be very careful.


1) Which "that?

2) Have you looked for religious organizations or religion in general backing Kerry or Bush?

3) How would "religion" back a candidate?

4) "I know that smaller organizations back one or the other in public but that is another thing." Then how is it relevent to this debate topic?

5)"As far as my feelings on this I don't know, I just think that any organization that operates in a tax free enviroment should be very careful," meaning what, exactly?
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:52 pm
I don't see how I am "leaving people out" either you are a christian democrat or not. I have African-American friends from both parties some are democrats but not really religious on the other hand I have friends that are black-republicans (their self given title not mine) who are not very religious either.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:54 pm
cannistershot wrote:
Freeduck this is my point about turning ugly like I have said in a few of my posts I am not trying to prove anything to anyone except myself. I am in GA, part of the bible belt and in my area (and others that I have lived in) the main body of the church tends to lean (ok lean over) to the right. I am not saying that democrats are not christians, that is you trying to put words into my mouth, I am asking if they are out there. I have been into enough threads to see that we have a lot of democrats that belong to A2K and wanted to see the response. Since it seems to make people mad for me to tally the response vs. views I will keep that to myself.


Well, I've seen many threads that are uglier than this one, if that's any consolation.

If you really want to know if christian democrats exist (and you should have your answer by now) why not consider groups that typically vote democratic. Let's try hispanics. Most of them are catholic. Blacks. Almost entirely christian. The thing is that it should be obvious that there are many democrats that are christians, and many christians that are democrats.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:57 pm
Princess that was a reply for PKB I haven't learned how to pull the quotes and add them to my post so by the time I post 3 others have gone between.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:01 pm
Freeduck what exactly is ugly about my post? Break it down and show me. I don't see how defending myself from someone trying to put words into my mouth is ugly.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:04 pm
cannistershot wrote:
Freeduck what exactly is ugly about my post? Break it down and show me. I don't see how defending myself from someone trying to put words into my mouth is ugly.


Cannistershot, I didn't call your post ugly. I was implying that this thread hasn't really gotten ugly.

BTW, you can quote others posts by clicking the quote button on the right hand corner of the post you wish to quote.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:13 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
cannistershot wrote:
Freeduck what exactly is ugly about my post? Break it down and show me. I don't see how defending myself from someone trying to put words into my mouth is ugly.


Cannistershot, I didn't call your post ugly. I was implying that this thread hasn't really gotten ugly.

BTW, you can quote others posts by clicking the quote button on the right hand corner of the post you wish to quote.


Ok sorry about that, thanks for the info too.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:15 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
cannistershot wrote:
Freeduck what exactly is ugly about my post? Break it down and show me. I don't see how defending myself from someone trying to put words into my mouth is ugly.


Cannistershot, I didn't call your post ugly. I was implying that this thread hasn't really gotten ugly.

BTW, you can quote others posts by clicking the quote button on the right hand corner of the post you wish to quote.


Ok sorry about that, thanks for the info too.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:20 pm
No problem.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 02:20 pm
cannistershot wrote:
Princess that was a reply for PKB I haven't learned how to pull the quotes and add them to my post so by the time I post 3 others have gone between.


Doesn't mean you can't answer this:
Quote:
cannistershot wrote:
That isn't even a consideration to me, I don't see many religious organizations or religion in general backing Kerry or Bush. I know that smaller organizations back one or the other in public but that is another thing. As far as my feelings on this I don't know, I just think that any organization that operates in a tax free enviroment should be very careful.


1) Which "that?

2) Have you looked for religious organizations or religion in general backing Kerry or Bush?

3) How would "religion" back a candidate?

4) "I know that smaller organizations back one or the other in public but that is another thing." Then how is it relevent to this debate topic?

5)"As far as my feelings on this I don't know, I just think that any organization that operates in a tax free enviroment should be very careful," meaning what, exactly?
... Unless you are just speaking without knowing what you are saying... Idea
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