Mark writes
Quote:I guess the thing I don't fully understand is the 58 million people who voted for George Bush. Is it a fear based vote or is it based solely on the idea that Christians can only vote Republican, even if it is not in the best interest of the general population of the United States?
A Rasmussen poll recently cited their and other polls indicating that people who regularly went to church did favor George Bush by a good margin, but it was in no way unanimous. Conversely those indicating they rarely or never attended church favored Kerry by a similar margin. To assume that most Christians who voted for Bush are of the fundamentalist variety is absurd especially given the fact that the staunch fundamentalist comprise such a small number of Christians overall.
In my own Church we had no political preaching from the pulpit and we did not discuss it at church meetings or functions, but my sense was there were probably more Kerry supporters than Bush supporters in the congregation. I think among the more liberal denominations that could very well have been typical. We were in Houston a few weeks ago and had dinner with a couple of my husband's cousins and spouses, all staunch Southern Baptist--hardly a liberal group--and all staunch Kerry supporters. One sent us every Kerry supporting/Bush bashing e-mail that was tracking around the internet before the election.
My point: the issues that elected Bush were not (or were scarcely) religious but were based on on fundamental moral values, the economy, security/war matters, and character. Bush voters knew what they were getting. Kerry voters had no clue what they were getting but were willing to take a chance on anybody who wasn't Bush.
There were more people voting for something than those who were voting against something. In my opinion it's as simple as that.
ehBeth wrote:A radio commentator here said that American Christians tend to be Old Testament, pre-Christ, blood and guts, Christians, while globally, Christians tend to be more based in the New Testament of Christ.
An interesting divide, which seems to coincide what I read of Christians here.
Well, actually Christians got their name only because of Jesus Christ - and with him, the New Testament began.
(I wonder, what polls with church goers would have as results in Europe - in Germany, Protestants/Evangelicals go less than 8% to church, Catholics about 20%.)
Well to hear you guys talk, most of Europe was anti-Bush too
Foxfyre wrote:Well to hear you guys talk, most of Europe was anti-Bush too
Beides e.g. the left wing Labour government
Foxfyre wrote:Well to hear you guys talk, most of Europe was anti-Bush too
You didn't already know that?
Let's face it.
It's up to you. You are free, completely free in fact to read your Bible yet most of you fail completely to understand what you believe. It's true. Most of you are clueless as to the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Do you? Ask yourself that question right now and no cheating. You don't know. If you did know, you'd know for sure, without a doubt that you could not, at least under the current platform of the Republican party, vote Republican, for Bush or call yourself Republicans. It would be true to state that if God was partisan, He'd be a Republican. I have no doubt about that. But it's absolutely certain that if Jesus was partisan, He'd be Democrat. The Republican platform and ways is all about Old Testament values, rules, laws, tradition, beliefs, admonishments and such. But that is not Christianity, because Christianity is based on Jesus which is New Testament.
Don't get your panties in a wad for me telling you this. You already know this, you just are afraid to admit it. Most American ''Christians'' are afraid, even worse, lazy. Like I said, MOST do not know the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament so if someone says, ''it's in the Bible'', they believe them and follow them without looking things up on their own. Jesus said to feed the poor, heal the sick, make peace...turn the other cheek, do not judge, condemn, love thy neighbor, take care of the Earth....that's New Testament for ya and yeah, makes Jesus the biggest liberal of them all. He told you to sell everything, but have you? Your'e worried about a tax break so you can buy something for yourself, not give those without insurance health care, to buy more products for you and your family instead of clothe the poor, house the poor. We just learned 2 weeks ago that the US has killed 100,000 women and children in Iraq..in just 2 years mind you, you paid for it, supported their deaths and in fact confirmed last week you approved of it wholeheartedly. Would Jesus have been like you? It's true, Old Testament God was rather wrathful, vengeance oriented but Jesus, completely different story. And YOU tell us that you are Christians when you have made absolutely certain, to the world and to Jesus that you do not support Jesus' admonishments and teachings. Kinda sad for you.
Most of you freak out over ''Pro Choice'' and about unborn babies, yet at the same time you've killed 100,000 women and chidren in Iraq, you've allowed 1,100 of our soldiers to be killed and 10's of thousands of Iraqi soldiers. You ignored 100's of thousands of men, women and children in Africa while they were murdered and raped all because of their skin color....is that Jesus? No, that's not New Testament so you have to answer to God, Jesus and yourself...and we all know, eventually your own children. You voted Bush in who we know will dig up and ruin Alaska for oil...he's also revoked environmental legislation and agreements....is that a good steward of the Earth? Nope, that's not New Testament baby. You messed up didn't you? Nah, you don't have the courage required to say you messed up, yet you brag about how Christ died and suffered on a cross for you...and yet all you are asked to do is cast a ballot. Pretty sad on your part really, pretty sad on your pastor's part for not teaching you what the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament is.
Let me be plain. Ain't no way in hell that gay marriage trumps peace. Ain't no way in hell abortion trumps pro life all around. Ain't no way your need for oil trumps taking care of God's planet. And if it does, it means you are not a real Christian but an Old Testament follower which normally means Jewish. Not a thing wrong with that either. Just from now on admit your real faith and that you do not follow Christ. You don't.
You've got some 'splaining to do Lucy. Either now or at the Pearly Gates.
You want a gun. Fine. No one is really trying to take that away from you but I personally think following Christ is more important than a gun but hey, that's just me.
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:McGentrix wrote:dedicated to your religion?
puulleeze....
You had to dig way back for that one. :wink:
Re: Let's face it.
Atlas47 wrote:It's up to you. You are free, completely free in fact to read your Bible yet most of you fail completely to understand what you believe. It's true. Most of you are clueless as to the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Do you? Ask yourself that question right now and no cheating. You don't know. If you did know, you'd know for sure, without a doubt that you could not, at least under the current platform of the Republican party, vote Republican, for Bush or call yourself Republicans. It would be true to state that if God was partisan, He'd be a Republican. I have no doubt about that. But it's absolutely certain that if Jesus was partisan, He'd be Democrat. The Republican platform and ways is all about Old Testament values, rules, laws, tradition, beliefs, admonishments and such. But that is not Christianity, because Christianity is based on Jesus which is New Testament.
Don't get your panties in a wad for me telling you this. You already know this, you just are afraid to admit it. Most American ''Christians'' are afraid, even worse, lazy. Like I said, MOST do not know the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament so if someone says, ''it's in the Bible'', they believe them and follow them without looking things up on their own. Jesus said to feed the poor, heal the sick, make peace...turn the other cheek, do not judge, condemn, love thy neighbor, take care of the Earth....that's New Testament for ya and yeah, makes Jesus the biggest liberal of them all. He told you to sell everything, but have you? Your'e worried about a tax break so you can buy something for yourself, not give those without insurance health care, to buy more products for you and your family instead of clothe the poor, house the poor. We just learned 2 weeks ago that the US has killed 100,000 women and children in Iraq..in just 2 years mind you, you paid for it, supported their deaths and in fact confirmed last week you approved of it wholeheartedly. Would Jesus have been like you? It's true, Old Testament God was rather wrathful, vengeance oriented but Jesus, completely different story. And YOU tell us that you are Christians when you have made absolutely certain, to the world and to Jesus that you do not support Jesus' admonishments and teachings. Kinda sad for you.
Most of you freak out over ''Pro Choice'' and about unborn babies, yet at the same time you've killed 100,000 women and chidren in Iraq, you've allowed 1,100 of our soldiers to be killed and 10's of thousands of Iraqi soldiers. You ignored 100's of thousands of men, women and children in Africa while they were murdered and raped all because of their skin color....is that Jesus? No, that's not New Testament so you have to answer to God, Jesus and yourself...and we all know, eventually your own children. You voted Bush in who we know will dig up and ruin Alaska for oil...he's also revoked environmental legislation and agreements....is that a good steward of the Earth? Nope, that's not New Testament baby. You messed up didn't you? Nah, you don't have the courage required to say you messed up, yet you brag about how Christ died and suffered on a cross for you...and yet all you are asked to do is cast a ballot. Pretty sad on your part really, pretty sad on your pastor's part for not teaching you what the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament is.
Let me be plain. Ain't no way in hell that gay marriage trumps peace. Ain't no way in hell abortion trumps pro life all around. Ain't no way your need for oil trumps taking care of God's planet. And if it does, it means you are not a real Christian but an Old Testament follower which normally means Jewish. Not a thing wrong with that either. Just from now on admit your real faith and that you do not follow Christ. You don't.
You've got some 'splaining to do Lucy. Either now or at the Pearly Gates.
You want a gun. Fine. No one is really trying to take that away from you but I personally think following Christ is more important than a gun but hey, that's just me.
God would be neither, he would not waste his time with politics.
